How can Jesus Christ be the One True Almighty God?

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That is a good point that I never thought of. Can I use this point with my friend? I have never found scriptures where Jesus tells people He is just Michael the Archangel. Jesus never goes around telling people He is the Messiah but demonstrates that He is. He was constantly frustrating the religious leaders of the day by never out rightly telling them He was the Messiah. Incidentally being the Messiah was being God in the OT biblical mindset.

What makes it difficult dialoging with JW’s is the scriptures have been edited to divert Jesus divinity from Him. John 1:1 and Rev 1:8 are a couple that come to mind but there are many more revisions than these. However there are still many scriptures left that point to Jesus’ divinity. Another strategy they employ is to change the definitions of words. Where Jesus is worshipped numerous times they say it only means to do obeisance. Not actually worship in the true sense of the word. However in Mat 4:10 we are told to only worship Jehovah and rightly so. The word used for worshipping Jesus and God are one in the same. So we can see their attempt to change the definition of the word worship is nothing more than a word game.
JW use a Gospel passage in which Jesus speaks about seeing Satan fall out heaven & uses a passage from Revelations in which St. Michael an Archangel kicks Satan out of heaven. In other words they do use the Bible to come up with their doctrine, but logic tells us that just because someone witnessed an event doesn’t mean they are the one who caused that same event.
 
Through out all of scripture God has been gracious enough to condesend when communicating with us, this has been nessecery so that we may understand the immutable,infinite, eternal diety.
This is also true of the incarnation, as the revieled Messiah, Jesus Christ. As St John points out in verse 18 of the prologe to his gospel “no one has ever seen God, it has been left to the only begoten son who dwells within the boosem of God to reveal him”.
Jesus is God known to our limited understanding, he is not staring into the abyss.
 
**That is a good point that I never thought of. Can I use this point with my friend? ** I have never found scriptures where Jesus tells people He is just Michael the Archangel. Jesus never goes around telling people He is the Messiah but demonstrates that He is. He was constantly frustrating the religious leaders of the day by never out rightly telling them He was the Messiah. Incidentally being the Messiah was being God in the OT biblical mindset.

What makes it difficult dialoging with JW’s is the scriptures have been edited to divert Jesus divinity from Him. John 1:1 and Rev 1:8 are a couple that come to mind but there are many more revisions than these. However there are still many scriptures left that point to Jesus’ divinity. Another strategy they employ is to change the definitions of words. Where Jesus is worshipped numerous times they say it only means to do obeisance. Not actually worship in the true sense of the word. However in Mat 4:10 we are told to only worship Jehovah and rightly so. The word used for worshipping Jesus and God are one in the same. So we can see their attempt to change the definition of the word worship is nothing more than a word game.
By all means, go for it. Ask you buddy the same question. Furthermore, I ask your buddy this question:

If Jesus is only a perfect creature, then why would he say: I am “the” Truth, “the” Way, and “the” Life.

Emphasize the adjective “the” in that scripture passage. No other prophets ever make such a declaration.

Note: Other OT prophets and folks such as Buddha, Muhammad,Confucius,etc,etc all claimed knowing about the Truth, but Jesus said he was THE Truth. Meaning what? That he is God incarnated and only God can make such a declaration.

God Bless
 
As a Protestant Christian I am convinced by Sacred Scripture that Jesus is the “One True God” and that in the mystery of the Most Holy Trinity that “God the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit” are in fact “one GOD”.

John 1:1 - 5
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

John 1:14
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 10:30
30 I and the Father are one.
 
Regarding the JW teaching that Jesus is Michael the Arc Angel I like to read them Exodus 33- In this chapter God is deciding what to do with the isralites for thier sin of worshiping the Golden Calf. And he says to Mosses to continue onto the land that he had promised them but he would not be going and that he would send an Angel to guide them instead. Where upon Mosses says that if God does not go then they will not be going either and that they would remain where they are.
I then read Hebrews 8:6 were Paul explains that Christ has established for us a better covernet based on better promises.

I then ask them. If the ancient Isralites rejected being part of a covernent established by an Angel during the Exodus and insisted upon God’s pressence then why would God establish his new covernent with us, the New Israel, through an Angel when this plan was clearly rejected when he was establishing his covernent with the ancient isralites? and if our Covernent is a better Covernent established on better promises then surly having an Angel administering it, instead of GOD himself, clearly makes our covernent not a better one?
 
Regarding the JW teaching that Jesus is Michael the Arc Angel I like to read them Exodus 33- In this chapter God is deciding what to do with the isralites for thier sin of worshiping the Golden Calf. And he says to Mosses to continue onto the land that he had promised them but he would not be going and that he would send an Angel to guide them instead. Where upon Mosses says that if God does not go then they will not be going either and that they would remain where they are.
I then read Hebrews 8:6 were Paul explains that Christ has established for us a better covernet based on better promises.

I then ask them. If the ancient Isralites rejected being part of a covernent established by an Angel during the Exodus and insisted upon God’s pressence then why would God establish his new covernent with us, the New Israel, through an Angel when this plan was clearly rejected when he was establishing his covernent with the ancient isralites? and if our Covernent is a better Covernent established on better promises then surly having an Angel administering it, instead of GOD himself, clearly makes our covernent not a better one?
Yes, they suffer from a malady common among Restorationist faith traditions. They perceive no difference between divine nature, angelic nature and human nature. They see no reason why Jesus could not be an angel.
 
By all means, go for it. Ask you buddy the same question. Furthermore, I ask your buddy this question:

If Jesus is only a perfect creature, then why would he say: I am “the” Truth, “the” Way, and “the” Life.

Emphasize the adjective “the” in that scripture passage. No other prophets ever make such a declaration.

Note: Other OT prophets and folks such as Buddha, Muhammad,Confucius,etc,etc all claimed knowing about the Truth, but Jesus said he was THE Truth. Meaning what? That he is God incarnated and only God can make such a declaration.

God Bless
Thanks. I have brought this passage up before and never really got an answer. At the very least Jesus is making Himself equal to God which is blasphemy if He was not Himself God.
Regarding the JW teaching that Jesus is Michael the Arc Angel I like to read them Exodus 33- In this chapter God is deciding what to do with the isralites for thier sin of worshiping the Golden Calf. And he says to Mosses to continue onto the land that he had promised them but he would not be going and that he would send an Angel to guide them instead. Where upon Mosses says that if God does not go then they will not be going either and that they would remain where they are.
I then read Hebrews 8:6 were Paul explains that Christ has established for us a better covernet based on better promises.

I then ask them. If the ancient Isralites rejected being part of a covernent established by an Angel during the Exodus and insisted upon God’s pressence then why would God establish his new covernent with us, the New Israel, through an Angel when this plan was clearly rejected when he was establishing his covernent with the ancient isralites? and if our Covernent is a better Covernent established on better promises then surly having an Angel administering it, instead of GOD himself, clearly makes our covernent not a better one?
Another good point, why would the new covenant which is a better covenant than the former be established in Christ Jesus (a so called angel and created being). All the former covenants were established through Jehovah. That again would make Jesus equal to the Father. Just as God could swear by no name greater than Himself with Abram so in the Name of Jesus a more excellent covenant is established.
 
Thanks. I have brought this passage up before and never really got an answer. At the very least Jesus is making Himself equal to God which is blasphemy if He was not Himself God.

Another good point, why would the new covenant which is a better covenant than the former be established in Christ Jesus (a so called angel and created being). All the former covenants were established through Jehovah. That again would make Jesus equal to the Father. Just as God could swear by no name greater than Himself with Abram so in the Name of Jesus a more excellent covenant is established.
JW’s theology is like Swiss cheese…full of holes! 😃
 
JW’s theology is like Swiss cheese…full of holes! 😃
If only one could get them to see the holes.
That’s what also helped draw me back into the Church was that for every preceived hole there was something there.
 
If only one could get them to see the holes.
That’s what also helped draw me back into the Church was that for every preceived hole there was something there.
First they must understand that holes exist and must be able to comprehend them.
 
First they must understand that holes exist and must be able to comprehend them.
This I would agree is the key to discussions with a JW. They Watchtower is infallible if you are a witness. If you come to a different conclusion on theological beliefs or interpreting scripture, you are not allowed to speak up about your own personal discoveries without fear of being disfellowshipped and shunned. The changing of their beliefs over time, their many failed prophecies predicting the end of the world, would be enough for anyone with their eyes open to walk away from this false prophet.
 
One way would be to give them Charles Russel’s books to look through. Don’t let them know that none of it is taught anymore, then if they are intelligent enough it will expose those holes. All witnesses think that he founded their beliefs and only had minor wrong ideas, not that he has completely become obsolete.
 
The changing of their beliefs over time, their many failed prophecies predicting the end of the world, would be enough for anyone with their eyes open to walk away from this false prophet.
You know, I certainly understand why you say this and there is probably a nugget of truth there, but lately I have really been pondering something that still has me baffled. And this could really apply to many if not all faiths, not just JW’s. To be honest it began while participating on Mormon threads.

What puzzles me and kind of scares me at the same time is that intelligence seems to have nothing to do with a person’s beliefs. Mitt Romney is not a stupid man. I agree with him on many things and he certainly has the capability to use logic and reason. I am pretty much in agreement with Oren Hatch on most issues. Both of these men are intelligent, seemingly well reasoned men. And they are Mormon. When I consider some of the beliefs of Mormons and JW’s as well, I wonder if this person has lost the gift of reason. How, I wonder, can anyone believe what they believe and be living in the same world as me? But they do live in the same world and they are as intelligent as the next person. And they draw completely different conclusions as to what is true. That aspect of human nature frightens me.

So what is the deal? Are we all susceptible to falling into false doctrine or is there something lacking in those that do? They seem to have all of their faculties. And they can look across the room and say the same thing about me. How can Steve really believe all that Catholic stuff? What is it within us that allows people of the same intelligence, in the same culture, with access to the same information, to view truth in such dramatically different ways? I wish someone could answer that question.
 
This is the question I’ve been hearing so much lately: How can Jesus possibly be the One True God?

This is coming from their (Jehovah’s Witnesses, Remenant Fellowship members, Pentacostals & Muslims) point of view that:

1.God is All-Knowing yet Jesus “learned” and also specifically admitted to Not Knowing things, like when the end of the world would be
  1. Jesus never once (in plain language) ever claimed to be God - they say if that were the case, He would have said it clearly so that there would never be any confusion as to Who He claimed to be
  2. His Apostles, through St. Peter’s mouth, when asked directly said that they knew Him to be the Son of God (not God Himself), the exact same term used for King David and the ancient Israelists
God is three persons. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
 
Jesus is the beloved son of God but not the almighty God. However, God game him the power to forgave sins, resurrected the dead (Lazarus), healed the sicks and did other miracles ( like turning water into win at the Cana wedding)
 
Jesus is the beloved son of God but not the almighty God. However, God game him the power to forgave sins, resurrected the dead (Lazarus), healed the sicks and did other miracles ( like turning water into win at the Cana wedding)
Excuse me? I see that you claim to be Catholic. I think you better study up on your theology. Jesus is the great “I AM”, the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last. Jesus is the creator of the universe. Jesus is the second Person of the Trinity. He certainly is the Almighty God. The only difference between the Father and Jesus is their relationship. There is only one God. You cannot separate the Father from the Son without God dividing himself and that is an impossibility.
 
Jesus is the beloved son of God but not the almighty God. However, God game him the power to forgave sins, resurrected the dead (Lazarus), healed the sicks and did other miracles ( like turning water into win at the Cana wedding)
There are two main problems with the Jehovah’s Witness theology that are tough to work though when discussing the matter of Jesus being God:
  1. Jehovah’s Witnesses demand that no doctrine cause confusion to the limits of the human mind.
  2. Jehovah’s Witnesses forget that the expression “Son of God” is a play on words both in Semitic terms and, at the same time, heathen religion.
Human limits on God: As their New World Translation puts it: “God is [a God], not of disorder, but of peace.” (1 Corinthians 14:33) The JW uses this verse as a definition for what type of doctrine is allowed and what must be dismissed. If a doctrine transcends human reasoning, states official JW doctrine, this could not come from a God of order. Since the Trinity confuses the human mind and cannot make sense according to reason as a mortal can conceive it, the Trinity doctrine must be false.

Part of the appeal of the JW religion is that it sets limits on God and tosses all ambiguity out. For the Witness faith is not something that co-exists in the face of doubt, instead faith is knowing the absolute unquestionable truth or facts.

This of course means you don’t need faith or hope, but that’s a totally different subject for another thread.

“Son” has to mean what it does in English: This is the problem that even we Catholics sometimes forget.

The reason we know Jesus is God is because that is what the Semitic word “Son” means in this case. To be a “son” of something or someone meant you were one-and-the-same with the subject or were an incarnation of the subject.

For example, Jesus mentions in prayer in John 17 that all the apostles are safe but one, Judas Iscariot. But Jesus doesn’t call Judas by name. Instead he calls Judas “the son of destruction.” (John 17:12) Christ is often recorded as referring to himself as the “Son of Man” and is often called “Son of David,” and at his death a heathen is recorded as saying that Jesus truly was “the Son of God” at Matthew 27:54.

In all these expressions the word “son” never means a direct or immediate descendent of the subject “father.” Jesus is no more the immediate descendent of King David as Judas is not a literal “son of destruction,” as if destruction were something that could procreate. No, the term means that Jesus is the equivalent or fullness of what King David was, namely the Messiah and that Jesus was the Greater Adam of 1 Corinthians 15:22, 45 (the word “man” in “Son of Man” literally means “Son of Adam”). And as Judas was the incarnation of “destruction” by his actions, Jesus was the incarnation of God–”son of destruction”=Judas, “Son of God,” Jesus.

There is one other play on words going on. In the first century the Caesars claimed the title “Divi filius” for themselves. It is Latin for “son of God.” You see the Caesars claimed to be mundane incarnations of a greater divine self that they returned to being upon their death. When the emperor was with his subjects on earth, humans were witnessing a human form or a god in the state of being a “human son.”

When the Roman army officer who witnessed the events of Jesus’ death stated that Jesus must have been God’s Son at Matthew 27:54, he was using the word “Son” in the Roman emperor sense, meaning Jesus was the incarnation of God himself.

Of course to the JW, “son” has to mean a literal immediate offspring and only that in the case of Jesus, even though John 17:12 calls Judas the “son of destruction” in the own New World Translation.

And the reason why it has to mean this to the JW is because they are not comfortable with embracing the transcendence of God, nor do they accept mystery and the incapacity of human intellect to fully deal with God as holy.

For them God has to be controlled by proof texts and the scope of human reasoning.

Since neither exists for the fullness of the Trinity, the Witness dismisses it.
 
There are two main problems with the Jehovah’s Witness theology that are tough to work though when discussing the matter of Jesus being God:
  1. Jehovah’s Witnesses demand that no doctrine cause confusion to the limits of the human mind.
  2. Jehovah’s Witnesses forget that the expression “Son of God” is a play on words both in Semitic terms and, at the same time, heathen religion.
Human limits on God: As their New World Translation puts it: “God is [a God], not of disorder, but of peace.” (1 Corinthians 14:33) The JW uses this verse as a definition for what type of doctrine is allowed and what must be dismissed. If a doctrine transcends human reasoning, states official JW doctrine, this could not come from a God of order. Since the Trinity confuses the human mind and cannot make sense according to reason as a mortal can conceive it, the Trinity doctrine must be false.

Part of the appeal of the JW religion is that it sets limits on God and tosses all ambiguity out. For the Witness faith is not something that co-exists in the face of doubt, instead faith is knowing the absolute unquestionable truth or facts.

This of course means you don’t need faith or hope, but that’s a totally different subject for another thread.

“Son” has to mean what it does in English: This is the problem that even we Catholics sometimes forget.

The reason we know Jesus is God is because that is what the Semitic word “Son” means in this case. To be a “son” of something or someone meant you were one-and-the-same with the subject or were an incarnation of the subject.

For example, Jesus mentions in prayer in John 17 that all the apostles are safe but one, Judas Iscariot. But Jesus doesn’t call Judas by name. Instead he calls Judas “the son of destruction.” (John 17:12) Christ is often recorded as referring to himself as the “Son of Man” and is often called “Son of David,” and at his death a heathen is recorded as saying that Jesus truly was “the Son of God” at Matthew 27:54.

In all these expressions the word “son” never means a direct or immediate descendent of the subject “father.” Jesus is no more the immediate descendent of King David as Judas is not a literal “son of destruction,” as if destruction were something that could procreate. No, the term means that Jesus is the equivalent or fullness of what King David was, namely the Messiah and that Jesus was the Greater Adam of 1 Corinthians 15:22, 45 (the word “man” in “Son of Man” literally means “Son of Adam”). And as Judas was the incarnation of “destruction” by his actions, Jesus was the incarnation of God–”son of destruction”=Judas, “Son of God,” Jesus.

There is one other play on words going on. In the first century the Caesars claimed the title “Divi filius” for themselves. It is Latin for “son of God.” You see the Caesars claimed to be mundane incarnations of a greater divine self that they returned to being upon their death. When the emperor was with his subjects on earth, humans were witnessing a human form or a god in the state of being a “human son.”

When the Roman army officer who witnessed the events of Jesus’ death stated that Jesus must have been God’s Son at Matthew 27:54, he was using the word “Son” in the Roman emperor sense, meaning Jesus was the incarnation of God himself.

Of course to the JW, “son” has to mean a literal immediate offspring and only that in the case of Jesus, even though John 17:12 calls Judas the “son of destruction” in the own New World Translation.

And the reason why it has to mean this to the JW is because they are not comfortable with embracing the transcendence of God, nor do they accept mystery and the incapacity of human intellect to fully deal with God as holy.

For them God has to be controlled by proof texts and the scope of human reasoning.

Since neither exists for the fullness of the Trinity, the Witness dismisses it.
One of the most informative and to the point posts I have ever read. :bowdown: The only trick now is to have a Witness actually contemplate these points.

Welcome to CAF and I look forward to your future posts.

God bless,

Steve
 
The unbelieving Jews, the Muslims, the JWs and others who deny the Divinity of Christ are doing so because of their darkened minds. Both St. Peter and St. Paul talk about those who twist Scripture and distort it into falsehood, to their own destruction.

God knows whether these individuals are honest in their failed attempts to recognize Jesus as God or whether they intentionally twist Scripture to that end.

ComeHome2Rome, I think this is the answer you’re looking for, because all of the bountiful proofs you’ve been given above towards Christ’s Divinity probably won’t do these people any good. The see them and they deny them.
 
I AM the Way the Truth and the Life. The Lord said; “I AM” God, in person stating this, the truth, which He is “the Truth”, the spiritual in person, in reality. What is He saying but, I AM God, thus the only Truth, and this is indeed the only Way.

Lucifers favorite play in the playbook, turn man away from God.
 
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