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jmcrae
Guest
Do you say, then, that there is another God in Heaven that they could be worshipping?
Since this is impossible, the only alternative is that they are worshipping God without realizing that He is a Trinity of Persons.
How can I reconcile Nostrae Aetate with my faith and common sense?
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Since this is impossible, the only alternative is that they are worshipping God without realizing that He is a Trinity of Persons.
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PRmerger
Guest
And some Protestants will tell us to our face that they do not worship Jesus in the Eucharist.
Who are they worshipping, then? A different Jesus? :nope:
It’s the same Jesus. They just deny a fundamental truth.
Apply this to Muslims as well.
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Mickey
Guest
No. But saying that it is a sin if you do not believe that muslims worship the same God as Christians…because it was written in a couple of modern day encyclicals…is certainly legalism.
That particular “teaching” by Paul VI is not an infallible teaching. It is not doctrine. And it is not found in Scripture or the Fathers. It was reiterated again in the CCC…but that is merely a pastoral document and many of the concepts in the CCC are not binding on RC’s.
Many Catholic laity and clergy do not accept it.
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Mickey
Guest
Sorry. You can keep hitting the protestants over the head with your Eucharist analogy…but it is apples and oranges. Protestants are Christians. They believe in Jesus Christ. Muslims reject Christ completely…in every aspect.
Your paradigm is broken.
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Mickey
Guest
I do not accept the RC concept of invincible ignorance.
Is that what you say NA is referring to…invincible ignorance?
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jmcrae
Guest
Most of our teachings are not infallibly defined. The fact remains that there is only one God in Heaven - not two, or more.
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SteveVH
Guest
Is the Father not God?
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Mickey
Guest
And He is a Trinitarian God…not the god that Mohammed revealed from messages he received in a cave.
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SteveVH
Guest
Wow, just saw this. Are you trying to tell me that you know who is damned and who is not?
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Mickey
Guest
I can’t speak for Gaelic…but I think he may be thinking more or less along these lines:
**Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me. **
Jn 14:6
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jmcrae
Guest
I have no idea what Mohammed was doing in that cave - I doubt he was receiving messages of any kind, especially since the Koran reads uncannily like the writings of the heretic Arius - that aside, modern-day Muslims do, in fact, believe in a God who created the Universe. This is the sum total of what the document is telling us. It doesn’t speculate whether Muslims can be saved, although it proposes that we hope they can be - presumably by joining the RCIA and getting baptized, but if not, then in some other way known only to God.
But we cannot say that they worship “another God” without falling into the error of saying that there is more than one God.
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Eufrosnia
Guest
First of all I must say that I sympathize with your question since I have had the same issue for sometime. I think it helps if you realize that it requires a shift in perception as to how the Church is approaching this question to better appreciate what the document is saying.
So lets first take two examples which will help clarify this issue.
Take the example of a Protestant. He believes in being saved by faith alone. Does not believe in a Purgatory. Does not believe in 7 books of the Bible as being Divinely inspired and rejects the Church as being the Church of Christ. But we still do consider them to be praying to the same God. We even consider them to be praying to Jesus as well though we consider their view of what Jesus taught to be in error.
Now take the example of Jews. They reject that God sent his own son. They also reject everything else associated with his coming including that of the New Testament. YET, we consider them to be worshiping the same God though they are in error regarding who God is i.e. that God DID send his son and was present among us in this way.
In the same way, you have Muslims. They think that God revealed himself through the Koran. That Christ was just a prophet. They too have erroneous view on who God is. Yet, in the same way that we say Protestants, Jews worship the same God, we can say that Muslims too worship the same God. They just have an erroneous view of who Christ is.
Now this form of language is only good at times for ecumenical reasons for it can hide away the greater differences between us and we can use it as a common ground. But in terms of educating a Catholic about Islam, it is perhaps better to show the differences so they are aware why one should not become Muslim. Otherwise, if one simply says to a child “Muslims and us, we worship the same God”, he/she will wonder why they can’t pray in the Mosque instead or contract a marriage with a Muslim.
In this way, what we must recognize is that there is a common ground in that we all worship the same God but everyone other than Catholics have serious issues about their understanding of God.
So I think if we understand the perspective of the Church, we will be able to see what Nostrae Aetate is saying. Hope that clarified your issue.
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Eufrosnia
Guest
Um… I don’t think Islam was even around in the time when the OT was written… The birth of Islam is around the 6th century.
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Mickey
Guest
I can most assuredly say that they do not worship the Trinitarian God…the true God. Therefore they are worshipping something else…I don’t know who or what.
You may believe what you must.
I would have to go to confession if I professed that I thought they worshipped the same God as the Christians.
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Eufrosnia
Guest
Well no one knows if Muslims are going to heaven. As far as we are concerned, the best bet to getting to heaven is if someone is Catholic. Or at least the best bet to having a good understanding of moral life is if one listens to the Church (Its not a secret that there are devout Muslims who think it brings God pleasure if they murder a lot of infidels). Hence we must always try to evangelize them when presented with the opportunity. We can start our conversations by using the common ground i.e. “we both believe in the same God, right?..”
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Timothysis
Guest
Wow! I don’t get that very often here…actually, I usually get the opposite!!! 
I said that, though, because the more I learned about our Catholic faith the more I realized that the simple, basically elementary positions that most Catholics never get past finally get to a point where they simply don’t satisfy any longer. Learning on your own via books and the internet is a double-edged sword; you have to be careful with what you learn and make sure you learn it correctly. CAF was very enlightening because of certain very knowledgeable posters and, most especially, that pesky Franciscan Brother Jay! Brother Jay’s extensive knowledge of the Church and theology has really been a boon to everyone here. (We should all be very grateful to him).
My point is that the Catholic faith is much deeper than the simple Baltimore Catechisms and it is much more than codes, canons encyclicals. It often times takes more than an hour or two searching the internet to understand her teachings.
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Eric_Hilbert
Guest
Sorry to interupt the thread.
Only slightly pruned.
Stay on the topic of the OP please and continue to post with charity as per CAF rules.
Only slightly pruned.
Stay on the topic of the OP please and continue to post with charity as per CAF rules.
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SteveVH
Guest
God draws all people to himself. If a Muslim is being drawn to God then he is being drawn to Jesus Christ even without realizing it; there is only one God. We have a God who died once, for ALL. He is a God that will go out of his way to save his children.
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Edmundus1581
Guest
The OP has not yet responded to our answers, most of which have treated his/her question seriously.
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SteveVH
Guest
Amazingly, this thread only started yesterday so there’s still a chance. I feel like I’ve been here a week. :coffeeread:
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