How can I be charitable without being a doormat

[SamH]

Does anyone have any suggestions?

What would Jesus do?

Remember - overturning tables and whipping people is one of the answers.

 

[Giggly_Giraffe]

Next to the Holy Eucharist, this person (your neighbor) may be the holiest person you encounter.

I suggest you take what you have learned and practiced from the Sacrament of Reconciliation to repair the relationship. Examine your conscience, and find true contrition for the wrongs you have committed against this person. It sounds as if you already know the part you played in this. Then in private (confession is usually private) or with a mediator say out-loud how you have damaged this relationship. Ask for forgiveness and for penance (or a way to make it up to this person). Then follow through with making it up to this person.

Do not expect the same treatment from this person … Remember, you can only control you and your actions. Part of this control is forgiving this person too. If however, they ask you for forgiveness and penance, be merciful.

Hurt people hurt others; just because you are hurt & embarrassed does not give you permission to create more hurt. You have the opportunity to treat a person who may be abundantly hurt by life with human dignity and stop the cycle. This is the Christian way. He who fights by the sward dies by the sward - Jesus.

 

[Luvz2travel]

You go back to the Bible Study as if it never happened. If she starts up again, you interrupt her ranting right there by holding up your hand in the “stop” manner (palm outward, fingers spread) and tell her to STOP right now. You inform her you will not tolerate her belittling you in front of others. Let her know that if she has a concern with you, you’ll gladly discuss it with her in private (or with your priest present, if she’s that unstable), but under no circumstances is she to come unhinged in front of you and others again. Be polite, but be as firm and assertive as you possibly can. She needs to learn that kind of behavior is totally unacceptable, because if she pulls that on the wrong person sometime, and it could get her hurt (road rage, a stranger that cuts in front of her, etc), so dealing with her directly about it and making sure she knows she cannot go around doing that could save her life or physical well-being sometime.

Yes also don’t be afraid to stick up for yourself. The others in the class may appreciate it more than you know. Why people are afraid of sticking up for themselves is beyond me but I would have told her upfront her behavior was rude or uncalled for and she needed to stop it during class. The teacher should have said something but then maybe she’s had problems with this lady too. Most likely you’re far from the last one she’s tried this behavior with. Good for you though for saying “Don’t bully me” Don’t take her personally. Rude behavior is one of the things I don’t tolerate these days there’s too much it.

 

[camerong]

What would Jesus do?

Remember - overturning tables and whipping people is one of the answers.

This is not reflective of what Christ would do here. Making the temple a marketplace was an offense against God, and no passive charity would have corrected it. But when Jesus himself was mocked and injured, he did not overturn tables and grab a whip, but prayed for his tormentors. Acting thusly converted some among the aggressors; had he responded with force, it would have only escalated the situation and made those punishing him feel vindicated. Such is the situation here.

 

[LightBound]

This is not reflective of what Christ would do here. Making the temple a marketplace was an offense against God, and no passive charity would have corrected it. But when Jesus himself was mocked and injured, he did not overturn tables and grab a whip, but prayed for his tormentors. Acting thusly converted some among the aggressors; had he responded with force, it would have only escalated the situation and made those punishing him feel vindicated. Such is the situation here.

But know that responding with force and standing up for oneself are not the same thing. This woman is bullying the OP and it’s no different than the bullying that goes on in schools. That’ why I advised her to return to the study as if nothing happened (to let the occurance die down), however, if the woman starts up again, the OP needs to tell her to stop right there and that’s she’s not to speak to her in that manner anymore. Both are daughters of the Lord and neither should be belittling another. The OP has every right as a daughter of the Lord to insist her sister in Christ speak to her in a civil and Christian manner and she has every right to demand it stop immediately should this woman get herself in an uproar again.

 

[camerong]

But know that responding with force and standing up for oneself are not the same thing. This woman is bullying the OP and it’s no different than the bullying that goes on in schools.

Obviously some kind of balance is necessary–while she should not be flippant or rude in reply (and in fact, as I’ve mentioned, should really reach out in love privately before hand), she also shouldn’t sit there and silently tolerate continued attacks like a dog being scolded. However, when the offense is against me alone, I would prefer to err on the side of being too docile, which tends to both reflect and foster humility, than too reactive, which tends to both reflect and foster pride. Now, if the offense is against another, as in bullying, that’s obviously a different situation. We can’t exactly ask children who are being bullied to respond with love and grow in humility, but the OP seems well-balanced and mature, and that seems to be likely the most appropriate response.

That’ why I advised her to return to the study as if nothing happened (to let the occurance die down), however, if the woman starts up again, the OP needs to tell her to stop right there and that’s she’s not to speak to her in that manner anymore. Both are daughters of the Lord and neither should be belittling another. The OP has every right as a daughter of the Lord to insist her sister in Christ speak to her in a civil and Christian manner and she has every right to demand it stop immediately should this woman get herself in an uproar again.

Didn’t see that part. Really, I think I agree–I just think its important for her to at least consider whether reaching out to this woman (outside of the presence of the group) might help. Best of both worlds would be to try reaching out, and if that doesn’t work, be assertive and steadfast in vocally opposing this bullying.

 

[KostyaJMJ]

Turn off your brain, tune out, and nod when she takes a breath. :yup:

If you develop the the skill properly you will never even hear her speaking.

 

[ringil]

First, I would like to genuinly thank everybody for their kind responses. Second, I want to mention the behaviour I did to offend here was something along the lines of a joke being carried to far. When she pointed it out a couple of weeks ago, she did it with a sarcastic comment and in the heat of the moment I just made a sarcastic comment back. It was the type of thing I never would have given a second though to had the bible study teacher not pointed it out.

And yes, it is very hard for me to not take on the attitude ‘well… if she started it of course I will continue it’ but as a catholic, I do want to work on that.

I also like the idea of talking to her before hand. Right now, I am concerned she will catch me off guard again and that is when I will not be charitable. It is hard because everyone arrives 2 minutes before we begin so it would obviously mean missing the first part of class. Also, I think if I start with a comment ‘I want to be considerate of your feelings’ she will be more likely to listen than if I point out what she did wrong.

One last thing. The bible teacher told me she just wants to teach the bible and not deal with these issues because we should all be adults. The main reason I respect what she says is because I have know her long enough to feel confident in saying the teacher is one of those people who just doesn’t know how to handle conflict. I also know from experience people who don’t like conflict avoid it like the plague even when it is their responsibility to deal with it.

However, I was talking to my mom about this and told her that I would not try to enlist the teachers help because it would be a waste of time. And my mom made this point: ‘Part of living a Catholic lifestyle is to be charitable in our dealings with others. As a bible study teacher, she should be setting a good example and showing others how to be charitable instead of avoiding the conflict’. What do others think about my mom’s statement?

CM

Such silliness in a Bible study.

Not your behavior necessarily but I just think it’s kind of stupid that folks would bring any kind of intensity to a completely voluntary activity of leisure.

 

[SamH]

This is not reflective of what Christ would do here. Making the temple a marketplace was an offense against God, and no passive charity would have corrected it.

Why not?

But when Jesus himself was mocked and injured, he did not overturn tables and grab a whip, but prayed for his tormentors. Acting thusly converted some among the aggressors; had he responded with force, it would have only escalated the situation and made those punishing him feel vindicated. Such is the situation here.

How many Roman soldiers converted after they killed Christ?

How do the two situations reconcile with the Holy Trinity?

 

[cmscms]

Such silliness in a Bible study.

Not your behavior necessarily but I just think it’s kind of stupid that folks would bring any kind of intensity to a completely voluntary activity of leisure.

I totally agree this is silliness. And that is why I posted because I no longer want to feed into it

CM

 

[underacloud]

I totally agree this is silliness. And that is why I posted because I no longer want to feed into it

CM

If you want to stop feeding into it, you need to disarm the situation, not react further.

I completely disagree with the approach suggested by some others in this thread about how to respond to her. If she berates you in front of others, telling her to stop and demanding she speak to you with respect will likely upset her further. As camerong said, a reactive response will tend to reflect and foster pride. It will likely elevate the disagreement. Don’t be reactionary, be calm.

You can still be firm yet polite, such as “I think it’s best of we continued this discussion in private”, which is a measured response and unlikely to highten her aggression.

As you’ve already said, a quick conciliatory word beforehand may sufficiently release the tension of the situation.

 

[cmscms]

You can still be firm yet polite, such as “I think it’s best of we continued this discussion in private”, which is a measured response and unlikely to highten her aggression.

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If I don’t get a chance to talk to her before hand, I do like this idea. However, if she does not agree to a private talk and makes a comment that is agressive, then what do I do?

 

[EasterJoy]

I totally agree this is silliness. And that is why I posted because I no longer want to feed into it

CM

You have no authority over the Bible study teacher and you have no authority over this other student. Don’t worry about what they ought to be doing, but only what you ought to be doing.

A wise person is not picky about whether corrections are done well, just whether or not the correction applies. If you do something wrong, overlook how awful this woman is at offering the needed rebuke, apologize as if she had corrected you appropriately–calmly, and not more dramatically than if she had been calm and appropriate, too–and try to amend yourself. Do not make excuses and don’t offer any counter-accusations. This is the humble response, and there is nothing “doormat” about it. A mild answer calms wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger. Prov. 15:1

If you are corrected in error during class or if the whole process is getting far too dramatic for anyone’s good, then you can say, “I’d like to talk to you about this, but it is not right for us to take class time up with the matter. Let’s talk after class.” Then ignore whatever she says after that, turning your attention pointedly to the teacher. If this other student won’t drop the matter, she is the teacher’s problem after that.

If you are corrected in error outside of class, then you can say, “I don’t think I did anything objectively wrong, but it does bother me that what I did bothered you. I will try to take your likes and dislikes into account in the future.”

After that, there gets to be a point where you say, “I’m sorry this is upsetting you so much, but I think I’ve given in not only as much as I feel inclined to, but as much as feel I ought to. Anything more would be inappropriate, sorry. We’ll just have to do our best to agree to disagree and stay out of each other’s path.” Then be as good as your word, and give this woman a wide berth.

 

[underacloud]

If I don’t get a chance to talk to her before hand, I do like this idea. However, if she does not agree to a private talk and makes a comment that is agressive, then what do I do?

Stay calm, and if need be tell her politely that now is not the appropriate time to talk.

There is always a temptation to answer back when someone makes a comment that we don’t appreciate. But it usually reflects as poorly on you as it does on them if you take their bait. Stay calm and don’t engage in a reactionary manner.

 

[cmscms]

Stay calm, and if need be tell her politely that now is not the appropriate time to talk.

There is always a temptation to answer back when someone makes a comment that we don’t appreciate. But it usually reflects as poorly on you as it does on them if you take their bait. Stay calm and don’t engage in a reactionary manner.

OK, one more question. If like last week she gets in my face and makes a rude comment and walks away without me having a chance to say anything, should I just stay put, bite my tongue and talk to the teacher after?

Thanks

 

[TheRealJuliane]

OK, one more question. If like last week she gets in my face and makes a rude comment and walks away without me having a chance to say anything, should I just stay put, bite my tongue and talk to the teacher after?

Thanks

Walk away before she gets in your face. Avoid her like the plagues of Pharoh. Smile politely as you turn away and walk in the other direction. If she dares to touch you, as in catching your shoulder, just shrug it off and keep walking.

Do not spend more time worrying about such a person. She’s extremely rude and is used to getting her own way through intimidation. It’s working - she’s got the teacher cowed. You don’t have to play along.

There are jerks all over the world.

 

[Do_Good_Then_Go]

OK, one more question. If like last week she gets in my face and makes a rude comment and walks away without me having a chance to say anything, should I just stay put, bite my tongue and talk to the teacher after?

Thanks

I think ignoring her is the best option. Smiling politely and walking away (as another poster said) sounds like good advice.

If someone directs a rude comment at me and then walks away, chasing after them is keeping the whole thing going and escalating the situation. I don’t want to play games like that. Life’s too short.

 

[cmscms]

Walk away before she gets in your face. Avoid her like the plagues of Pharoh. Smile politely as you turn away and walk in the other direction. If she dares to touch you, as in catching your shoulder, just shrug it off and keep walking.

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I can’t walk away. Last week I was sitting in a chair against the wall and I was cornered when she got in my face

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I can’t walk away. Last week I was sitting in a chair against the wall and I was cornered when she got in my face

Then don’t put yourself into the same position. Take a different chair. Don’t let her pin you anywhere.

 

[underacloud]

OK, one more question. If like last week she gets in my face and makes a rude comment and walks away without me having a chance to say anything, should I just stay put, bite my tongue and talk to the teacher after?

Thanks

Yes, bite our tongue. At that point, calling out after her will heighten the tension and escalate things. She’ll most likely feel the need to get the last word in, whether that means turning and coming back to confront you, or coming at you again next week.

Also, if you call out after her, you may appear ill-disciplined and petty to the rest of the group. A dignified silence will reflect very well on you.