How can Catholics vote for Joe Biden

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Dracarys

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Regardless of how any Catholic feels about President Trump I do not see how they could vote for Joe Biden. Most candidates are willing to wait for a Supreme Court Justice to retire to nominate a candidate. I think Biden has made it clear that he will pack the supreme court with liberal justices till he gets his way. Biden claims to be catholic, but he is an ardent supporter of abortion. He has not excluded even partial birth abortion. Even our very liberal Pope Francis has come out against this procedure. I am curious as to how Catholic Biden supporters can justify their stance.
 
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DeniseNY said:
There have been multiple recent threads on this. You might want to try the search function.
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I scanned some of those, but I posted this because many of those degenerated into a bash President Trump debate. If you can’t vote for President Trump than write in a candidate. But given that Biden seems willing, ready, and able to proactively support abortion I don’t understand how any Catholic can cast a ballot for him. It is not just about Roe vs. Wade. The supreme court may hear numerous cases such as having tax payers fund abortions or Planned Parenthood.

It really is not as complicated or nuanced as some posters describe. A vote for Joe Biden will go a long way to support, aid, and continue abortion. The Catholic Church considers abortion a grievous sin. Given that simple fact I think it is morally wrong for any Catholic to vote for Joe Biden.
 
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this isn’t casual discussion, and has been moved to social justice.
 
Dracarys said:
about President Trump
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I’m curious to know how many are aware that President Trump is the first President in 39 years to not start a new war. Or, that President Trump was nominated for 4 Nobel Peace Prizes.

Or, that Joe Biden voted in favor of the Iraq War when Biden was a Senator.



“Sometimes it’s easy to miss the things that don’t happen,” said Tucker Carlson this week. “We are living in an unusual period in American history where we are living under an administration that hasn’t started a new war. That hasn’t happened in more than 40 years.“

  1. Trump first was nominated by Norwegian Parliament member Christian Tybring-Gjedde, who cited Trump’s successful peace deal between Israel and the UAE.
  2. His second nomination came only a short time later, from Magnus Jacobsson, for his “historic Kosovo-Serbia Peace deal.”
  3. In late September, Trump was nominated for a third time for his ‘Trump Doctrine.’"
  4. 4th: President Trump has been nominated a fourth time for specific accomplishments.
    A Finnish member of the European Parliament, Laura Huhtasaari, wrote that he should be honored “in recognition of his endeavors to end the era of endless wars, construct peace by encouraging conflicting parties for dialogue and negotiations, as well as underpin internal cohesion and stability of his country.” And there are the “historic peace deals” involving Israel, the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain.
 
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I’m not even American and I don’t have a dog in this fight (nor, incidentally, do I have the luxury of being able to vote for pro-life candidates where I live), but I can already tell you what will happen in his thread:

-some people will point out that Donald Trump isn’t exactly a shining example of Christian morality himself

-others will answer that abortion takes precedence over all other issues due to the sheer scale of what happens

-yet others will point you to the USCCB’s voting guidelines and say that it’s not a sin to vote for a candidate who happens to be pro-choice as long as you don’t vote for them because they’re pro-choice

-others will disagree and assert that it is always a grave sin to vote for someone who supports abortion (and possibly be then accused of thinking they know better than the magisterium)

-death penalty will be brought in at some point and people will ask whether one can be authentically pro-life if one supports death penalty

-someone will say that Biden at least goes to Mass, or that Biden has the nerve to go to Mass, and trigger a debate about whether or not he should receive communion

-everything from the candidates’ personal morality or perceived lack thereof to their bank accounts and personal beliefs will be thrown in and it will end up in posters accusing each other of being far-left or alt-right.

We’ve already been over all this, I promise. There can’t possibly be anything new or productive to say about it.
 
OddBird said:
We’ve already been over all this, I promise. There can’t possibly be anything new or productive to say about it.
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With the ability to pack the court, codify Roe vs Wade, and having a vehement pro abortion running mate Biden is in a strong position to give support to pro abortion issues. Most of the things you listed are superfluous arguements to be discussed in another thread. The bottom line is will you as a Catholic vote for a president who will protect, maintain, further, and strengthen abortion?
 
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Dracarys said:
The bottom line is will you as a Catholic vote for a president who will protect, maintain, further, and strengthen abortion?
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As @Fauken pointed out, I don’t get to vote in this election, so…
Dracarys said:
Most of the things you listed are superfluous arguements to be discussed in another thread.
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I get what you say, I really do, but this kind of thread rarely stays on topic.
 
OddBird said:
I get what you say, I really do, but this kind of thread rarely stays on topic.
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Maybe because people intentionally bring it off topic to dilute this important issue. You are doing that now.
 
Most of the following will occur if Joe Biden/Kamala Harris become President:
  • packing the courts with ADDITIONAL Federal Judges (on top of the ones already there) who suppress the right for Christians to live our faith and who invent their own laws from the bench
  • the elimination of pro-life doctors and other pro-life businesses, as doctors and their assistants will be forced to participate in abortion, and Christian bakers will be forced to participate in anti-Christian-like activity
  • forcing Catholic organizations to hire those who publicly live lives in contradiction of the faith
  • reduction in charter schools, and restrictions on homeschooling
  • eliminate your Blue Cross, Independent Health, and other private health insurance
  • making Middle America irrelevant in Presidential Elections, as the Electoral College is eliminated. Campaigning and policy-setting would then mostly occur for NY, LA, Chicago, and other big cities.
  • an increase in poverty with crushing business regulations
  • unnecessary regulations that force rationing of heat/air conditioning and water (please see California), reduction in airplanes and farm animals.
  • the additions of Washington D.C. and Puerto Rico as states (adding 4 Senators), giving Democrats a close-to-permanent stronghold in the Senate
  • Biden wants to give more money to Iraq, the largest funder of terrorism
  • reduced funding for police
  • a weaker military
  • the loss of millions of energy & manufacturing jobs
  • increased taxes, as the Biden/AOC/Harris “Green New Deal” has been estimated to cost $94 trillion over the next 10 years, which would be $60,000 per year per household, including adjustments you’d have to make to your house, office buildings, etc.
 
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I don’t think that was the question he was asking. I have the same question, regardless of the opposition, how can Catholics vote for a Catholic who supports the things Joe Biden supports. This is not a thread about Trump, it is solely about Biden. His stance on abortion, his stance on the use of embryonic stem cell research, and euthanasia.

His position on same sex marriage, even to the point of being the “minister” at two such attempts. Joe’s position on gender fluidity, he said an 8 year old child should be allowed to transition if the child feels he/she wants to! It’s an 8 year old - they can’t decide if the want oreos or chocolate chip cookies most of the time.

Biden vows to raise taxes but lies about who will have to pay the raised taxes. It is clear on his website who will suffer from raised taxes. Biden vows to go after the Little Sisters of the Poor, Catholic Little Sisters of the Poor only because they had the guts to fight against Obamacare, which I guess is going to be called Bidencare.

How can a Catholic support another Catholic in all those sins? Doesn’t that somehow make one complicit to a degree with those sins?
 
Dracarys said:
I think Biden has made it clear that he will pack the supreme court with liberal justices till he gets his way.
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False.

Joe Biden is not in favor of expanding the court. He stated the he is not a fan of court packing.

What he did say is that he’d like a bipartisan panel of constitutional scholars to study issues around the courts in general.
Dracarys said:
Regardless of how any Catholic feels about President Trump
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No. Stop right there.

People have very legitimate issues with Trump and others in the Republican party that have nothing to do with “feelings” and cannot be summarily dismisses with “regardless”.
Dracarys said:
I am curious as to how Catholic Biden supporters can justify their stance.
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Being against Trump and for Biden are not the same thing.
 
Dracarys said:
Regardless of how any Catholic feels about President Trump I do not see how they could vote for Joe Biden.
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I don’t see how a Catholic could vote for Donald Trump or Joe Biden, quite honestly. The only person in this election I feel I can in good conscience support is Brian Carroll of the American Solidarity Party.
Most candidates are willing to wait for a Supreme Court Justice to retire to nominate a candidate. I think Biden has made it clear that he will pack the supreme court with liberal justices till he gets his way.
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How has he made it clear? He’s repeatedly refused to weigh in on the subject. How is that “making it clear”?
Biden claims to be catholic, but he is an ardent supporter of abortion. He has not excluded even partial birth abortion.
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This is a more valid point. Again, I have difficulty understanding how a Catholic could vote for Biden or Trump in good conscience… but I suppose everyone is to their own.
 
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