How can I be charitable without being a doormat

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Ok, I know people often criticize me for not knowing how to deal with other people, so it is very hard for me to post this. But I really need some guidance and hope people will take me seriously.

I went to bible study last night. This is my fourth year going to this bible study. There is a lady there that is new this year and I have seen her a total of 3 times in my life. The details of the conversation are not important but the point is.

When I got to bible study, I was late and I sat beside this lady. She started chewing me out over something petty (well… petty to me) She was very rude and the bible study teacher even put her hands over her mouth to contain her laughter. I didn’t say anything because I was trying to think of something assertive. So the class went on and a couple of times, this lady just stared me down as if she wanted to kill me. So finally I said ‘What?’ so she stopped. Well, the class was wrapping up and she was leaving early and on her way out she got right in my face and said ‘I won’t be putting up with this from you next week and I mean it’. So as she walked away, I let out ‘Don’t bully me’

So I stayed late so I could talk to the bible teacher alone. And I asked the bible teacher ‘Is it me or is the way she talked to me inappropriate?’. The teacher said yes she was inappropriate but…’ and the teacher went on to explain that she had a conversation with this lady while I was not around and this lady was very offended about something I did. The baffling thing is, what I did to offend her was totally unrelated to why she chewed me out.

Now that the bible study teacher explained to me what I did to offend her, I am willing to try to stop that behaviour. If anything, the main reason I am willing to stop that behaviour is because I respect the teacher enough to help keep her classes running smoothly.

However, here is my problem. I am petrified this lady will chew me out again. And I do NOT want to be humiliated again in front of everyone. It has been my experience when someone is busy chewing someone else out, they do not listen to reason. And I do not know how to handle it.

Part of me wants to say ‘When you can be polite I will listen to you’ but to me honest, I doubt she will listen. Anyone who gets in your face, makes a rude comment and leaves before you can say anything obviously does NOT care to listen.

The only other thing I can think of (which I know will make her mad), is to look at the floor when she speaks to me.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

 

[LightBound]

You go back to the Bible Study as if it never happened. If she starts up again, you interrupt her ranting right there by holding up your hand in the “stop” manner (palm outward, fingers spread) and tell her to STOP right now. You inform her you will not tolerate her belittling you in front of others. Let her know that if she has a concern with you, you’ll gladly discuss it with her in private (or with your priest present, if she’s that unstable), but under no circumstances is she to come unhinged in front of you and others again. Be polite, but be as firm and assertive as you possibly can. She needs to learn that kind of behavior is totally unacceptable, because if she pulls that on the wrong person sometime, and it could get her hurt (road rage, a stranger that cuts in front of her, etc), so dealing with her directly about it and making sure she knows she cannot go around doing that could save her life or physical well-being sometime.

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

Good advice from Lightbound. Another way to word it might be, “Excuse me, but this is not an appropriate conversation to have in the middle of our bible study. If you want to talk to me about something, we can talk when the class is over.” And then after the group is over, if she approaches you with anything other than a respectful tone, interrupt her and say, “I will have this conversation with you only if you can speak to me respectfully.” I know you are afraid that she won’t listen to you, but it doesn’t really matter if she listens or not. You just walk away.

Is the teacher of this class a real teacher? Does she have authority over the group? If so, she needs to take action if this happens again. She can’t just sit idly by and giggle. You can say what treatment YOU won’t accept, but she should be able to state the rules/expectations of behavior for the group. You might want to speak to her ahead of time, and tell her that if there is a disruption in class again, you are going to say, “___” and tell her that you’re hoping she will affirm that statement. Ask her if she would be willing to back you up by mentioning that personal conversations or issues need to be taken up in private, and not in the middle of the class, which is disruptive to the group and unfair to you. Really, if this woman continues to be disruptive, she shouldn’t be allowed to continue in the group.

 

[Bill_7154]

Does anyone have any suggestions?

You could sit there and listen to what she has to say and then when she is finished smile and say something like "That was wonderful. It was sooo wonderful that I can barely contain myself from applauding you. Could you PPPPPLLLEEAAASSSEEE repeat that wonderful speach for me because it was like music to my ears! You have made my day, I can’t thank you enough! The love and warmth you just brought to this room is so comforting, may I give you a hug to thank you for saying all of that to me in front of the entire class?

Then again, that might be wrong to do. Maybe you could in all seriousness say to her “Jesus has taught me to turn the other cheek, I’m willing to allow you to repeat all of that if you wish.”

I don’t believe this would make you a doormat in any way. And it will proably teach her a lesson that she has not yet learned in life, then everyone she deals with from then on will benefit. I don’t know if I could pull it off, I just thought of it. But if I’m faced with a similar situation I might try it. It would proably allow me personal growth as well.

God Bless,
Bill

 

[cmscms]

You could sit there and listen to what she has to say and then when she is finished smile and say something like "That was wonderful. It was sooo wonderful that I can barely contain myself from applauding you. Could you PPPPPLLLEEAAASSSEEE repeat that wonderful speach for me because it was like music to my ears! You have made my day, I can’t thank you enough! The love and warmth you just brought to this room is so comforting, may I give you a hug to thank you for saying all of that to me in front of the entire class?

There is NO way I could pull that off with out being totally sarcastic and a smarty pants. I think it would just escalate the whole issue. Don’t put such great ideas in my head, I just might do it

 

[cmscms]

Is the teacher of this class a real teacher? Does she have authority over the group? If so, she needs to take action if this happens again. She can’t just sit idly by and giggle. You can say what treatment YOU won’t accept, but she should be able to state the rules/expectations of behavior for the group. You might want to speak to her ahead of time, and tell her that if there is a disruption in class again, you are going to say, “___” and tell her that you’re hoping she will affirm that statement. Ask her if she would be willing to back you up by mentioning that personal conversations or issues need to be taken up in private, and not in the middle of the class, which is disruptive to the group and unfair to you. Really, if this woman continues to be disruptive, she shouldn’t be allowed to continue in the group.

The teacher is a volunteer. And I have been around her enough to know, she does NOT like confrontation. I suspect, the teacher will not do anything unless it gets out of hand.

And this is where I am swallowing a lot of pride. The behaviour I originally did to offended this person, is something that (and it is embarrassing for me to admit) has offend others and the teacher is aware. Whenever it was brought to my attention in the past, it was not brought up in a serious manner. It was brought up more like a joke and there were people in the bible study who actually told me they loved this behaviour. I suspect deep down, the teacher may be a bit relieved that this happened because now it is out in the open and she can actually tell me in a serious tone to stop.

I want to be a good christian and consider others feelings and stop the original behaviour that offended people. And I admit, it won’t be easy but I am willing to work on it. What kills me is I saw the lady who chewed on me do the EXACT same things as I did that. For some reason, when I do them it offends her

If someone who has been coming to the bible study for 3 years blew up at me like that, I would be more understanding because they have 3 years of resentment. But for the new girl who has only seen me 3 times in her life, I think her reaction was over the top.

Also, I REALLY have to wonder how she could chew me out for something TOTALLY different and expect me to stop the behaviour that actually offended her Is this what they called passive aggressive?

As for the teacher, I really think all I can do is ask her what she intends on doing and respect her if she says she will do nothing.

 

[underacloud]

Avoid her if you can for now. If she seeks you out, be polite, don’t engage in argument or sarcasm, but you could say something like “I’m sorry if I’ve offended you in any way, but I hope we can move forward”. (if you have defintiely done something to offend her, which you seem to acknowledge, this is even more appropriate)

Don’t worry about looking like a doormat. People will respect you more if you can retain a calm and polite manner. If she is aggressive and inappropriate, people will see it for what it is. However, if you become aggressive back, people may think you’re both fools.

 

[Usige]

If she gets on you again I would politely interrupt and say something like “please excuse us for interrupting the discussion. We should step outside to discuss this privately.” After that indicate that she proceed you to a private location. This will let others know that you are aware the situation needs to be handled and that you are taking steps to do so. It also let’s her know that it is inappropriate and disruptive. If she chooses not to talk privately then you have shown you have made the effort and it is they who do not wish to discuss it in a charitable manner

 

[odile53]

The next time you attend this class, before class, inform this woman that the two of you need to speak privately with each other after class. Don’t engage her further before class. After class, step outside with her and ask her exactly what the problem is that she has with you, and listen to her response. Make a sincere response to it if it is a valid complaint, but do not listen to anything that is verbally abusive.

Then tell her that you would appreciate it if in the future she has any problems with you, that she discuss it with you privately and directly.

Her problem is not being passive-aggressive. It is aggression, bolstered by either your absence or the fact that other people are around. In other words, it is cowardice.

 

[ringil]

There is NO way I could pull that off with out being totally sarcastic and a smarty pants. I think it would just escalate the whole issue. Don’t put such great ideas in my head, I just might do it

Yeah, me neither. I love turning on the “sarcastic, smarty pants” routine. It’s my favorite.

 

[Do_Good_Then_Go]

Avoid her if you can for now. If she seeks you out, be polite, don’t engage in argument or sarcasm, but you could say something like “I’m sorry if I’ve offended you in any way, but I hope we can move forward”. (if you have defintiely done something to offend her, which you seem to acknowledge, this is even more appropriate)

Don’t worry about looking like a doormat. People will respect you more if you can retain a calm and polite manner. If she is aggressive and inappropriate, people will see it for what it is. However, if you become aggressive back, people may think you’re both fools.

I like this approach. It’s always better to apologise for upsetting someone, whether it was intentional or not and whether you knew you’d been out of line or not.

Try not to think of it in terms of “well, she did the same thing or worse” and (understandably) get annoyed about that, think of it in terms of staying polite and reasonable. The more you are able to stay calm and in control while sincerely apologising for hurting someone’s feelings or being a bit thoughtless or whatever it is you did (or the other person imagines you did), the more ridiculous and unreasonable the other seems. Not that you should be doing this to prove a point, but it will in fact prove a point and people will in fact respect you more. If there are no people around to see, you’ll still respect yourself more.

We all can control how we react to situations, no use getting worked up over something that is relatively minor in the grand scheme of things. Being gracious is not being a doormat or avoiding confrontation. Being slow to take offence is not being a doormat. It’s actually a lot more difficult to do this than to mutter under your breath or attack them verbally in return for something they’ve done. If someone is being passive aggressive or just plain unpleasant and uncharitable, it reflects a lot more on them than it does on you.

 

[Groo]

I would use humor, but in a gentle way.

For example, if you are both single (and you are male) ask her out in front of the class with a smile. Tell her she could use some fun in her life and playfully keep pushing when she rejects you. That should get the class on your side. All with a friendly smile.

Or do your best Stallone impression, ‘you want a piece of me?’ Again, in a gentle humorous way.

She must be hurting terribly on the inside to treat you this way.

 

[camerong]

Can you contact her and try to defuse the situation before hand? Most people are really not that rude–she must have been extremely offended, and maybe she is going through some difficult situation, or really is seeing this in an entirely different light than you are. I think the most loving and charitable thing to do is not to be sarcastic or passive, but try to kindly address the situation. Be willing to apologize even if you think you’re the injured party. Part of what you’re doing here is softening her heart–once softened, she can be more objective about the situation.

Maybe she’s just being a witch and this will have no effect, but at least you will have tried. Maybe, however, you will discover that she is going through a very serious trial, and someone reaching out to her in this way will be a huge blessing for the both of you.

 

[Crescentinus]

I suggest using some tough love.

 

[TEPO]

Ok, I know people often criticize me for not knowing how to deal with other people, so it is very hard for me to post this. But I really need some guidance and hope people will take me seriously.

I went to bible study last night. This is my fourth year going to this bible study. There is a lady there that is new this year and I have seen her a total of 3 times in my life. The details of the conversation are not important but the point is.

When I got to bible study, I was late and I sat beside this lady. She started chewing me out over something petty (well… petty to me) She was very rude and the bible study teacher even put her hands over her mouth to contain her laughter. I didn’t say anything because I was trying to think of something assertive. So the class went on and a couple of times, this lady just stared me down as if she wanted to kill me. So finally I said ‘What?’ so she stopped. Well, the class was wrapping up and she was leaving early and on her way out she got right in my face and said ‘I won’t be putting up with this from you next week and I mean it’. So as she walked away, I let out ‘Don’t bully me’

So I stayed late so I could talk to the bible teacher alone. And I asked the bible teacher ‘Is it me or is the way she talked to me inappropriate?’. The teacher said yes she was inappropriate but…’ and the teacher went on to explain that she had a conversation with this lady while I was not around and this lady was very offended about something I did. The baffling thing is, what I did to offend her was totally unrelated to why she chewed me out.

Now that the bible study teacher explained to me what I did to offend her, I am willing to try to stop that behaviour. If anything, the main reason I am willing to stop that behaviour is because I respect the teacher enough to help keep her classes running smoothly.

However, here is my problem. I am petrified this lady will chew me out again. And I do NOT want to be humiliated again in front of everyone. It has been my experience when someone is busy chewing someone else out, they do not listen to reason. And I do not know how to handle it.

Part of me wants to say ‘When you can be polite I will listen to you’ but to me honest, I doubt she will listen. Anyone who gets in your face, makes a rude comment and leaves before you can say anything obviously does NOT care to listen.

The only other thing I can think of (which I know will make her mad), is to look at the floor when she speaks to me.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

The most charitable thing you can do is to LAUGH IN HER FACE, and walk away. If she continues on -then you should describe some of her abnormal facial features to her that seem to ‘pop-out’ when she goes on her tantrums.

By laughing, you set a positive example because laughing is good.

If you need to resort to words, then you’d be helping her to improve herself by not making those wired facial gestures, which tend to make people look weird.

 

[camerong]

The most charitable thing you can do is to LAUGH IN HER FACE, and walk away. If she continues on -then you should describe some of her abnormal facial features to her that seem to ‘pop-out’ when she goes on her tantrums.

By laughing, you set a positive example because laughing is good.

If you need to resort to words, then you’d be helping her to improve herself by not making those wired facial gestures, which tend to make people look weird.

With respect, this response, which echoes a lot of the responses, seems a bit crazy. We’ve all acted unreasonably at times, usually when we have other issues going on unrelated to that at hand. During those times, would we have wanted someone to laugh at us, or embarrass us in front of everyone? Sure, it’s remotely possible this woman needs something like a “slap in the face” to snap out of it, but much more likely, this is deeper, particularly given the extent of the hostility. Can you possibly imagine Christ laughing at someone who is rude? Charity is about condescending to others (the correct usage of the term, in the way God condescended to mankind) with patience and love, not trying to teach them a lesson. Imagine the OP follows this advice and then learns this woman committed suicide later that night–an extreme example, of course, but would the OP be comforted by the fact that the woman “needed tough love”?

There’s a psychological effect that is commonly-observed in mankind called the fundamental attribution error–when WE act unreasonably, we attribute it to outside circumstances, but when others act unreasonably, we attribute it to their personalities. Really, few people are just jerks–let’s give them the benefit of the doubt. At the worst, if our attempts at charity are rebuffed, we will have gained in holiness and obedience to God’s will.

 

[horselvr]

Please don’t do anything that would escalate an unfortunate experience.

You will want to defuse this whole mess.

If she approaches you again filled with such anger I would also apologize to her for doing anything that may have upset her if that’s actually correct or not is irrelevant.

Always take the high road and allow the other person to vent. No skin off your nose and everyone around within ear shot will realize she obviously is filled with anger.

Also, by this time she may have realized just how she may have hurt your feelings by unloading on you and she may walk into the next bible study full of apology—accept that graciously and move on from there.

 

[cmscms]

First, I would like to genuinly thank everybody for their kind responses. Second, I want to mention the behaviour I did to offend here was something along the lines of a joke being carried to far. When she pointed it out a couple of weeks ago, she did it with a sarcastic comment and in the heat of the moment I just made a sarcastic comment back. It was the type of thing I never would have given a second though to had the bible study teacher not pointed it out.

And yes, it is very hard for me to not take on the attitude ‘well… if she started it of course I will continue it’ but as a catholic, I do want to work on that.

I also like the idea of talking to her before hand. Right now, I am concerned she will catch me off guard again and that is when I will not be charitable. It is hard because everyone arrives 2 minutes before we begin so it would obviously mean missing the first part of class. Also, I think if I start with a comment ‘I want to be considerate of your feelings’ she will be more likely to listen than if I point out what she did wrong.

One last thing. The bible teacher told me she just wants to teach the bible and not deal with these issues because we should all be adults. The main reason I respect what she says is because I have know her long enough to feel confident in saying the teacher is one of those people who just doesn’t know how to handle conflict. I also know from experience people who don’t like conflict avoid it like the plague even when it is their responsibility to deal with it.

However, I was talking to my mom about this and told her that I would not try to enlist the teachers help because it would be a waste of time. And my mom made this point: ‘Part of living a Catholic lifestyle is to be charitable in our dealings with others. As a bible study teacher, she should be setting a good example and showing others how to be charitable instead of avoiding the conflict’. What do others think about my mom’s statement?

CM

 

[LightBound]

First, I would like to genuinly thank everybody for their kind responses. Second, I want to mention the behaviour I did to offend here was something along the lines of a joke being carried to far. When she pointed it out a couple of weeks ago, she did it with a sarcastic comment and in the heat of the moment I just made a sarcastic comment back. It was the type of thing I never would have given a second though to had the bible study teacher not pointed it out.

And yes, it is very hard for me to not take on the attitude ‘well… if she started it of course I will continue it’ but as a catholic, I do want to work on that.

I also like the idea of talking to her before hand. Right now, I am concerned she will catch me off guard again and that is when I will not be charitable. It is hard because everyone arrives 2 minutes before we begin so it would obviously mean missing the first part of class. Also, I think if I start with a comment ‘I want to be considerate of your feelings’ she will be more likely to listen than if I point out what she did wrong.

One last thing. The bible teacher told me she just wants to teach the bible and not deal with these issues because we should all be adults. The main reason I respect what she says is because I have know her long enough to feel confident in saying the teacher is one of those people who just doesn’t know how to handle conflict. I also know from experience people who don’t like conflict avoid it like the plague even when it is their responsibility to deal with it.

However, I was talking to my mom about this and told her that I would not try to enlist the teachers help because it would be a waste of time. And my mom made this point: ‘Part of living a Catholic lifestyle is to be charitable in our dealings with others. As a bible study teacher, she should be setting a good example and showing others how to be charitable instead of avoiding the conflict’. What do others think about my mom’s statement?

CM

Your mom is correct in that one needs to be charitable, but it should not come with letting yourself get lambasted by someone, especially in front of others. That’s not “turning the other cheek”, that’s getting yourself walked on. “Turning the other cheek” in regards to what happened means that you do not yell back at her or engage in her arguments. I wrote what I did in my previous post about “stopping it right there” because no one should be berated in front of others like she did to you. That is unacceptable behavior and by telling her to “stop right there and we’ll deal with it in private” is the charitable way of handling things. Besides, by doing that, you are actually helping her to learn that she can’t go around doing that, since it can get her physically hurt if she does it to the wrong person.

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

However, I was talking to my mom about this and told her that I would not try to enlist the teachers help because it would be a waste of time. And my mom made this point: ‘Part of living a Catholic lifestyle is to be charitable in our dealings with others. As a bible study teacher, she should be setting a good example and showing others how to be charitable instead of avoiding the conflict’. What do others think about my mom’s statement?

I completely agree with your mother. This teacher has a responsibility to either back you up, or to put a stop to this sort of behavior, when it happens in her class. Her reaction of putting her hand over her mouth and chuckling, was uncharitable. I’m sure she was caught off guard, and being uncomfortable, she probably didn’t intend to encourage this woman’s behavior, but still, as a leader of the group, she gave a bad example, and sent the message that disruption and rudeness are no big deal.

That said, you can’t make the teacher do something she doesn’t want to do. I think asking her ahead of time is good though, because it lets her recognize her responsibility, and puts her in the position of facing her discomfort, which ultimately is better for her spiritually, in the long run. This is true even if she still doesn’t back you up. Asking her ahead of time also will give her time to plan what she might say. This might make her more likely to be able to say the right thing than if she has to say something on the spot, whereas if she is surprised by a confrontation, she won’t be prepared and will probably do everything she can to avoid saying something.