How can I get a Latin Mass started at my local Parish?

[youngsaint]

I would like to attend a Latin Mass, and so, I’m sure, would a majority of catholics in my very-conservative-city, but there is no Traditional mass near my location. Does anyone have experience with this?

 

[Spencerian]

I would like to attend a Latin Mass, and so, I’m sure, would a majority of catholics in my very-conservative-city, but there is no Traditional mass near my location. Does anyone have experience with this?

Hi, there!

All matters involving the liturgy of a Mass at any church are the responsibility of the bishop of your diocese. They can approve the use of the Extraordinary Form of the Mass more liberally now, given the recent OK from the Holy See on this.

The problem you may run into is that most priests now are not trained in the Extraordinary Form and so cannot conduct it. Your bishop would need to find a priest that can perform that particular Mass, and the parish must also be prepared to handle that Mass without affecting the Ordinary Form that may be conducted there.

I’d write your diocese. They may know a place where you can go that’s not far away, or even grant your request–provided you might show a significant parishioner interest, and the bishop knows of a priest that can perform the EF.

 

[NeelyAnn]

I would like to attend a Latin Mass, and so, I’m sure, would a majority of catholics in my very-conservative-city, but there is no Traditional mass near my location. Does anyone have experience with this?

The proper ‘protocol’, as I understand it, is that you are to first approach your parish priest. If he is unable or unwilling to assist, or simply unresponsive, then you are to approach your local bishop. If the bishop is unable or unwilling to assist, or unresponsive, then write to the PCED in Rome.

Note: the priest does not need the local bishop’s permission, according to Summorum Pontificum. When asked to provide the TLM, he should work to find a way to do so. If he won’t, the responsibility falls to the bishop to make it happen. If he will not, you will need to send copies of your correspondence with both priest and bishop and detail the steps you have taken to try to obtain the TLM when you write to the PCED.

Sometimes your parish priest may not be willing, but a priest from another parish maybe. Asking around can be helpful. Older priest are often times still familar with the TLM, so they may be a good start. It also helps to know how many other people wuld be interested.

 

[corsair]

I’ve never been accused of being a rocket scientist but I do know how this is done. And NeelyAnn is almost “spot-on”.

To provide a little clout to your request be sure to “form” a group of like minded folks. Draw up a petition and present it to your priest. (always keep the original paperwork). If the priest can’t or won’t say the Mass then write the Bishop and send copies of all your paper work along to him including your written request to the priest. Wait for at least a month; if you get no answer then resubmit to the Bishop. Wait for another month. If you get either no answer or A NEGATIVE ANSWER, then write to PCED and send copies of all correspondence. It took us over a year but we got it done.

Good luck and God Bless.

 

[bpbasilphx]

By “Latin Mass,” which form do you mean?

The Ordinary Form may be celebrated in Latin, too. In fact, Pope Benedict does this all the time.

 

[NeelyAnn]

By “Latin Mass,” which form do you mean?

The Ordinary Form may be celebrated in Latin, too. In fact, Pope Benedict does this all the time.

This is the Traditional Catholicism Forum. The NO in Latin is not Traditional. Not to mention, the OP specified the ‘Traditional’ Mass in his/her post. The NO in Latin is not the Traditional Mass. It is also a rarity, in the states at least. In addition, Summorum Pontificum granted the faithful a way to obtain the Traditional Latin Mass, not the NO in Latin.

 

[reggieM]

Usually the biggest obstacle in having the traditional Mass (Extraordinary Form) in your parish is finding a priest who is able to offer it. Most priests do not know how – they don’t have the Latin language skills and don’t know the rubrics. Additionally, it’s difficult to add another Mass to the Sunday schedule if there are not enough priests.

Una Voce America sponsors a Priest Training Program. If you know of a priest who is willing to offer the Mass but needs training, Una Voce will cover costs of the program.

 

[Malkin71]

Usually the biggest obstacle in having the traditional Mass (Extraordinary Form) in your parish is finding a priest who is able to offer it. Most priests do not know how – they don’t have the Latin language skills and don’t know the rubrics. Additionally, it’s difficult to add another Mass to the Sunday schedule if there are not enough priests.

Una Voce America sponsors a Priest Training Program. If you know of a priest who is willing to offer the Mass but needs training, Una Voce will cover costs of the program. You can email them here also.

This is why The Pope and the Vatican should mandat that both forms must be taught in the Semanaries and have Bishops require the Diocesican Priests learn the EF Mass! Also Latin must be taught in Catholic Schools.

This will address the problem of 1. learning and understanding the Latin Language and 2. finding a Priest to say the EF Mass. 3. The Priest will be offer both forms then there will not be a problem if a group of people ask for a EF Mass.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

This is the Traditional Catholicism Forum. The NO in Latin is not Traditional. Not to mention, the OP specified the ‘Traditional’ Mass in his/her post. The NO in Latin is not the Traditional Mass. It is also a rarity, in the states at least. In addition, Summorum Pontificum granted the faithful a way to obtain the Traditional Latin Mass, not the NO in Latin.

So following the disciplines of the Church may not be Traditional?

Traditional Catholicism is not the EF Mass only.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

This is why The Pope and the Vatican should mandat that both forms must be taught in the Semanaries and have Bishops require the Diocesican Priests learn the EF Mass! Also Latin must be taught in Catholic Schools.

This will address the problem of 1. learning and understanding the Latin Language and 2. finding a Priest to say the EF Mass. 3. The Priest will be offer both forms then there will not be a problem if a group of people ask for a EF Mass.

As I posted in the Liturgy and Sacraments sub-forum. The Masters of Divinity 4 year professional Masters degree program is 102 credit hours in length.

May I ask wht you suggest be dropped from the program to do this?

No priest is required to celebrate the EF Mass.

I know some people have read into Summorum Pontificum that the people have a right to the EF Mass and that a priest must celebrate it for them when requested but that is not what the document says.

 

[NeelyAnn]

So following the disciplines of the Church may not be Traditional?

Traditional Catholicism is not the EF Mass only.

ByzCath - The entire CA forum, with the exception of the Traditional Catholicism section, is basically all about the OF, as it is called today. The Traditional Catholicism forum was started for discussions on the EF, the SSPX and topics which are considered Traditional Catholicism. That would not be the OF. The OP goes to the OF. The OP specifically said they were looking to start a Latin Mass (later the OP referenced a Traditional Mass). The OP is obviously not talking about the OF.

Like I said, this is the Traditional Catholicism forum. There would be no need to ask about starting an OF Mass (NO Mass). Those are readily available everywhere. Not to mention that the OF is not referred to as the Latin Mass or the Traditional Mass. Only the EF Mass is referred to in those ways.

 

[NeelyAnn]

I know some people have read into Summorum Pontificum that the people have a right to the EF Mass and that a priest must celebrate it for them when requested but that is not what the document says.

Here is what Summorum Pontificum says:

Art. 5. § 1 In parishes, where there is a stable group of faithful who adhere to the earlier liturgical tradition, the pastor should willingly accept their requests to celebrate the Mass according to the rite of the Roman Missal published in 1962, and ensure that the welfare of these faithful harmonises with the ordinary pastoral care of the parish, under the guidance of the bishop in accordance with canon 392, avoiding discord and favouring the unity of the whole Church.

Art. 7. If a group of lay faithful, as mentioned in art. 5 õ 1, has not obtained satisfaction to their requests from the pastor, they should inform the diocesan bishop. The bishop is strongly requested to satisfy their wishes. If he cannot arrange for such celebration to take place, the matter should be referred to the Pontifical Commission “Ecclesia Dei”.

Also note this:

**The Catholic Herald: **So would the Pope like to see many ordinary parishes making provision for the Gregorian Rite?

Cardinal Hoyos: **All the parishes. Not many **– all the parishes, because this is a gift of God.

youngcatholicadults-latestnews.blogspot.com/2008/06/cardinal-hoyos-pope-wants-traditional.html

To want otherwise is to go against the will of the Pope.

 

[Brendan]

As I posted in the Liturgy and Sacraments sub-forum. The Masters of Divinity 4 year professional Masters degree program is 102 credit hours in length.

May I ask wht you suggest be dropped from the program to do this?.

Pope Benedict has already requested that seminarians learn sufficent Latin to be able to say the Mass

Speaking more generally, I ask that future priests, from their time in the seminary, receive the preparation needed to understand and to celebrate Mass in Latin, and also to use Latin texts and execute Gregorian chant;

• Sacramentum Charitas

Our own seminary ( Sacred Heart Major Seminary) already requires the seminarians to take a year of Latin AND instructs the seminarians on how to say the OF Mass in Latin.

One of the former seminarians from our parish (now a priest) spent two weeks just after his ordination with the priests of St. John Cantus learning the rubrics for the EF Mass. That was with the Latin he learned right out of the seminary.

Here is the requisite undergrad program ( B.A. in Philosophy)

aodonline.org/SHMS/Academic+Programs+13375/Udergraduate+Degree+Programs+14754/Bachelor+of+Philosophy+5991/Bachelor+of+Philosophy±+B.Phil+Program.htm

And the M.Div ( 123 credit hours)

aodonline.org/SHMS/Academic+Programs+13375/Graduate+Degree+Programs+14756/Master+of+Divinity+5977/Master+of+Divinity±+Course+of+Study.htm

 

[corsair]

Thank you, NeelyAnn for saying what has been bothering me for sometime now. The eastern rites have a forum and the OF rite has a forum as does the TLM folks. (thats this forum) Why do others keep bouncing in here and raising a “little cain”.

Wish a moderatoer would clarify this issue.

 

[ibkc]

Thank you, NeelyAnn for saying what has been bothering me for sometime now. The eastern rites have a forum and the OF rite has a forum as does the TLM folks. (thats this forum) Why do others keep bouncing in here and raising a “little cain”.

Wish a moderatoer would clarify this issue.

From forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=6115468&postcount=2 in the stickies up top:

This is the Traditional Catholicism forum. It is intended for the discussion of traditional Catholicism not the practices of the Church today. ** It is intended for traditional Catholics.**

Non-traditional Catholics, Catholics of other rites, and non-Catholics are welcome to participate in the TC forum, however, they will not be allowed to dominate conversations or to push agendas which are not in keeping with the purpose of this forum.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Pope Benedict has already requested that seminarians learn sufficent Latin to be able to say the Mass

Yes and I see nothing wrong with that, at worst that is adding a one or two semester course. But you added the stipulation that all seminarians be able to celebrate both forms of the Mass.

This would require additional practicum classes because one should not just learn how to celebrate one of the Sacraments in the EF they should be able to get around all the others if necessary.

The issue as I see it, Latin to celebrate the Mass is fine as the OF can be celebrated in that way also, mandating the teaching of the EF, which is a preference and not required to be celebrated by any priest, is a lot more.

Our own seminary ( Sacred Heart Major Seminary) already requires the seminarians to take a year of Latin AND instructs the seminarians on how to say the OF Mass in Latin.

One of the former seminarians from our parish (now a priest) spent two weeks just after his ordination with the priests of St. John Cantus learning the rubrics for the EF Mass. That was with the Latin he learned right out of the seminary.

Here is the requisite undergrad program ( B.A. in Philosophy)

aodonline.org/SHMS/Academic+Programs+13375/Udergraduate+Degree+Programs+14754/Bachelor+of+Philosophy+5991/Bachelor+of+Philosophy±+B.Phil+Program.htm

And the M.Div ( 123 credit hours)

aodonline.org/SHMS/Academic+Programs+13375/Graduate+Degree+Programs+14756/Master+of+Divinity+5977/Master+of+Divinity±+Course+of+Study.htm

Wow, 123 credit hours, I guess I will stop complaining about the 102 credit hours. But I bet if we look at the work we will see the 102 I am required to take is close to the 123 there because for some reason my theologate likes to throw in a bunch of 2 credit classes (something that most seminaries/theologates do not do). I do not understand why becuase as it is, the 2 credit courses seem to have more work involved than the 3 credit courses, just less class room time.

I would also add that mandating the teaching of the EF at seminaries could also be an issue for religious as Summorum Pontificum is directed to the dioceses (bishops) and not religious priests.

 

[pnewton]

This is the Traditional Catholicism Forum. The NO in Latin is not Traditional.

I think you are mistaken, at least as far as this forum is concerned. “Traditional” has never been defined. The T in TLM is for Tridentine, not Traditional. There is at least one poster here that is an old hand that attends the current Mass in Latin. He is a traditional as anyone here.

But you are right in that first the OP needs to determine what is wanted, Latin or the TLM. The first needs only for the priest to agree to say Latin. The second though, has protection through SP, which you quoted. I thing you gave a good formula in your first post. I will add the one caveat that a SP does specify a stable group of people are needed. For this reason, not only does one need more people to define a group, one may also need more time, to define stable.

All the best to the OP. I pray that everyone who desires the TLM is able to satisfy that desire.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

ByzCath - The entire CA forum, with the exception of the Traditional Catholicism section, is basically all about the OF, as it is called today.

This is a gross mischaracterization. Apologetics has nothing to do with the form of the Mass, neither does most of the other sub-forums. That it can be discussed there has nothing to do with it anyways.

It is very annoying that the sole criteria for many of a Traditional Catholic is preference for a certain form of the Mass.

Like I said, this is the Traditional Catholicism forum. There would be no need to ask about starting an OF Mass (NO Mass). Those are readily available everywhere. Not to mention that the OF is not referred to as the Latin Mass or the Traditional Mass. Only the EF Mass is referred to in those ways.

Again, wrong again. I know of many parishes that have the OF in Latin and their bulletin lists those as Latin Mass.

I a valid point was brought up. Be precise when asking questions. I know of many people who would love to get a Latin OF started up in their parish.

I also think it is the moderators job to chastise users, not yours.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

From forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=6115468&postcount=2 in the stickies up top:
This is the Traditional Catholicism forum. It is intended for the discussion of traditional Catholicism not the practices of the Church today. It is intended for traditional Catholics.

Non-traditional Catholics, Catholics of other rites, and non-Catholics are welcome to participate in the TC forum, however, they will not be allowed to dominate conversations or to push agendas which are not in keeping with the purpose of this forum.

Then if we follow this explicitly we should not be discussing Summorum Pontificum in this thread as that is a practice of the Church today.

 

[pnewton]

This is the Traditional Catholicism forum. It is intended for the discussion of traditional Catholicism not the practices of the Church today. It is intended for traditional Catholics.

I remember that sticky and did not see it this way. Since, as is often pointed out, the TLM is not an indult Mass, it is a practice of the Church today. I believe the simpler answer is that this comments was in response to the post on such things as CITH, girl altar servers, EMHC, etc., that have nothing to do with Traditional Catholicism. There was one particular thread about the “Novus Ordo” being forty years old. I think this is the type of thing that was aimed at and not intended as a ban on discussion of the Latin Mass in the current order.