How can the God of christianity be All Powerful, if Satan is NOT His servant?

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Right, because God is in control, but that doesn’t mean what Satan does is God’s will.
Well that’s because Satan has free will like all of us.
What one has to also understand is that in hell there is no happiness. Satan may have his “house” but it doesn’t mean he is happy there. Joy and peace only come from God.
 
I am still bothered by this topic, even though its been discussed before on here, to me, it just makes ZERO logical sense that Satan rebelled against God, and managed to convince 1/3 of the angels he was correct, and basically all that God did to them is kick them out of Heaven, (But he also created Hell for them at the same time), Is this not the same thing as kicking someone out of your house for something, but then go and build them a new house of their own?
God created his angels with the same free will as man, and when Satan exercised his free will and turned against God, God sent him away. The exact same thing happens to us at the final judgement. If we have turned against God, God sends us away to be with Satan. If it’s punishment for us, how much more so for him, who used to live with God.

As far as what you said about building a special place for the fallen angels, what else could He do? God is everywhere so how could he send the angels away from his presence unless he created a special “place” where he wasn’t?
 
I remember asking my old pastor about the devil, saying “What the hell did God create him (the devil) for?” He thought about it for a minute, then just shrugged, and replied, “Oh, he’s got a job to do I suppose.” And it seemed to me that what he was saying was correct.

So in that sense Satan does serve God. To my way of thinking he’s a catalyst, in that he forces us to make moral choices more often by constantly bringing temptations to mind.

I also agree with Calvin in that the devil is in some way the “minister of God’s wrath.” I can’t imagine God enjoying torturing souls for eternity in hell, so He lets the devil do it, and he enjoys it.
 
I remember asking my old pastor about the devil, saying “What the hell did God create him (the devil) for?” He thought about it for a minute, then just shrugged, and replied, “Oh, he’s got a job to do I suppose.” And it seemed to me that what he was saying was correct.

So in that sense Satan does serve God. To my way of thinking he’s a catalyst, in that he forces us to make moral choices more often by constantly bringing temptations to mind.

I also agree with Calvin in that the devil is in some way the “minister of God’s wrath.” I can’t imagine God enjoying torturing souls for eternity in hell, so He lets the devil do it, and he enjoys it.
I don’t think God will allow the devil to be enjoying anything for eternity.
 
And man you’d better give it or else. Can you imagine this in humanity…Be my friend or I’ll torture you eternally.

That is not seeking relationship, that is coercion.
You raise an interesting point, however the reality is not really like that.

It’s more like this, if you love me you will be united with me perfectly for all eternity. If you reject me, you will be separated from me for eternity.

That sounds fair to me, and a perfect manifestation of free will no less. Should God force those who reject Him to be united with Him? What sort of free will is that?
 
I don’t think God will allow the devil to be enjoying anything for eternity.
No doubt. After all the devil’s ultimate fate is the lake of fire, at which point his only concern will be his own pain.

However I think my point is still valid regarding the souls in Hell. Even Christ stated in his parable about the unforgiving servant -
“Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I cancelled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.
“This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.”
Since the parable implies punishment or “torture”, who’s going to be doing the punishing or torturing?
 
Well that’s because Satan has free will like all of us.
What one has to also understand is that in hell there is no happiness. Satan may have his “house” but it doesn’t mean he is happy there. Joy and peace only come from God.
I don’t know if he has free will, at least not in the same way as us.
Someone correct me please?
 
I don’t know if he has free will, at least not in the same way as us.
Someone correct me please?
I don’t know if this will help anyone in further understanding, and I believe you already know this, but this is how I see the difference between Satan’s free will, and ours: (Thank you St. Thomas Acquinas, for whatever I may say that is on target.)

Satan and his cohorts have a far greater intelligence than we have. When God gave them the test they were able to see at a glance what the outcome of their choice would be…and Satan said “Non Serviam” and his cohorts followed him.

Our free will is different and our intellects are lesser resulting in understanding less… and when we do not obey God from the outset, we fall, we can repent and get up, we fall, we can repent and get up, pray, receive His grace, etc.

Please correct any outlandish mistakes! …
 
How can the God of Christianity not be all powerful if Satan is miserable in hell?

No wonder hell is so heavily populated. Misery loves company. 😉
 
How can the God of Christianity not be all powerful if Satan is miserable in hell?

No wonder hell is so heavily populated. Misery loves company. 😉
Yes, but Satan is not miserable in hell, he can come and go at will, just as his demons can do. doesnt seem like suffering to me.
 
I don’t know if this will help anyone in further understanding, and I believe you already know this, but this is how I see the difference between Satan’s free will, and ours: (Thank you St. Thomas Acquinas, for whatever I may say that is on target.)

Satan and his cohorts have a far greater intelligence than we have. When God gave them the test they were able to see at a glance what the outcome of their choice would be…and Satan said “Non Serviam” and his cohorts followed him.

Our free will is different and our intellects are lesser resulting in understanding less… and when we do not obey God from the outset, we fall, we can repent and get up, we fall, we can repent and get up, pray, receive His grace, etc.

Please correct any outlandish mistakes! …
Yes, but humans only have this ability while they are alive (supposedly), once they die, it is all over, Satan CANNOT die, he was influencing adam and eve in the garden 1000s of years ago, and hes doing the exact same thing to people today.
 
Yes, but Satan is not miserable in hell, he can come and go at will, just as his demons can do. doesnt seem like suffering to me.
How do you know Satan is not miserable? I think he must be the most miserable creature in existence, having to live with his own putrid, loathsome, repugnance. Anywhere he goes he’s in hell.
 
How can the God of christianity be omnipotent and not be be the one that controls Satan?

It would seem to me, that if God is all powerful, the demons and Satan is but the servants of God, obeying his commandments?

Otherwise, how can God be called All Powerful?
All creatures, all of creation is subject to Divine Providence. God is the ruler of His creation.
“Indeed, she (Wisdom) spans the world from end to end mightily and governs all things well.” (Wisdom 8:1).
Further, God’s will united with His intellect is the cause of things. He is the First Cause of all that exists. Creatures are secondary causes as the CCC#308 says and secondary causes can only operate in virtue of the First Cause. And St Augustine says: “Nothing is done, unless the Almighty wills it to be done, either by permitting it or by actually doing it.”

Richca
 
I remember asking my old pastor about the devil, saying “What the hell did God create him (the devil) for?” He thought about it for a minute, then just shrugged, and replied, “Oh, he’s got a job to do I suppose.” And it seemed to me that what he was saying was correct.

So in that sense Satan does serve God. To my way of thinking he’s a catalyst, in that he forces us to make moral choices more often by constantly bringing temptations to mind.
To Satan, Satan serves no one but himself. Satan’s purpose is not merely the disinterested pursuit of what we call “evil”, he wants more than that. He wants to be god in place of God. Except Satan’s desire is not God’s desire and his way of “love” is not God’s way of love.

Whereas love in reality as God made it results in our perfect freedom and individuality, Satan’s “love” is rather seen as “hunger”(look at those examples of people who are consumed with lust and how they almost literally desire to consume others). And his ultimate goal is to enslave and feast on a world where he has absorbed all of the human race, all of creation, and all of the universe is absorbed into him and can only do anything in and through him.
I also agree with Calvin in that the devil is in some way the “minister of God’s wrath.” I can’t imagine God enjoying torturing souls for eternity in hell, so He lets the devil do it, and he enjoys it.
I don’t agree at all. The only way that Satan, or any of the devils, are servants of God is that in whatever evil that they contrive to commit only results in the ultimate goodness that God brings from it and in that only adds to God’s glory.

“God’s wrath” is not the evil that the devil commits but rather the love that God’s bestows on all, even those who choose sinfulness over God. Sin naturally is its own punishment, God doesn’t need to compound His “wrath” onto sin, it already exists in the sin itself. Sin is un-reality; empty, void of meaning and of life.

Picture a parent and a child in a store. The child wants a toy and the parent refuses to allow them to get it for whatever reason. This results in the child beginning to rebel against the parent’s decision, even to the point of it becoming a temper tantrum in the store: screaming and crying and rolling on the floor.

The parent won’t budge in the decision about the toy(he/she doesn’t need it), but has pity on the child in their tantrum. So when the parent tries to pick the child up in love, the child reacts even more emotionally and maybe even more violently.

The love of the parent, for the child, is the most “intolerable wrath” for that child who isn’t getting their way.

Expand that small example to a soul who has utterly enslaved themselves to their favorite sin, who are in effect the sin that they love so much to the effect that their is no difference between them. And you have a God who tells them that they cannot have that sin and at the same time be with Him.

A God who says, “you cannot have that sin”, and yet when He tries to love that person, that person insists upon it, even violently.

God’s “wrath” is simply to let that person have it their way.
 
God’s “wrath” is simply to let that person have it their way.
It’s more than just letting them “have it their way”. If someone “has it their way” in human society and just does what they want to the detriment of others, eg. murder, rape, etc, then they are punished - jail, execution (depending on the society).

There’s an element of punishment to this as well, apart from just “having their way” or being “separated from God.”

I witnessed my father’s scream the night he died as I stated in one of my earlier posts, and it was as clear as the sun in the sky that something was coming for him, which terrified him to the core, and it wasn’t just a matter of being “separated from God”.

There was a point preceding that when he looked completely dejected and rejected, and that I think was when he realised he was eternally “separated from God”.

“Get away from me, for I never knew you!”

But very shortly after that came his second, terrifying revelation, when the opposition made its presence clear.

And there was no longer anything he could do about it.

It’s more than just being “separated from God”. The devil’s got a job to do, loathsome as it is.
 
It’s more than just letting them “have it their way”. If someone “has it their way” in human society and just does what they want to the detriment of others, eg. murder, rape, etc, then they are punished - jail, execution (depending on the society).

There’s an element of punishment to this as well, apart from just “having their way” or being “separated from God.”

I witnessed my father’s scream the night he died as I stated in one of my earlier posts, and it was as clear as the sun in the sky that something was coming for him, which terrified him to the core, and it wasn’t just a matter of being “separated from God”.

There was a point preceding that when he looked completely dejected and rejected, and that I think was when he realised he was eternally “separated from God”.

“Get away from me, for I never knew you!”

But very shortly after that came his second, terrifying revelation, when the opposition made its presence clear.

And there was no longer anything he could do about it.

It’s more than just being “separated from God”. The devil’s got a job to do, loathsome as it is.
But his “job” isn’t willed directly by God, which is what it seems you are suggesting.
 
But his “job” isn’t willed directly by God, which is what it seems you are suggesting.
That’s not the impression I get after reading the book of Job. It seems to me to be implicit in the story that God’s purpose was to allow Satan to test Job.

God brought Job to Satan’s attention, almost as though He was setting up Job for a test.
And the Lord said to Satan, Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who [reverently] fears God and abstains from and shuns evil [because it is wrong]?
9 Then Satan answered the Lord, Does Job [reverently] fear God for nothing?
10 Have You not put a hedge about him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have conferred prosperity and happiness upon him in the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land.
11 But put forth Your hand now and touch all that he has, and he will curse You to Your face.
12 And the Lord said to Satan (the adversary and the accuser), Behold, all that he has is in your power, only upon the man himself put not forth your hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.
I think Satan’s got a job to do, unlovely as it is, and I think it was part of God’s plan in the first place. If it wasn’t, he wouldn’t exist, or at least he would not have the power that he does. Nor do I find it coincidental that out of the entire universe at the time of creation, the one place Satan seemed to be hanging around was the planet earth.
 
That’s not the impression I get after reading the book of Job. It seems to me to be implicit in the story that God’s purpose was to allow Satan to test Job.

God brought Job to Satan’s attention, almost as though He was setting up Job for a test.
Yeah, I’m going to pour over some things regarding those passages from Job. I think that there is a distinction that may be missing from such an interpretation.
I think Satan’s got a job to do, unlovely as it is, and I think it was part of God’s plan in the first place. If it wasn’t, he wouldn’t exist, or at least he would not have the power that he does.
I’m not disputing that point.
Nor do I find it coincidental that out of the entire universe at the time of creation, the one place Satan seemed to be hanging around was the planet earth.
Well, the idea that there is some direct “collusion” between God and Satan in regards to the evil committed by Satan I don’t think is accurate. Not that the text is wrong, but that there is some sense or distinction that we may be missing.
 
I’ll put it this way - if Satan hasn’t got a job to do, then God just created him for no reason.

And that doesn’t stand to reason, if you’ll pardon the pun.
 
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