How can Catholics vote for Joe Biden

[CheeseCake]

This is a very long response but these are a few of the reasons I voted for Biden:

Criminal Justice:
Eliminate the Death Penalty - 1/9 people sentenced for death row have been found to be innocent. and there is no telling how many more might have been innocent and killed. instead, these individuals will serve life sentences without probation, this would eliminate innocent people dieing in death row and give them more time to prove their innocence and be freed

Clemency Power for Non-Violent Crimes

Treatment for those who use drugs not incarceration - rather than incarcerate people for drug use they should be diverted to drug courts and be given proper treatment. This will reduce the population of prisons and reduce federal spending on incarceration. These savings will then be reinvested in the communities impacted by mass incarceration.

Criminal Justice System focused on Redemption and Rehabilitation

$20 billion competitive grant program- This is to spur states to change from simply incarceration of criminals to prevention of crimes. It is again focused on eliminating mandatory minimums for non-violent crimes, institute earned credit programs, and taking other steps to reduce incarceration rates without impacting public safety.

Education:

Fix Funding Gap - Estimated $23 million annual funding gap between white and non-white school districts today and gaps persist between high and low income districts. Biden will increase funding to low-income families.

Improve teacher diversity

Build innovative schools in low-income communities

Disabilities Education Act - Signed in 1990, the Act promised to provide 40% of the extra cost of special education. Currently the federal government fails to live up to that commitment and only pays 14% of that cost. The Biden Administration hopes to create the means for the Government to fulfill the obligation within ten years.

Taxes:

Raise Taxes for the wealthy - The Biden Administration will raise taxes on the wealthy and NOT for anyone making less than $400,000. Big corporations and wealthy Americans must pay their fair share and should no longer be able to escape paying taxes. The Biden administration will impose 15% minimum tax on book income so that corporations can not get away with paying no taxes. They will raise the corporate tax rate to 28 percent and require a true minimum tax on all foreign earnings of United States companies located overseas. 21%. Which is twice the rate of the Trump offshore tax rate and will apply to all income.

Tax Relief for working families - While increasing taxes for the rich Biden hopes to help the working class he will expand the Child Tax Credit to help working families increasing the CTC to $3,000 per child over the age of 6 and $3,600 per child under 6.

Climate Change:
100% Clean Energy Economy by 2050 - Biden will sign a series of executive orders that will establish goals to decrease carbon emissions. They will make investments in clean energy, climate research and innovation. And will incentivize the rapid deployment of clean energy innovations across the economy.

 

[Dracarys]

For me, I leave such matters to law enforcement. I do not hold the sins of the son, if they are found, against the father. So this issue would not affect how I see the election.

That’s convenient for a Biden supporters to say. As a citizen I take my vote seriously. Even if I was a liberal I would want and expect Biden to explain this.

 

[pnewton]

As a citizen I take my vote seriously.

As do most, I am sure. I am glad your vote is serious, but it is not reasonable to think anyone that disagrees with you is not. That would be elevating one’s own opinion way too high.

 

[Dracarys]

OK: so, when Trump appoints justices, it’s “his legal prerogative”. When Biden will do the same, it’s “packing the court.” And you’re not seeing the bias in your assertions he

If he does pack the court it will be the first time this has been done in recent history. Of course the reason he will do it is to defend and support abortion. This should give a serious Catholic concern.

Those who were considering Biden should have been told how he stood, NOT that they don’t have a right to know. I find that offensive.

 

[Dracarys]

As do most, I am sure. I am glad your vote is serious, but it is not reasonable to think anyone that disagrees with you is not. That would be elevating one’s own opinion way too high.

As a citizen you can vote for who you want. I just want to know how given Biden’s rabid support of abortion, and the many other harmful things he has threatened to do why a Catholic wild vote for him.

What woderful things do you think Biden will do to make up for his stance on abortion? Since you are on this forum I assume you are Catholic, and are anti abortion. What terrible things did President Trump do to make you go for Biden?

 

[CheeseCake]

I think what they are saying is that when deciding on who we should vote for the President we should look at the candidate’s policies and stances. We should not base our decisions on a candidate’s family. As when the candidate enters the Presidency it will be the candidate’s own policies, morals, and ethics that will guide the nation, not the actions of their son.

 

[stpurl]

As there are Catholic members of my family who voted for Mr. Biden, I can give you some of the reasons they gave me.

One: Mr Trump is unhinged, crude, personally offensive, and although he supported pro-life actions he “did it for himself’. IOW, they didn’t like the man’s presentation and tried to justify any ‘good’ actions as not being done from ‘proper motives.

Two: Mr. Biden and the Democrats are more ‘Christlike” and want to care for the poor and assure people of a safe environment, care of the earth, social justice, plus he has ‘more experience’ in politics and will be better perceived by other countries.

Three: With regard to abortion, nobody in 50 years has changed anything, the Republicans are ‘all talk’, and anyway, all the Democratic polls and media polls show abortion is going down here in the US anyway. Plus we need to consider women; they need to have control of THEIR bodies. We need to stop living in male-controlled repressive societies. And bringing an unwanted child into the world is more hurtful than a peaceful abortion when it’s only a clump of cells or tissue and not human anyway. As for places like Africa, those people NEED contraception so they don’t die of famines due to too many people and not enough food. Again, it’s more Christlike to care for the people we HAVE.

Mind you, I don’t agree with any of the above. I think a lot is due to a kind of brainwashing (if you repeat a lie often enough it seems like ‘fact’), and if you respond with enough hateful invective at the drop of a hat you often intimidate people into silence. But again, the above are the ‘reasons’ at least some Catholics gave for their votes for Mr. Biden.

 

[pnewton]

What terrible things did President Trump do to make you go for Biden?

While I have said I would not vote for Trump, I never said who I voted for. Only a handful of my family know. I respect the process and the secrecy of the voting booth. I do not vote for Trump based largely on lack of character and moral fortitude, among other things.

It was a close thing for me precisely because I do not consider Biden “rabidly” pro-abortion, based on his voting records and his careful wording during the campaign. This is not up for debate with me, as I have seen it all already. Four years ago, I never even considered Hillary Clinton.

 

[CheeseCake]

Gorgias:

OK: so, when Trump appoints justices, it’s “his legal prerogative”. When Biden will do the same, it’s “packing the court.” And you’re not seeing the bias in your assertions he

If he does pack the court it will be the first time this has been done in recent history. Of course the reason he will do it is to defend and support abortion. This should give a serious Catholic concern.

Those who were considering Biden should have been told how he stood, NOT that they don’t have a right to know. I find that offensive.

Biden did say where he stood,

“I would not get into court packing. We had three justices. Next time around, we lose control, they add three justices. We begin to lose any credibility the court has at all,” (Last Year)

“It’s not about court packing, There’s a number of other things that our constitutional scholars have debated and I’ve looked to see what recommendations that commission might make.”

“Presidents come and go. Supreme Court justices stay for generations.”

“The last thing we need to do is turn the Supreme Court into just a political football, whoever has the most votes gets whatever they want,”

So what can we conclude?

1. Biden does not support packing the court
2. Presidents only stay for 4 years (And possibly a second term) But Supreme Court justices stay for life so choosing a Supreme Court Justice is a much bigger deal.
3. Biden believes that the President elected should choose the Supreme Court Justice
4. Trump decided to elect a Supreme Court Justice anyway before the election
5. Biden now feels that the Judicial System has been politicized and swayed in favor of Republicans.
6. Despite saying he did not support packing in the past, he now feels as though he should pack the courts in response to Trump’s choice of a Supreme Court Justice

So Biden was never in favor of packing the courts but feels like he should now because he thinks it will rebalance the courts.

That is Biden’s stance on court-packing.

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

You don’t have to get it yourself. Just tell us all where we can find it. You must know. You’re making all these claims. They can’t be unfounded…surely.

More disingenuous argument from you. As a member of the voting public I want answers from Biden about why a country unfriendly to the U.S. Paid his son $10 million.

That’s the cart before the horse, Dracarys. First you need some evidence that this happened, then you can question the details. It really is no good simply repeating what someone else has claimed without any proof. And I don’t mean proof of wrongdoing. I mean proof that something has ocurred which requires investigation.

Do you have any evidence whatsoever? Or do you think that constant repetition makes it more likely to be true?

 

[Freddy]

As there are Catholic members of my family who voted for Mr. Biden, I can give you some of the reasons they gave me.

I can only congratulate you on listing those reasons, even though you would personally reject every one. I think it’s a great step in the right direction that someone can explain the views of the opposition even whilst completely disagreeing with them.

I’m sure that you respect the members of your family as people even when you are 100% against the arguments they’d use for voting the way they did. And I’m sure you woukd do all you could to have them change their mind - whilst maintaining that respect.

I think America is divided at the moment. I sincerely hope that the two sides can find a way to work together. I am reminded of the letter that Bush left for Clinton on the Resolute desk when he finally left the White House. In part, it said:

“Your success now is our country’s success,” he wrote. “I am rooting hard for you.”

And the younger Bush leaving a note for Obama as his father did for Clinton:

“There will be trying moments. The critics will rage. But, you will have an Almighty God to comfort you, a family who loves you, and a country that is pulling for you, including me.”

The letter has been something of a tradition since Reagan’s presidency. Unfortunately I can’t honestly see it continuing this time around. Let’s hope that you guys get back to a position where it can continue.

 

[EssentialBeing]

so you are saying that your subjective insistence that reality is merely subjective implies that reality is really subjective for you. the more people you can convince that objective reality is merely subjective the more you can convince that no objective standards need to be recognized.

I am suggesting that they work in combination, in uni sen as one does not exist without the other. An objective truth is as much a combination of subjectivity as it is objectivity, truth is in the eye of the beholder & that is a matter of relative perspective. Inside the bubble we see one truth, however we can not dismiss that those outside the bubble have a different truth.

Never did i suggest that we should throw out objective truth, I only suggest we incorporate subjectivity with it. The equation would seem to be more complete if we calculate both rather than simply dismiss one or the other

So politically speaking politicians can lie all they want and you will continue to vote for them because there is no way to objectively check their lies. Their lies are merely subjective truths as far as you are concerned.

It has been well established that politicians lie because of competition, they will mold themselves to suite the vote. A win at all cost attitude has everything to do with our competitive nature & very little to do with objectivity or subjectivity.

 

[LilyM]

pnewton:

Or, maybe he is just following the Catholic teaching on rash judgement and how best to avoid it, as listed in the Catechism. Just an idea.

Judgement is your word. I just want an explanation. Maybe Hunter Biden has some secret talent that the Chinese are willing to pay $10 million for. Or maybe instead of talent it’s being the son of a VP.

I wonder how Ivanka and Trump’s other children have made their millions since 2016 when most of them have no discernible talents beyond being children of a President?

 

[pnewton]

There are a lot of examples of untalented people making money off parents simply being known. What is a Kardashian, by the way?

(No, @(name removed by moderator), this is not another DS9 reference).

 

[Gorgias]

If he does pack the court it will be the first time this has been done in recent history.

Explain to me, then, if you would, what actions would consist in “packing the court”. And, even further, if you please, how Trump’s actions weren’t identical to what you perceive as “court packing.”

If all you mean is “I like the folks who Trump nominates but dislike the kinds of folks whom I presume Biden will nominate”, then just say that.

 

[pnewton]

Why are people already conceding the Georgia run-off election to the Democrats? With a Senate majority, no extra judges will even be considered. In the unlikely event there is an opening, it would need to be some sort of compromise candidate.

Those who were considering Biden should have been told how he stood, NOT that they don’t have a right to know. I find that offensive.

I have a hard time grasping the idea of why this of all things would be offensive.

 

[OKComputer]

This Catholic did. I voted for Trump in 2016, but I reluctantly voted for Biden this time around. No, I’m not happy with his stance on abortion or gay marriage, but since conservatives got control of the supreme court, I didn’t think his views would effect much. I also agree with many of his other policies.

 

[Thrstypirate]

Not sure which one you are talking about.

 

[JimG]

Court packing means expanding the Court to more than nine Justices, so that a sitting president can then fill those extra slots with candidates to his liking, in order to offset existing Justices whose opinions he may not like. This is what FDR tried to do in 1937 but was unsuccessful.

 

[Freddy]

Court packing means expanding the Court to more than nine Justices, so that a sitting president can then fill those extra slots with candidates to his liking, in order to offset existing Justices whose opinions he may not like. This is what FDR tried to do in 1937 but was unsuccessful.

It seems nonsensical to an outsider that being on the Supreme Court is a lifetime position. Seems like something like a 12 year limit which would overlap a 2 term presidency would be beneficial for the country. And I can’t understand that the limit on numbers isn’t fixed. If Biden stacks it then you’ll end up bumbing the numbers up every presidency.

The need to do the second seems a function of the first.