How can the God of christianity be All Powerful, if Satan is NOT His servant?

[Yetzirah]

How can the God of christianity be omnipotent and not be be the one that controls Satan?

It would seem to me, that if God is all powerful, the demons and Satan is but the servants of God, obeying his commandments?

Otherwise, how can God be called All Powerful?

 

[seagal]

Satan doesn’t serve God, he has put himself in direct opposition to God. But he is God’s creature so in one sense you’re correct, he is under God’s dominion. However God doesn’t control Satan but he allows him free will, the same as all his creatures. Satan and his minions were once angels (God’s messengers) but turned against God and were cast out of heaven. But they still have all the powers they were created with so they are very strong. But Satan can do nothing on his own, he has no power over us except what we freely give him. And God allows us the freedom to do so if we choose.

 

[Dorothy]

Another point to make is that Satan is on a leash. the evil one and his cohorts can only tempt in what God allows…and Jesus Christ is the Remedy!!! His grace is always available to us to resist temptation. We have free will, as was mentioned before.

 

[Steveabrous]

(Sigh) he give everyone free will, and this smells like a troll

 

[Yetzirah]

The whole universe and all of creation exists within God, but God is beyond the Universe and all of creation correct?

Or do Hell and Satan exist outside of God?? Is there a part of creation that is not under the dominion of the christian God?

I guess I’m a monist myself and Iäve always wondered about this beause I think it’s contradicting the attribute of Omnipotence and omniscience to have a Hell and a Devil that exists outside of God

 

[Gorgias]

The whole universe and all of creation exists within God, but God is beyond the Universe and all of creation correct?

Right; God is Creator, not created.

Or do Hell and Satan exist outside of God?? Is there a part of creation that is not under the dominion of the christian God?

Hell and Satan exist ‘outside’ of God inasmuch as they are created realities. By that standard, we exist ‘outside’ God. On the other hand, none of creation – God’s creation, mind you! – is outside God’s dominion. All of creation depends on God for its continued existence.

I think it’s contradicting the attribute of Omnipotence and omniscience to have a Hell and a Devil that exists outside of God

Hell and the Devil are ‘outside’ God only in that first sense – that they are not God Himself – but not in that second sense (that they are outside His dominion). You’re right: if they were outside His dominion, omnipotence wouldn’t make sense. But, they’re not. Christian eschatology asserts that, at the end of time, God will assert His omnipotence over Satan. That doesn’t mean that at that time, God will newly create His omnipotence, but only that he will assert the omnipotence that He’s always had.

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

God doesn’t want robots without will, thought, etc. God created the Angels and gave them
ONE choice, because God wants them and us to CHOOSE. Satan and the Demons kind-
a chose bad, yeah, so they’re gone from God’s Grace forever. Where in this is God’s Sup-
remacy questioned?

 

[Sultan_Of_Swing]

How can the God of christianity be omnipotent and not be be the one that controls Satan?

It would seem to me, that if God is all powerful, the demons and Satan is but the servants of God, obeying his commandments?

Otherwise, how can God be called All Powerful?

God gave us free will. He doesn’t control us, He seeks relationship.

 

[seagal]

The whole universe and all of creation exists within God, but God is beyond the Universe and all of creation correct?

I’m not familiar with this concept of creation. It seems to me that if something is created it necessarily exists outside of the creator. In that sense, “the whole universe and all of creation” would be outside of God, or as you stated it, God is beyond his creation.

Or do Hell and Satan exist outside of God?? Is there a part of creation that is not under the dominion of the christian God?

I guess I’m a monist myself and Iäve always wondered about this beause I think it’s contradicting the attribute of Omnipotence and omniscience to have a Hell and a Devil that exists outside of God

Everything exists outside of God. Since he created everything, everything is under his dominion. He created the devil, originally as an angel, therefore the devil is outside of God also.

 

[Yetzirah]

Right; God is Creator, not created.
Hell and the Devil are ‘outside’ God only in that first sense – that they are not God Himself – but not in that second sense (that they are outside His dominion). You’re right: if they were outside His dominion, omnipotence wouldn’t make sense. But, they’re not. Christian eschatology asserts that, at the end of time, God will assert His omnipotence over Satan. That doesn’t mean that at that time, God will newly create His omnipotence, but only that he will assert the omnipotence that He’s always had.

This answer my question very nicely…

Everything in our reality seems to exist in polarity: male/female, positive/negative, plus/minus, warm/cold - But is the one separate from the other? For example warm is only one extreme on the same scale where cold would be the other extreme. They’re the same attribute if you know what I mean. This is seems to be the case with all polarities and thus it could be that what we humans may percieve as evil or destruction might only be one extreme of the what on the other extreme is good.

 

[oldcelt]

God gave us free will. He doesn’t control us, He seeks relationship.

And man you’d better give it or else. Can you imagine this in humanity…Be my friend or I’ll torture you eternally.

That is not seeking relationship, that is coercion.

 

[davidv]

And man you’d better give it or else. Can you imagine this in humanity…Be my friend or I’ll torture you eternally.

That is not seeking relationship, that is coercion.

Strawman. God does not torture the damned. They torture themselves with their obvious lack of love…

 

[Gorgias]

This answer my question very nicely…

Thanks!

Everything in our reality seems to exist in polarity: male/female, positive/negative, plus/minus, warm/cold - But is the one separate from the other? For example warm is only one extreme on the same scale where cold would be the other extreme. They’re the same attribute if you know what I mean. This is seems to be the case with all polarities and thus it could be that what we humans may percieve as evil or destruction might only be one extreme of the what on the other extreme is good.

Certainly, evil is the privation of good, just as dark is the privation of light. However, this analogy works for things that are in the created order: dark and light are created, as are heat and cold, etc, etc. But, ‘goodness’ is an attribute of God; it is uncreated (although things in the created order also share in goodness). So, if we try to posit that God and Satan are opposites, we’re making a logical error: God is creator, and nothing is his ‘opposite’, per se. In the created order, there is good, and its privation is evil. In the uncreated order, there is only God, and there is nothing at his ‘level’ of existence that is His opposite.

The devil, then, is identified with evil – or, more properly speaking, with the rejection of good – but he isn’t on a par with God.

 

[oldcelt]

Strawman. God does not torture the damned. They torture themselves with their obvious lack of love…

Lack of love for whom?

Also, this self-condemnation idea is new since my early days in the Church. God judged, God condemned…period. I have to think that this new idea may have developed to get around showing the Christian God’s real plan. Only the insane torture themselves.

 

[Amandil]

Lack of love for whom?

Also, this self-condemnation idea is new since my early days in the Church. God judged, God condemned…period. I have to think that this new idea may have developed to get around showing the Christian God’s real plan. Only the insane torture themselves.

Sin is insane. Sin is the rejection of Reality in favor of unreality. Thus, we are all spiritual lunatics, since we all choose to sin(i.e. choose unreality).

Hell is the inevitable result of the choice of unreality into eternity. Through sin you completely lose your human individuality; you identify yourself with the sin you love more than the Reality which created you.

Sin will inevitably receive its ultimate judgment by God, and those who refuse to repent, who choose not to be parted from the sin that they love, will join sin in that judgment.

 

[mikekle]

Satan doesn’t serve God, he has put himself in direct opposition to God. But he is God’s creature so in one sense you’re correct, he is under God’s dominion. However God doesn’t control Satan but he allows him free will, the same as all his creatures. Satan and his minions were once angels (God’s messengers) but turned against God and were cast out of heaven. But they still have all the powers they were created with so they are very strong. But Satan can do nothing on his own, he has no power over us except what we freely give him. And God allows us the freedom to do so if we choose.

I am still bothered by this topic, even though its been discussed before on here, to me, it just makes ZERO logical sense that Satan rebelled against God, and managed to convince 1/3 of the angels he was correct, and basically all that God did to them is kick them out of Heaven, (But he also created Hell for them at the same time), Is this not the same thing as kicking someone out of your house for something, but then go and build them a new house of their own?

I dont understand why God did not just turn Satan and his followers to dust immediately for what they had done…This was no little offense, this was Satan wanting Gods job and power…so, it was a pretty big crime, and yet they still have ALL their powers, basically have immortal lives, have a place of their own, and the worst IMO, the ability to come and go from Hell to influence mankind whenever they wish…so where is their punishment again? LOL

However, if God had destroyed Satan and the fallen angels right when this happened, there would basically be no other choice for mankind, in other words, no evil influence on anyone, I cant imagine that world, but it would probably be close to heaven.Without Satan, people would really not have free will, or the only choice in a world without an evil influence would be God, because there literally be NO evil.

So, in a way, it does seem Satan is needed. I think this is just something we are not meant to know or understand though, because if you look at the facts set forth in the bible and how God deals with sinners, what was done in Satans case does not make sense.

I would be very curious about what the world was like before Satans fall.

 

[Dorothy]

In your next to the last paragraph you say something “not making sense.”

It may not make sense to us, as we have finite minds.

God, who is infinitely perfect knows what He is doing, and it comes from His Infinite Love.

 

[oldcelt]

Sin is insane. Sin is the rejection of Reality in favor of unreality. Thus, we are all spiritual lunatics, since we all choose to sin(i.e. choose unreality).

Hell is the inevitable result of the choice of unreality into eternity. Through sin you completely lose your human individuality; you identify yourself with the sin you love more than the Reality which created you.

Sin will inevitably receive its ultimate judgment by God, and those who refuse to repent, who choose not to be parted from the sin that they love, will join sin in that judgment.

Well, I see so little there that we can discuss…that I won’t.

 

[GangGreen]

Doesn’t the book of Job show the fact that Satan cannot do anything without God permitting it?

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

Doesn’t the book of Job show the fact that Satan cannot do anything without God permitting it?

Right, because God is in control, but that doesn’t mean what Satan does is God’s will.