How can the Collapse of the Liturgy be reversed?

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Cardinal Ratzinger, now our Holy Father, wrote in 1998 “I am convinced that the ecclesial crisis in which we find ourselves today depends in great part upon the collapse of the liturgy”. So the pope sees the collapse of the liturgy as a fact.

My question is simple: how can this collapse of the liturgy be reversed?
 
Our Pope is working on it, slowly but surely. Something that took 30+ years to collapse can’t be rebuilt in a day.
 
But, the Holy Father cannot do this by his own. He needs to have the support of everyone, from the bishops to the priests to the laity. Documents like Redemptionis Sacramentum and the GIRM need to be followed. The faithful also need to asert their right to have the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass celebrated in the manner and form prescribed by the Church.

Furthermore, dioceses can do their part by including sound liturgical formation programs in their Adult Religious Education curriculum. Pastors can educate their flock through bulletin inserts from bona fide sources in line with the Holy See. Bishops can invest some time in personal catechesis with their faithful, either through articles written for the diocesan newspaper or weekly programming in the diocesan radio station (if such exists in the diocese).

A friend of mine is going to begin to write articles for the local independent newspaper since our diocesan publication isn’t getting the job done. She figures that she can do her part to educate the community about the Mass. I say more power to her.👍
 
Here’s what I suggest (and am doing):
  • Ask your pastor what programs are being offered (or can be offered) to help catechize the parish regarding the liturgy and its reverent celebration.
  • Read Vatican II’s document on the liturgy, Sacrosanctum Concilium. Better yet, read and study it with us! (See my signature for the link.)
  • Make sure your active participation in the Mass is properly done: don’t change the words from the official ones (don’t add or subtract or change words), make the proper gestures and assume the proper postures at the proper times. Learn about the proper Order of Mass.
  • Pray before and after Mass, especially for the intentions of the Holy Father regarding the liturgy. Even better, pray for your own intentions regarding the restoration of the sacred liturgy! (The Adoremus Bulletin has a “Novena for Renewal of the Sacred Liturgy”.)
  • Read more about the liturgy (whether from blogs, Catholic news sources, or Church documents). Make it the source and summit of your Catholic life (if it isn’t already)!
Please do me a favor: don’t get this or any other Liturgy & Sacraments thread locked or deleted!
 
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One giant step would be to hire only “liturgists” who are clerics or laypersons with advanced degrees in liturgy – or even any bachelors degree in liturgy or even theology.

Far too many self-proclaimed “experts” out there who lack the expertise to do what they feel they are experts at doing. Sadly, they are blind to their own shortcomings and typically focus on other people as being the problem when they should be looking inward.

Oh yeah, and PRAY.
 
Rickwood said:
One giant step would be to hire only “liturgists” who are clerics or laypersons with advanced degrees in liturgy – or even any bachelors degree in liturgy or even theology.

Far too many self-proclaimed “experts” out there who lack the expertise to do what they feel they are experts at doing. Sadly, they are blind to their own shortcomings and typically focus on other people as being the problem when they should be looking inward.

Oh yeah, and PRAY.
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Unfortunatly, many parishes do not feel that such a person is really needed and will take the help of any volunteer who attended a few workshops.
 
Rickwood said:
One giant step would be to hire only “liturgists” who are clerics or laypersons with advanced degrees in liturgy – or even any bachelors degree in liturgy or even theology.

Far too many self-proclaimed “experts” out there who lack the expertise to do what they feel they are experts at doing. Sadly, they are blind to their own shortcomings and typically focus on other people as being the problem when they should be looking inward.

Oh yeah, and PRAY.
Click to expand...
Do you have evidence that people with advanced degrees in liturgy are, in total, actually part of the solution, as opposed to part of the problem? Seriously. Have you taken note of the state of Catholic higher education in the past few decades?
 
Rickwood said:
One giant step would be to hire only “liturgists” who are clerics or laypersons with advanced degrees in liturgy – or even any bachelors degree in liturgy or even theology.

Far too many self-proclaimed “experts” out there who lack the expertise to do what they feel they are experts at doing. Sadly, they are blind to their own shortcomings and typically focus on other people as being the problem when they should be looking inward.

Oh yeah, and PRAY.
Click to expand...
In todays Church that is no guarantee of orthodoxy in following the Church directives.

As to the rest of your post —I suggest you heed Japhy’s request.

“Please do me a favor: don’t get this or any other Liturgy & Sacraments thread locked or deleted!”
 
Also, in suggesting or requesting liturgical changes (or “corrections”) to your priest, pastor, or liturgical committee (aimed at a more reverent and proper celebration of the Mass), don’t press for too many changes too quickly. Go slowly, cover one or two things at a time.

Don’t expect next week’s Mass to be ad orientem with chant and incense galore. You could reasonably expect there won’t be pouring of the Precious Blood and that the priest will wear the proper vestments (in the proper order), for example.

And spread out the changes so that the parish can get used to them. The 60’s were full of new changes piled upon earlier changes that had not really settled in yet.

Ok, perhaps I’ve gone into the “liturgical planner” end. Sorry; I’m not officially licensed to do this. 😉 Pray for this, though!

Please do me a favor: don’t get this or any other Liturgy & Sacraments thread locked or deleted!
 
“Say the Black, Do the Red” is great. . .

for the parishes that have missals of some type.

I have been in those where they are not ‘permitted’, and where the justification is that there exists (and it is true, this document does exist) a document that states that people should not be ‘reading’ the epistles etc. but rather should be ‘listening’ instead. Of course this is not only specific to the ‘readings’ (as opposed to the Mass proper) it is also something that is not ‘mandated’ per se and in fact depending on circumstances (priest with thick accent, laity with hearing problems, etc.) would be counterproductive to the intended ‘focus on the word’ (kind of hard to focus when you can neither ‘see’ nor ‘hear’ what is being said!).

I have been in parishes where Father has been there for 10 years or so, no missal in that time, and the people honestly do not know that there have been ‘changes’ made that do not reflect the ‘black’ or the ‘red’ that is supposed to be there.

Especially if they seldom (or never) attend another parish. (I have known people who ‘prefer’ Father X’s ‘home-made’ Mass and are uncomfortable with the ‘normal’ Mass because “It just doesn’t seem as ‘real’ as Father’s, as meaningful as Father’s, as familiar as Father’s.”) The ‘orthodox’ now to them appears heterodox. . . unfamiliar, even unlikable.

This is a huge difficulty that faces the priests ‘coming in’ to deal with the aftermath (when Father ‘retires’) of finding the people complaining that “Why aren’t you saying the Mass ‘right’? Why are you saying “X”==Father always said “Y”. Why are you telling us we cannot do Z? Father always let us do Z.” etc.

One priest. . .one parish. Hundreds of souls now irrevocably confused and some even to the point of leaving the Church because “this new priest has ‘changed’ everything so it just doesn’t feel right anymore.”

One priest who (with the best of intentions no doubt) ‘changed’ the liturgy to be ‘better’ (in his eyes) and destroyed it for hundreds of people. . .and the legacy will continue as it ‘trickles’ down to the next generation who will have heard Mom, Grandpa, Great-Aunt Sue telling of how 'The Church changed all the good things and that’s why we aren’t Catholic any more."

It happens. I’ve seen it. It will keep on happening and while (praise God) most will ‘come around’, the tragedy is that for those who do not, who simply cannot accept the ‘reality’. . .it never should have happened.
 
Joannm said:
Unfortunatly, many parishes do not feel that such a person is really needed and will take the help of any volunteer who attended a few workshops.
Click to expand...
That’s very sad given the importance of the liturgy.

Ideally all liturgists would be clerics. But at least right now that’s probably not viable everywhere. If I couldn’t have a qualified cleric in that position, I would at least want someone with a degree or two in a cognizant area.

I don’t think for a moment anyone would go to a doctor whose medical education consisted or reading back issues of JAMA and attending a handful of conferences. Few would feel safe driving over a bridge engineered by someone who lacked the education and registration of a professional engineer.

The liturgy deserves at least as much respect as eternal life is often at stake.
 
Walking_Home said:
In todays Church that is no guarantee of orthodoxy in following the Church directives…
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Nope, but one can certainly increase the odds for success by placing good people with the best possible education/formation in critical positions.
 
japhy said:
Also, in suggesting or requesting liturgical changes (or “corrections”) to your priest, pastor, or liturgical committee (aimed at a more reverent and proper celebration of the Mass), don’t press for too many changes too quickly. Go slowly, cover one or two things at a time.

Don’t expect next week’s Mass to be ad orientem with chant and incense galore. You could reasonably expect there won’t be pouring of the Precious Blood and that the priest will wear the proper vestments (in the proper order), for example.

And spread out the changes so that the parish can get used to them. The 60’s were full of new changes piled upon earlier changes that had not really settled in yet.

Ok, perhaps I’ve gone into the “liturgical planner” end. Sorry; I’m not officially licensed to do this. 😉 Pray for this, though!

Please do me a favor: don’t get this or any other Liturgy & Sacraments thread locked or deleted!
Click to expand...
I think a great many “liturgical committees” would be disbanded.
 
Rickwood said:
That’s very sad given the importance of the liturgy.

Ideally all liturgists would be clerics. But at least right now that’s probably not viable everywhere. If I couldn’t have a qualified cleric in that position, I would at least want someone with a degree or two in a cognizant area.

I don’t think for a moment anyone would go to a doctor whose medical education consisted or reading back issues of JAMA and attending a handful of conferences. Few would feel safe driving over a bridge engineered by someone who lacked the education and registration of a professional engineer.

The liturgy deserves at least as much respect as eternal life is often at stake.
Click to expand...
The problem with this view is, there has also been a collapse of Catholic higher education. Check how many “Catholic” universities will even guarantee publically that they are teaching the Catholic faith. The numbers are astonishingly low.

And besides, does it really take a PhD to follow the GIRM? What in the world did poor village priests do for the past 1900 years?
 
Tantum_ergo said:
“Say the Black, Do the Red” is great. . .

for the parishes that have missals of some type.

I have been in those where they are not ‘permitted’, and where the justification is that there exists (and it is true, this document does exist) a document that states that people should not be ‘reading’ the epistles etc. but rather should be ‘listening’ instead. Of course this is not only specific to the ‘readings’ (as opposed to the Mass proper) it is also something that is not ‘mandated’ per se and in fact depending on circumstances (priest with thick accent, laity with hearing problems, etc.) would be counterproductive to the intended ‘focus on the word’ (kind of hard to focus when you can neither ‘see’ nor ‘hear’ what is being said!).

I have been in parishes where Father has been there for 10 years or so, no missal in that time, and the people honestly do not know that there have been ‘changes’ made that do not reflect the ‘black’ or the ‘red’ that is supposed to be there.

Especially if they seldom (or never) attend another parish. (I have known people who ‘prefer’ Father X’s ‘home-made’ Mass and are uncomfortable with the ‘normal’ Mass because “It just doesn’t seem as ‘real’ as Father’s, as meaningful as Father’s, as familiar as Father’s.”) The ‘orthodox’ now to them appears heterodox. . . unfamiliar, even unlikable.

This is a huge difficulty that faces the priests ‘coming in’ to deal with the aftermath (when Father ‘retires’) of finding the people complaining that “Why aren’t you saying the Mass ‘right’? Why are you saying “X”==Father always said “Y”. Why are you telling us we cannot do Z? Father always let us do Z.” etc.

One priest. . .one parish. Hundreds of souls now irrevocably confused and some even to the point of leaving the Church because “this new priest has ‘changed’ everything so it just doesn’t feel right anymore.”

One priest who (with the best of intentions no doubt) ‘changed’ the liturgy to be ‘better’ (in his eyes) and destroyed it for hundreds of people. . .and the legacy will continue as it ‘trickles’ down to the next generation who will have heard Mom, Grandpa, Great-Aunt Sue telling of how 'The Church changed all the good things and that’s why we aren’t Catholic any more."

It happens. I’ve seen it. It will keep on happening and while (praise God) most will ‘come around’, the tragedy is that for those who do not, who simply cannot accept the ‘reality’. . .it never should have happened.
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I really don’t believe there is a binding Church document that directs the faithful not to follow along in a missalette – even during the readings.
 
VociMike said:
The problem with this view is, there has also been a collapse of Catholic higher education. Check how many “Catholic” universities will even guarantee publically that they are teaching the Catholic faith. The numbers are astonishingly low.

And besides, does it really take a PhD to follow the GIRM? What in the world did poor village priests do for the past 1900 years?
Click to expand...
Oh, I don’t buy that garbage in the least. I run into groups at both of my parishes that chant the mantra “there are only five real Catholic universities left in the USA.” That’s ridiculous. In the same parishes we have wonderful, very well qualified layperson staffers who attended “non”-Catholic schools (according to the chanters) like CUA and Notre Dame.

Your comment “does it really take a PhD to follow the GIRM? What in the world did poor village priests do for the past 1900 years?” just made my point. The liturgy is not trivial, yet some feel the need to trivialize it.

The is far more to being a competent liturgist than memorizing the GIRM and RS.
 
Tantum_ergo said:
“Say the Black, Do the Red” is great. . .

for the parishes that have missals of some type.

I have been in those where they are not ‘permitted’, and where the justification is that there exists (and it is true, this document does exist) a document that states that people should not be ‘reading’ the epistles etc. but rather should be ‘listening’ instead. Of course this is not only specific to the ‘readings’ (as opposed to the Mass proper) it is also something that is not ‘mandated’ per se and in fact depending on circumstances (priest with thick accent, laity with hearing problems, etc.) would be counterproductive to the intended ‘focus on the word’ (kind of hard to focus when you can neither ‘see’ nor ‘hear’ what is being said!).

I have been in parishes where Father has been there for 10 years or so, no missal in that time, and the people honestly do not know that there have been ‘changes’ made that do not reflect the ‘black’ or the ‘red’ that is supposed to be there.

Especially if they seldom (or never) attend another parish. (I have known people who ‘prefer’ Father X’s ‘home-made’ Mass and are uncomfortable with the ‘normal’ Mass because “It just doesn’t seem as ‘real’ as Father’s, as meaningful as Father’s, as familiar as Father’s.”) The ‘orthodox’ now to them appears heterodox. . . unfamiliar, even unlikable.

This is a huge difficulty that faces the priests ‘coming in’ to deal with the aftermath (when Father ‘retires’) of finding the people complaining that “Why aren’t you saying the Mass ‘right’? Why are you saying “X”==Father always said “Y”. Why are you telling us we cannot do Z? Father always let us do Z.” etc.

One priest. . .one parish. Hundreds of souls now irrevocably confused and some even to the point of leaving the Church because “this new priest has ‘changed’ everything so it just doesn’t feel right anymore.”

One priest who (with the best of intentions no doubt) ‘changed’ the liturgy to be ‘better’ (in his eyes) and destroyed it for hundreds of people. . .and the legacy will continue as it ‘trickles’ down to the next generation who will have heard Mom, Grandpa, Great-Aunt Sue telling of how 'The Church changed all the good things and that’s why we aren’t Catholic any more."

It happens. I’ve seen it. It will keep on happening and while (praise God) most will ‘come around’, the tragedy is that for those who do not, who simply cannot accept the ‘reality’. . .it never should have happened.
Click to expand...
Makes me wonder what will happen to that type of parish when the new order of the Mass takes effect. Will the priest and laity receive the proper catechesis that will be required.
 
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