How can I help my boyfriend understand?

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Oh my gosh…this is the exact opposite of what God intends…religion isn’t something that “gets in the way” and “comes between you”…it is the very thing that is supposed to bring you together. Disunity in religious beliefs…are that very thing. Disunity. A marriage is supposed to be a sacrament between 2 people…united in Christ.

God is the top of the triangle, and the 2 people become closer to each other when they become closer to Christ, and vice versa. God is not something one should hide in order to get closer to someone else. That is putting someone/thing before God…that is idolotry.

Morality and Faith are in fact objective. Truth is truth.

Marriages work well when all the decisions are based on the question “How will I get my family to heaven?”
My parents have been married 22 years, and they are very much in love with each other and they are of opposite relegions, and i’d say they’d disagree with that…

If they let it thier individgual beleifs could have gotten in the way of each other, but they didnt let it… my fathers truth and my mothers truth are in several aspects differing… But they share common ideals regardless of the mythical aspects of thier individgual relegions…

And i think marriages and relationships work well, when people understand, love, compramise and care about each other… Not when they are constantly trying to work out how to reach an infinte headonistic point of existance…
 
I wonder if there were many people that tried to dissuade my parents from marrying based on religion…

Becuase my father is a wonderful man, who loves his children and his wife very much…
 
They are as subjective as beauty, and we notice that it changes throughout history and culture, from the jewish moses killing all pow’s except the virgins and keeping them as a prize, to the geneva convention codes and standards of today…
How in the world does that explain objective truth? If anything it refutes relativism. Killing people is bad…whether you believe it is or not. A culture doesn’t have to believe something is wrong for it to be wrong…

Nope…

2+2=4 for EVERYONE not just some people.
Same with morality and faith.

God exists for everyone. Jesus exists for everyone…whether you believe in him or not.

You can believe that 2+2=5 all you want, but that doesn’t make it true.

You can believe that God doesn’t exist all you want, but that doesn’t make it true. Truth cannot ever change.

Just because occasionaly mixed marriages work out, does not mean that it is a good thing to live that way. Your parents missed out on the grace from the sacrament because one wasn’t baptized. I’m happy that it workes for them positively, but a Catholic should not be seeking a non-sacramental marriage.
 
**Okay there are a lot of things to reply to but I will just say this:
If ‘Jellie’ were my daughter, would I want her dating this guy in the hopes of changing him?? NOPE! Then why would Christ want her dating him? You can be ‘the Gospel’ to others w/ out it being a ‘dating relationship’. 🤷

Jesus and Cherie, if you have a daughter, would you tell her to go out and date a guy that she can ‘change’ instead of dating someone who is likeminded???:confused: **
 
How in the world does that explain objective truth? If anything it refutes relativism. Killing people is bad…whether you believe it is or not. A culture doesn’t have to believe something is wrong for it to be wrong…

Nope…

2+2=4 for EVERYONE not just some people.
Same with morality and faith.

God exists for everyone. Jesus exists for everyone…whether you believe in him or not.

You can believe that 2+2=5 all you want, but that doesn’t make it true.

You can believe that God doesn’t exist all you want, but that doesn’t make it true. Truth cannot ever change.

Just because occasionaly mixed marriages work out, does not mean that it is a good thing to live that way. Your parents missed out on the grace from the sacrament because one wasn’t baptized. I’m happy that it workes for them positively, but a Catholic should not be seeking a non-sacramental marriage.
You can believe that God does exist all you want, but that doesn’t make it true. Truth cannot ever change.

And killing is bad for our culture, but in America and Thailand and other countries they still have capital punishment… bad and good are words we use to describe different perspectives of morality… It does not make these moralities any less false…

Is the way Kim Jong Eel running government false or true, it is true, but is it effective, no…so we can say it is bad, because it negatively affects the society, but it is still a true way of governing a people…

I’m sure i said this and I did
I will give that there are some truths, like truths about our perceived reality, things like germ thoery of desise, gravity, mathematics, the process of fusion etc…
That includes 2+2=4 … And considering on this forum 70% of the peopel that viewed my noahs ark true or not thread said it was true as written in the scripture… When science and history collaboratively say otherwise… now thats saying 2+2 = i

Things like morality, art, music, beauty, design, and i’m sure more than i can think of, these things are subjective. Science and History (To an extent) and Mathematics are not subjective. And the existance of Jesus is questionable and there is unfortunately not one document that is not a hotly debated topic in the history world that backs up his existance… Without baddgering Jesus…

Socrates did he exisist true or false?

Nyway back to the main point… If two people truely love each other why does it matter that they are of opposite faiths?
 
you’re not making any sense.

Just because someone runs a govt one way or another doesn’t make what he is doing objectively good. it is what is existing…sinfulness and evil. it does not make it good.

stating that there is no faith objectivity, is actually stating a faith objective.

Just because people debate something doesn’t make the topic not exist. There is a truth regarding Noah, etc. What exactly happened is what people are trying to get at…which means they are searching for the TRUTH. THere IS a truth about Noah…what that is is debated. People’s perception of what happend does not make the reality of what happened change to their perception.

This person is seeking advice on a CATHOLIC board, so, giving Catholic advice is what they are seeking.

Two people cannot trully love each other without the existence of God, seeing as how he IS love. (Not necessarily acknowledging that God exists, just that HE is the source of love-He gives the gift whether we believe in Him or not) LOVE is a decision, not a feeling.

When a couple realizes who gave them the gift of love, and know the purpose of their marriage is to get each other to heaven, then the graces of the sacrament can be unleashed fully.
 
Things like morality, art, music, beauty, design, and i’m sure more than i can think of, these things are subjective. Science and History (To an extent) and Mathematics are not subjective. And the existance of Jesus is questionable and there is unfortunately not one document that is not a hotly debated topic in the history world that backs up his existance… Without baddgering Jesus…

Socrates did he exisist true or false?

Nyway back to the main point… If two people truely love each other why does it matter that they are of opposite faiths?
That is just nonsense mate. Go study. Then you will know that Jesus is one of the most documented historical persons of that time… we have people both before and after him in time whose existence historical critical analysis/ modern history-scholars hold to be factual even if they are far less documented than Jesus of Nazareth. Man I can only hope that yous start studying or befriend some modern history students. They will tell you that your statement is so passee.

One other thing for you to understand is that you mix together statements of taste (“the color red is most beautiful” - says X) and statements of truth/values like (“God exist”)
When it comes to taste there is not objective truth… I might say darkeyed men are most handsome. You might prefer blue-eyed. However, we have to agree that matemathical results couldn’t say something else than what they do. If you have different results then you cease talking about math.
And in the same category agree that if there is a God there cant also be no God according to personal preference.
However… and I say this with no ill intent… ´people who are influenced my newage and buddhism often have a confused and contradictory world view. Eg. you can find them saying “all things are illusion” … but what to do with such an illusionary sentence? I heard one man saying “suffering is an illusion”. I wanted to take him to the cancerward where I was working at the time- Or you find them saying that all religions are true without admitting that the religions are not compatible. A friend related that buddhist inspired friend of his even both endorsed polytheism and monoteism… He said the Christian God was true, but so was the hindu-gods.
The confusion in such peoples’ heads is absolute. they make themselves gods.

Only people who are relativistic with their faith to a large extent can walk into a marriage with a person of another religion and say it causes no problems.
 
Jesus n Cherie

No one here is saying that we/she shouldn’t spread the Gospel…

you don’t have to DATE someone to do it.

I did NOT say that she wasn’t led into his life for this purpose. I did NOT say she should leave him totally alone. You have completletely put words in my mouth and twisted them.

I say she should not date him. DATE him. Missionary dating is wrong.
Second, you tell her to be just his friend. Let’s be realistic again. If she were to end the “dating” relationship with him, telling him that she wants to be “just friends”, what will he do?
I will tell you exactly what he will do. He will be her friend until he finds another person to “date”.
Then Joe and Jill will most likely become involved in a physical relationship…because he has no reason to say “no” to it.
And then,
Jill will put her foot down on the friendship between he and Jelly. Why would she not? Jelly would be an ex girlfriend, and should no longer be important to him now that he has someone else. So the friendship no longer exists. There are no ties.

So, despite that everything may be all fine and well for Jelly, Joe has lost any chance to learn and experience the Truth from Jelly’s witness.
And it may well be years before he grows close with another Christian that may be a light or example for him.

Once again, it isn’t as though she were being led into sin.
 
Yes, but the good time to start dating them and considering marriage with them was after their conversion - not before. Especially if they are in the habit of committing murder! (And even with conversion, there is such a thing as backsliding. Not every addict remains completely clean from the first moment of conversion, onwards. For some, it takes a period of adjustment to the clean lifestyle.)

No woman (or man) is ever obligated to be in a relationship with someone who is not good marriage material. Healthy families need healthy moms and dads.
If you read my posts, you would have seen that I stated very clearly to Jelly that she was in no way obligated to stay in this relationship. Once again, SHE IS NOT TALKING ABOUT MARRYING THIS GUY !!! Why should you tell God that she is not allowed to be a part of His bringing Joe into the fold? And she hasn’t called him a porn addict!!! Stop putting words into her mouth! We all know that pornography is bad, no one is disputing that. But that doesn’t mean that everyone who sometimes looks at pornography is addicted to it!!! I, years ago, watched a pornographic movie or two. But I am not looking at it today, nor have I for many years. I used to fornicate. But I don’t anymore. I have been drunk a few times in my life, but I am not addicted to alcohol. I can’t remember the last time I had a drink because it never has been anything important to me. I am addicted to ciggarretes. I admit it.
My point is, it is foolish to believe that without any light in his life, he will find his way out of the darkness.
And it is foolish to believe that if she said…no more dating…you are not allowed to hold my hand…he would not find a girlfriend who would put an end to his friendship with Jelly. Did you want your boyfriend or husband hanging out with his ex girlfriends? Be realistic!!!
So, the light that Jesus may be shining through Jelly to him, would go out.
I stand by what I say. If dating is leading into sin…and after 3-4 months it has not…then I don’t believe it is a sin.
And it isn’t missionary dating. She genuinely cares very much for this guy, and he obviously cares very much for her…or he would have dropped her for someone who would have sex with him 3 months ago. He obviously has reasons to stay…and I don’t believe that the reasons involve corrupting her.
If they weren’t already dating, I could easily say that the best thing to do is be FRIENDS, and only friends. I believe that is the best way to go. BUT BUT BUT they are already established as dating. If she breaks it off now, what would change with the relationship from what they are doing now? He would feel rejected by her, and he would move on. And that is not necessarily what is best. You want her to throw him away…irregardless of what you say…your words to her imply instructions to throw him away. It is useless to tell someone who is starving and naked to eat well and stay warm without giving them something to eat and a coat. She is in the position to gently guide him to Christ. To feed and cloth him. It seems that you want her to just tell him to eat well and stay warm without stepping out and seeing to his needs. She doesn’t have to sin. She hasn’t so far, and he is respecting that.
That says a whole lot about his character.
 
Abaddon, you are in the wrong thread. You need to go to the section on philosophy.

God bless you, and I hope you come to the TRUTH, which is indeed, ABSOLUTE
 
**Okay there are a lot of things to reply to but I will just say this:
If ‘Jellie’ were my daughter, would I want her dating this guy in the hopes of changing him?? NOPE! Then why would Christ want her dating him? You can be ‘the Gospel’ to others w/ out it being a ‘dating relationship’. 🤷

Jesus and Cherie, if you have a daughter, would you tell her to go out and date a guy that she can ‘change’ instead of dating someone who is likeminded???:confused: **
I do, indeed have a daughter. One that is very involved in the True Catholic Faith…not of any liberal ideas at all. She attends, of her own determination, 3 prayer meetings a week. She tries very much to get to Mass every day, goes to Confession regularly, sits in the Adoration Chapel often, prays the Rosary frequently.
That being said, I would CERTAINLY promote a relationship, if it was sinless, to someone who was not perfect.
She knows that she does not want to be married to someone who does not share her Catholic Faith. She is also very much aware that people aren’t created in a perfect world. Almost EVERYONE has baggage of some sort. If she cared about someone and wanted to be a light shining from a hilltop to him, I would join her in praying for him, and making sure he knew he was loved and welcomed in my home as long as he was respectful. I would search for small ways to help him to notice Christ in any and everything. I would try to be a witness of the love of Jesus Christ in our lives. And I would pray that, even if things are not to be marriage between my daughter and himself, that he had experienced the love of Jesus just from having known us. That he went away knowing that Jesus is real, and that He loves him in a very personal way.

Once again…I would not object but be welcoming…Providing he was not attempting to lead her into sin. And this guy is not attempting to do so to Jelly.:rolleyes:
 
Still, Jesus N Cherie, the fact that missionary dating is wrong has not been refuted. It cannot be, really.

Regardless of what may happen with him after they break up, it is not right for her to date him in hopes of changing him. She cannot be a “placeholder” preventing him from being with another… that is not her role!

She should be friends with him for as long as he will stick around, and this should be a long time if he genuinely cares for her. Then, through witness and example, as said before by 1ke and agapewolf, he may be brought to Christ.

I have had personal experience with this, having been in a similar position several times (though I was the guy) and, experientially, I can tell you that it is not wise to remain in such a situation. Additionally, I can tell you that some of the girls that I no longer date have remained as good friends, even if they were not Catholic, and one even came to Mass with my family and I a few weeks ago!

P.S. Not all guys look at porn… I know many who do not, including me!

P.P.S. Praise the Lord, because I am now courting a devout and most beautiful Catholic young woman! Thank you, Lord God Almighty, for your countless graces! May we all recognize that we have nothing without You, and that everything we have is a gift. May we turn to You in humility, bow down in adoration of your glory and majesty, and unconditionally offer our lives to You, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit!
 
I want to understand the mind of your boyfriend. I guess I will just type out my thoughts.

I suppose looking upon nakedness could be okay as long as it is not for the purpose of seeking only a fleshy union. (adultery of the heart) In this case, pornography (if just nakedness) may be just art. But, if it is the pornography of two becoming one flesh being just fine (which I suppose this is the case because he believes that pre-marital sex is okay), then that is not good. (most all porn is not of commited persons… not to say that is okay watch either)

Did your bf once in his lifetime go to mass regularly? When I first converted, I pushed myself to goto mass even when I felt like I didn’t want to go. That was 2-3 years ago. After much time passed, eventually I once thought too, I want to want to go to mass because I didn’t see that I really would get anything out of it anyway. Only until recently did I get to understand that closeness to God is in staying away from grievously offending God. This is apparent when three conditions are met (1) a grave matter (2) committed with full knowledge (3) committed with deliberate and complete consent.

Now, knowing that he was raised ‘catholic’, he should know the things that offend God, but could it be possible that he just doesn’t know (although the conscious is in every heart, unless he has hardened his heart to keep his position)? Grave matters are the ten commandments. adultery, murder are some examples which he may somehow not consider grave (again, not a full knowledge?). For murder, maybe he doesn’t see a fetus in the womb as a person, for whatever ‘reasons’, so he may not see it as murder (if he still considered murder wrong). Maybe he is being pressured by someone to keep his positions and thus is not deliberately doing any of those things, which i doubt cause he is a grown person. My point is, that he could still be ‘walking’ with God even though he may not show a very close walk with God.

In the following, I am pondering why he will not have a peaceable conversion with you concerning the things of the faith:
Maybe he thinks he is close enough to God? Is life on earth the only life that he sees? Maybe he considers that all that he understands up to this point in terms of ‘living well’ is enough for this life? If he considered eternal life, then does he show any sign of faith in the daily doings of life? What does he want from God? Because more than anything else Jesus came to give us eternal life. Anything in this life is temporary.

I had a friend that had a boyfriend. This was her first boyfriend. I asked her if she was going to marry him, and she said probably not. (maybe this is a similar situation) At one point, I was chatting with her online and she brought up the fact that she might break up with him. I asked her if she loved him and I don’t know if I pushed her to keep the relationship, but she ended up staying with him. I am not certain, but she was catholic at the time and I assumed she believed that pre-marital sex was wrong and they never did anything. Eventually, in the end, she did break up with her boyfriend on the grounds that he spent the night at another girls house. Again, I never asked if she and her boyfriend had been ‘physical’, but she considered this ‘spending the night’ too far because who knows what he was doing over there. But, she gleefully stated that I am young I have time to find someone. I suppose this relationship was just a memory good and bad but one to keep regardless.

This is a very different situation, but if you two are not considering a life long commitment, what is the relationship? Not to seem harsh, but in the end, what kind of commitment was it? (that is if you break up)

Anyway, you came here for the specific purpose of getting advice on how you can help your boyfriend see your views. And these views are important because they pertain to life and even eternal life. The thing is, there is nothing anyone can do even to help another ‘see’ one’s views. I have a family of non-believers, and strayed away catholics, and I love them all but there is nothing I can say that will ‘help’ them see what I see. They have to be interested. I suppose if you did ‘break up’ with your boyfriend simply on the grounds that he will not agree with you on faith and morals than you love only God. But there is a verse: If any man say, I love God, and hateth his brother; he is a liar. For he that loveth not his brother, whom he seeth, how can he love God, whom he seeth not? (1 John 4:20). I don’t want to say you should remain or leave because you will decide when either is appropriate. But, keep in mind that there is only so much we can do for anyone; just be prepared to share your positions with meekness whenever he may have an open heart; also pray for the conversion of souls. And even so it is written, And I will give you a new heart, and put a new spirit within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. (Ezekiel 36:24) And God, Who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth. (1 Timothy 2:4)

Everything will work out if you are able to keep from committing a mortal sin. Otherwise, you will end up serving that sin and no longer God. Scheduled mass attendance could be replaced by the periodic sin(s) according to the desires of the flesh.
 

DO NONE OF YOU BELIEVE IN CONVERSION OF SINNERS?******

I know personally people who were crack heads, murdering if they anyone got in their way, alcoholics who are now very devout Catholics of 10-15 years. It took people praying for them and being an example to them for their conversion to take place. These people now attend daily Masses and go to Confession often. They are wonderful people whom God is using in insurmountable ways!!!

They are the conversion stories proving that Jesus is still performing miracles today. And why should Jesus perform miracles in these people’s lives, but not in the life of this guy?

This boy isn’t a hopeless cause as you all seem to believe he is.

He sounds as if he is college age. How many people in college are totally messed up spiritually? Should we give up on them all because they are messed up right now? Should we leave them alone until they grow up? Isn’t it up to us Christians, especially those in the same age bracket, to be that light on a hill? And to provide spiritual warfare?

If everyone believed as you all seem to, who would be witnesses, because you have turned away from anyone who has any kind of real problem?!?!
This is a recipe for a lifetime of misery. What I mean is, women who get involved with men thinking they can save them invariably end up miserable.

Nobody is saying she should cast him aside and write him off. We’re saying that she shouldn’t waste her own life on something that smells like a disaster in the making.

We will always have people in our lives that we can help through corporal and spiritual acts of mercy. We don’t need to go looking for projects.
 
Just another thought. Jesus love him dearly. Try and apply the spiritual acts of mercy when you are able so that he may know the kind of love God has for him. The corporal may not be as relevant because he probably isn’t in poverty, but they are important as well.

I too need to live those mercies. =)

… I type too slow. I am editing because the person above me already said what i said.
 
That is just nonsense mate. Go study. Then you will know that Jesus is one of the most documented historical persons of that time… we have people both before and after him in time whose existence historical critical analysis/ modern history-scholars hold to be factual even if they are far less documented than Jesus of Nazareth. Man I can only hope that yous start studying or befriend some modern history students. They will tell you that your statement is so passee.

One other thing for you to understand is that you mix together statements of taste (“the color red is most beautiful” - says X) and statements of truth/values like (“God exist”)
When it comes to taste there is not objective truth… I might say darkeyed men are most handsome. You might prefer blue-eyed. However, we have to agree that matemathical results couldn’t say something else than what they do. If you have different results then you cease talking about math.
And in the same category agree that if there is a God there cant also be no God according to personal preference.
However… and I say this with no ill intent… ´people who are influenced my newage and buddhism often have a confused and contradictory world view. Eg. you can find them saying “all things are illusion” … but what to do with such an illusionary sentence? I heard one man saying “suffering is an illusion”. I wanted to take him to the cancerward where I was working at the time- Or you find them saying that all religions are true without admitting that the religions are not compatible. A friend related that buddhist inspired friend of his even both endorsed polytheism and monoteism… He said the Christian God was true, but so was the hindu-gods.
The confusion in such peoples’ heads is absolute. they make themselves gods.

Only people who are relativistic with their faith to a large extent can walk into a marriage with a person of another religion and say it causes no problems.
Look for me there is no reason to doubt that a man called Jesus who was a teacher lived during that age, quite possibly so. But Beyond biblical references and other records that are only several decades after the mans death. Well how about you tell me who recorded jesus around his life time then i will check it out?

True your right in that i was mixing up references. But something that is unfalsafiable and unknown like god may as well be equal to referencing beauty… Are faeries real? Are unicorns real? are black swans real? how would we know they are real?
If something is unfalsifiable, unproveable, how can you ever know it is real or not?

And all things are illusions, but this is my illusion, and my illusion is real for me. So when i am defining reality even if it is a dream or a matrix, it is still my reality to define…

And your last statement is very true, my mother respects and believes in the freedom of people to believe whatever they choose to… Although she has issues with someone not beleiving in anything mythical…
 
Jellie, I pray you are well. Remember to continue to stand fast in the Lord. From what I read, you are a strong women who has a good handle on her catholic faith. It appears someone has hijacked your thread with a discussion of what is real and is not real. The only thing we need to remember is God is real and he loves not only us but those who don’t acknowledge him or they do but they are not as storng and firm in the faith as they should be. I prayed for your boyfriend right before mass yesterday and I will continue to pray that his heart would soften and open up. I know power is present in pray. I would not be here (on the forums or life for that matter) with out the desperate prayers of my wife. Let me end with just a desire for encouragement for you.
 
Second, you tell her to be just his friend. Let’s be realistic again. If she were to end the “dating” relationship with him, telling him that she wants to be “just friends”, what will he do?
I will tell you exactly what he will do. He will be her friend until he finds another person to “date”.
Then Joe and Jill will most likely become involved in a physical relationship…because he has no reason to say “no” to it.
And then,
Jill will put her foot down on the friendship between he and Jelly. Why would she not? Jelly would be an ex girlfriend, and should no longer be important to him now that he has someone else. So the friendship no longer exists. There are no ties.

So, despite that everything may be all fine and well for Jelly, Joe has lost any chance to learn and experience the Truth from Jelly’s witness.
And it may well be years before he grows close with another Christian that may be a light or example for him.

Once again, it isn’t as though she were being led into sin.
This is absolutely ridiculous. This is an example of an extremely unhealthy psychologically dangerous relationship. Missionary dating is wrong! It doesn’t work! It is manipulative.

Just as if a person guilts someone into staying with them. Or saying they would die without the person. That is emotional manipulation! She cannot stay dating with the guy because of what might happen. She cannot control what he does, but she can stand strong as a witness to Christ. She can say " I will not put up with this…it is using me" and that might bring him back to reality, without her sacrificing her own well being.

Dating is NOT for saving. Dating is to find a spouse.
 
I agree… dating is not for changing the other person… neither is marriage.
The young woman here - whom we havent heard for in a while now - is accepting to become very emotionally involved with a man who does not respect the Lord and does not respect the sanctity of life and a healthy Christian sexuality.
That should make the alarm bells ring with any Christian parent or sibling.
we should not encourage young immature girls to date guys who will not treat them with respect and love them and respect them.

Consider she might evnetually be the one converted to his “religion” and not the other way around.
 
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