How can people say homosexuality doesn't hurt anyone

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BrassAnkles said:
St. Paul would not tolerate anyone claiming SSA was normal.
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Another red herring. I never said SSA was normal.
As far as your own case you state that you resist your SSA, which is good, but then are on this forum defending SSA almost as much as anyone in the gay lobby. The Catholic Church rejects this per the pastoral letter I provided.
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How do I defend SSA? I say it is a fallen inclination that can only produce ANY good results because of God’s grace, but that is – in itself – bad. I agree 100% with the Church that the attraction to a same-sex sexual relationship is a “more or less strong tendency directed toward an intrinsic moral evil”.
I expect this could be a reason why your SSA persists, because of your sympathy/support for it. I urge you to reject this notion. Whether you fail or not carrying your cross is of little consequence because Jesus does not condemn us when we repent, **therefore there is no reason to make SSA less evil than it is. ** Jesus doesn’t want us to mitigate our sins AS THERE IS NO NEED TO BECAUSE HE PAYED THE PRICE FOR US.
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The sign of a Pelagian is this: whenever someone says they continue to struggle, this is blamed on the struggler. It’s the prosperity gospel, and it has been roundly and repeatedly condemned by the Catholic Church.

If you are right, my friend, then the Church has been wrong ever since Augustine.
 
“Homosexual people are called to enact the will of God in their life by joining whatever sufferings and difficulties they experience in virtue of their condition to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross.”

Agree or disagree?
 
Prodigal_Son said:
Does that mean “homosexuality” hurts people? We get into trouble here, because the word “homosexuality” is ambiguous. It could mean “the attraction to the same sex” or it could mean “sexual activity between people of the same sex”. Obviously, Catholics must say that same-sex sexual activity hurts people. It’s not as clear about the attraction, whether that hurts people.
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In my opinion, the Catholic position on this issue is untenable. Trying to distinguish between inclinations which are disordered but not sinful and actions which are sinful will confuse most people, even many Catholics, unless they are educated in “speaking Catholic”. Many will not really make the distinction. Also, no one living in the first century such as Paul would have understood this way of thinking about sexuality which is a modern Catholic invention.

The Baptists I grew up with had it much easier since for them both homosexual inclinations and homosexual actions are equally sinful and the only good Christian is a heterosexual one. That’s why they send gay people to reparative therapy.

Even the Catholic Church admits that homosexuality might be innate. According to Persona Humana:
A distinction is drawn, and it seems with some reason, between homosexuals whose tendency comes from a false education, from a lack of normal sexual development, from habit, from bad example, or from other similar causes, and is transitory or at least not incurable; and homosexuals who are definitively such because of some kind of innate instinct or a pathological constitution judged to be incurable.
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vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19751229_persona-humana_en.html

So if homosexual inclinations are innate (i.e. people are “born that way”), then why would God have allowed this but then forbade those so afflicted from acting on that inclination?

This battle is already lost for the Catholic Church, especially among young people, including young Catholics. That’s why, according to a recent Pew Research Center survey:
Fully 85% of self-identified Catholics ages 18-29 said in a 2014 Pew Research Center survey that homosexuality should be accepted by society, compared with just 13% who said it should be discouraged. Older age groups are less likely to favor acceptance. But even among Catholics ages 65 and older, 57% say that homosexuality should be accepted.
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Some of these differences may correlate with the frequency of church attendance. Our research has found that older Catholics attend Mass more frequently than do their younger counterparts, and that Catholics who attend Mass at least weekly are more likely to say that homosexuality should be discouraged than those who do not. But even among churchgoing Catholics of all ages – that is, those who attend Mass at least weekly – roughly twice as many say homosexuality should be accepted (60%) as say it should be discouraged (31%).
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Similarly, despite the church’s continued opposition to same-sex marriage, most U.S. Catholics (57%) favor allowing gay and lesbian couples to legally wed, according toaggregated 2014 Pew Research surveys. And again, younger Catholics are particularly likely to express this view. Three-quarters of Catholic adults under 30 support legal same-sex marriage, compared with 53% of Catholics ages 30 and older (including just 38% of those 65 and older).
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pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/16/young-u-s-catholics-overwhelmingly-accepting-of-homosexuality/
 
Thorolfr said:
In my opinion, the Catholic position on this issue is untenable. Trying to distinguish between inclinations which are disordered but not sinful and actions which are sinful will confuse most people, even many Catholics, unless they are educated in “speaking Catholic”. Many will not really make the distinction. Also, no one living in the first century such as Paul would have understood this way of thinking about sexuality which is a modern Catholic invention.

The Baptists I grew up with had it much easier since for them both homosexual inclinations and homosexual actions are equally sinful and the only good Christian is a heterosexual one. That’s why they send gay people to reparative therapy.

Even the Catholic Church admits that homosexuality might be innate. According to Persona Humana:

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19751229_persona-humana_en.html

So if homosexual inclinations are innate (i.e. people are “born that way”), then why would God have allowed this but then forbade those so afflicted from acting on that inclination?

This battle is already lost for the Catholic Church, especially among young people, including young Catholics. That’s why, according to a recent Pew Research Center survey:

pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/16/young-u-s-catholics-overwhelmingly-accepting-of-homosexuality/
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I reported your post. I refuse to stand by and watch you constantly trying to undermine Catholic teaching.
 
Catholic13 said:
I reported your post. I refuse to stand by and watch you constantly trying to undermine Catholic teaching.
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Then you should try to defend Catholic teaching. But as a non-Catholic, it looks increasingly undefendable to me. But this is only my opinion. Still, even many Catholics seem confused about what the official position of the Church is and often fail to separate not sinful but disordered inclinations from sinful actions.
 
Thorolfr said:
So if homosexual inclinations are innate (i.e. people are “born that way”), then why would God have allowed this but then forbade those so afflicted from acting on that inclination?
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Because innate does not equal moral. Heterosexuals have an innate need/desire to have sexual interactions with other heterosexuals. This innate need/desire does not invalidate the immorality of having sexual interactions with others outside the non-innate confines of marriage.
 
oldcatholicguy said:
Because innate does not equal moral. Heterosexuals have an innate need/desire to have sexual interactions with other heterosexuals. This innate need/desire does not invalidate the immorality of having sexual interactions with others outside the non-innate confines of marriage.
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That’s different because no one has said that an innate heterosexual inclination is disordered. But a homosexual inclination, even an innate one, is considered disordered according to the Church. So if homosexuality is innate (i.e. someone is born that way), then why would God make someone with a disordered inclination? According to Isaiah 64:8, “Yet, O Lord, you are our Father; we are the clay, and you are our potter; we are all the work of your hand.” So if an innate homosexual inclination is a defect, that would be implying that God has made a defective work.
 
Thorolfr said:
Could I be sinning against the faith even though I’m not Catholic?
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I was talking to the Catholic user, but I guess you could be since there is Scriptural evidence (like Sodom and Gomorrha) saying that it is wrong.
 
Thorolfr said:
That’s different because no one has said that an innate heterosexual inclination is disordered. But a homosexual inclination, even an innate one, is considered disordered according to the Church. So if homosexuality is innate (i.e. someone is born that way), then why would God make someone with a disordered inclination? According to Isaiah 64:8, “Yet, O Lord, you are our Father; we are the clay, and you are our potter; we are all the work of your hand.” So if an innate homosexual inclination is a defect, that would be implying that God has made a defective work.
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Ok, what about those of us who have innate physical and/or mental disorders? People are “born that way” with mental disorders that make them more inclined to undertake immoral actions than those born without these disorders. Is the Church’s teaching that killing oneself is always immoral incorrect in regards to people born with mental disorders that make them more inclined to take their own life? Your “born that way so it’s ok” argument only works if we assume that God wants us to be no more than talking animals.
 
cena said:
I was talking to the Catholic user, but I guess you could be since there is Scriptural evidence (like Sodom and Gomorrha) saying that it is wrong.
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This is absurd. It’s called evangelism. It involves listening to another person, and allowing them to disagree.

If you can’t be an evangelist, you can’t be Catholic either. 🤷
 
oldcatholicguy said:
Ok, what about those of us who have innate physical and/or mental disorders? People are “born that way” with mental disorders that make them more inclined to undertake immoral actions than those born without these disorders. Is the Church’s teaching that killing oneself is always immoral incorrect in regards to people born with mental disorders that make them more inclined to take their own life? Your “born that way so it’s ok” argument only works if we assume that God wants us to be no more than talking animals.
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People with mental disorders are less culpable for their actions. It does not make them okay but they are not as responsible as someone who commits suicide without those circumstances
 
Thorolfr said:
That’s different because no one has said that an innate heterosexual inclination is disordered. But a homosexual inclination, even an innate one, is considered disordered according to the Church. So if homosexuality is innate (i.e. someone is born that way), then why would God make someone with a disordered inclination? According to Isaiah 64:8, “Yet, O Lord, you are our Father; we are the clay, and you are our potter; we are all the work of your hand.” So if an innate homosexual inclination is a defect, that would be implying that God has made a defective work.
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I know someone who has experienced attraction to boys since he himself was a boy. Does this make an attraction to children properly ordered?
 
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