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someone429
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Catholicism teaches that the main pain of hell is the separation from God. But it seems that the fire in hell is much more painful than the separation. So, how can the main pain of hell be the separation from God?
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Maximilian75
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my pastor said that hell can be likened to being trapped in an elevator for all eyernity, the pain isint from actually being in the elevator, but rather being separated from al you know and love for all eternity.
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Vico
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Punishment rather than pain: “The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God” – Catechism
This declaration of punishment can be an objective statement. Is the person in hell aware of a lack of Beatific Vision? Is a person that has never tasted a food, know what is missed?
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someone429
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But isn’t the pain of fire much more severe than the pain of separation?
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someone429
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So, do you mean that the separation from God is a punishment which is objectively more severe than the fire, but not necessarily more painful?
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AmbroseSJ
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While that explanation is theologically sound, it is not really satisfying. I have heard that explanation so often and my mental response has always been: so more of the same… 
IOW, people are entirely OK with being separated from God. Many people don’t even like God!
But you will never find Jesus or the Apostles describing Hell that way. They always compare it to fire, being the most painful punishment conceivable. Even in the the parable of Lazarus and the rich man, he is in fire and torments, and wishes for just the slightest relief.
While the basis for Hell’s torment is the separation from God, the result is far more terrifying. For example, that might be like saying that the most painful lingering cancer is really just the separation from health.
IOW, people are entirely OK with being separated from God. Many people don’t even like God!But you will never find Jesus or the Apostles describing Hell that way. They always compare it to fire, being the most painful punishment conceivable. Even in the the parable of Lazarus and the rich man, he is in fire and torments, and wishes for just the slightest relief.
While the basis for Hell’s torment is the separation from God, the result is far more terrifying. For example, that might be like saying that the most painful lingering cancer is really just the separation from health.
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sonofbarry
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If you willfully chose separation from God while alive on earth, you wouldn’t care about such separation in the afterlife.
The sanitized teaching of the church is that God doesn’t send you to hell; rather, you choose hell yourself through your unwillingness to repent your sins. It’s “separation from God” rather than actual pain.
If you were an incorrigible sinner, why would you care?
The sanitized teaching of the church is that God doesn’t send you to hell; rather, you choose hell yourself through your unwillingness to repent your sins. It’s “separation from God” rather than actual pain.
If you were an incorrigible sinner, why would you care?
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Eric_Hyom
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Possibly because people choose to believe there is no God, and they don’t need a god to lead a comfortable life.
Hell will be the time they know for sure that God exists, and they reject his love. Hell will feel like burning coals are being heaped on your head, there will be no earthly comforts for the rich man.
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joeybaggz
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Just curious … anyone think that the use of the idea of fire is actually allegorical. After all, burn is the most painful sensation a human being can endure. The idea of a never ending burn might be the best human explanation for the pain of separation from Godl
I am open to the possibility that at death, all ascend to heaven where one will experience the wonder and joy of life with God. And then at judgment, all who have willingly chosen separation from God on earth, will be consigned to that place where God is not. And that realization will be more painful than any experience man has endured/encountered on earth. Just a thought.
Not ignoring that Jesus Himself used the mental picture of everlasting fire as punishment and torment for willingly living in a state that one separates oneself from God, but might Jesus been using an allegory. He had done that before.
Just wondering …
I am open to the possibility that at death, all ascend to heaven where one will experience the wonder and joy of life with God. And then at judgment, all who have willingly chosen separation from God on earth, will be consigned to that place where God is not. And that realization will be more painful than any experience man has endured/encountered on earth. Just a thought.
Not ignoring that Jesus Himself used the mental picture of everlasting fire as punishment and torment for willingly living in a state that one separates oneself from God, but might Jesus been using an allegory. He had done that before.
Just wondering …
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SonofJoseph
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This is exactly what I was thinking about it while reading through this thread! Hell may not be a literal fire, just an example to understand the pain one feels eternally separated from the source of Love. Perhaps too, after death, all of this is known to the soul in a more profound way than on Earth. Thus, the pain would be incomparable to anything on Earth. In my own experience, I’ve found that spiritual desolation, etc. is more painful than any physical or mental pain I’ve ever had to endure. I cannot imagine it being there for eternity. Certainly, the symbolism of “fire” to exemplify the degree of torment involved is fitting.
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Arkansan
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In this present life, our physical faculties can rebel against our reason and will, and even impede their operation in some cases. But after the Resurrection, the body will be dominated by the soul, and the soul will not be dependent on the body for its operation. Consequently, in that state the pains of the soul will exceed pains of the body in magnitude.
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ChunkMonk
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The fire will be a physical pain. The separation will be a spiritual and mental pain.
Imagine being constantly afriad, being constantly angry, being entirely consumed with jealousy, hatred, and anguish. Imagine having lost everything and knowing that it will never end. This will last forever. There will be no love, no joy, no contrition. All goodness in you is gone. It will be impossible to ever have even the slightest instant of any good intention or feeling. More than anything, there will be no hope. Only darkness.
If you could feel the spiritual torture of Hell for even one instant, you would willingly burn a thousand times to avoid even one more instant of it.
Imagine being constantly afriad, being constantly angry, being entirely consumed with jealousy, hatred, and anguish. Imagine having lost everything and knowing that it will never end. This will last forever. There will be no love, no joy, no contrition. All goodness in you is gone. It will be impossible to ever have even the slightest instant of any good intention or feeling. More than anything, there will be no hope. Only darkness.
If you could feel the spiritual torture of Hell for even one instant, you would willingly burn a thousand times to avoid even one more instant of it.
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Arkansan
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The really terrifying thing is that the same is true of Purgatory.
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exnihilo
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The punishment could be the fire. The separation could be experienced as fire. It isn’t necessarily that the punishment of separation is distinct from the fire.
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ChunkMonk
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After the Final Judgement, we will all have resurected bodies. The damned will be in Hell, body and soul.
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Arkansan
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ahs
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What makes you think they are separate? We don’t concretely know what “fire” there is in hell, only that it is described as an unquenchable “fire”. Keep in mind that our bodies and souls were created to be in union with God. To be eternally separated from Him, by our own choice at that, would be an eternal torment on its own, at least for our soul.
All people, whether in Heaven or in Hell, will be re-united with their physical bodies. That is our nature…to be a body+a soul/spirit. So, they will have bodies at some point, and it will be eternal.
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ahs
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Is a nervous system required to “feel”, or is it just a material tool that we can use in our bodies to get a sense of what the soul already knows? Is a brain necessary for thought and reflection, or is it just a material tool for our bodies to obtain some sense of what the soul already knows? #thingsthatmakeyougohmmmmm
Check out “Theology for Beginners” by Frank Sheed. He goes into great depths on this very topic.
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Arkansan
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Question, do you accept the immateriality of the intellect?
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Arkansan
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Computers do not comprehend, so they are not analogous to human beings (or even dogs for that matter).
The proof for the immateriality of the intellect comes from the immaterial objects that our intellects can consider. E.g. the meaning if the word “prime” bears no relation to that word, nor to any other material representation that we could make, yet we can understand it. Contrast this with animals, which can only understand particular material things that they can mentally represent the likeness of.
The proof for the immateriality of the intellect comes from the immaterial objects that our intellects can consider. E.g. the meaning if the word “prime” bears no relation to that word, nor to any other material representation that we could make, yet we can understand it. Contrast this with animals, which can only understand particular material things that they can mentally represent the likeness of.
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