How can the main pain of hell be the separation from God?

[ahs]

It’s not “my” opinion, or “your” opinion that’s the measure… it’s the society that we are a part of that self-generates and ever evolves their concept of “good”.

Which really still doesn’t mean anything. What you are effectively saying is that, as long as I lived in Nazi Germany, then the Holocaust was fine because it was generally accepted by that society. If I lived in the US South during slavery times, then slavery was fine, because it was accepted by society as “good”.
What is “good” can change from one period to the next, depending on the whim of society. I disagree with that.

Slavery is slavery: ownership of another human being for the purpose of labor.

I think someone has done you a great disservice if you think slavery condoned in the Bible was anything akin to slavery in the US South. Not that there was not such slavery in Biblical times, but that type of slavery was condemned by God, not condoned by Him.

My standard is the standard from the society where I was raised. Late 20th century Europe.

Okay. But according to what you said earlier, that standard is not objective, and can change as society changes. What is “good” today may be “bad” next century, and vice versa. So, it still is really meaningless.

Society’s standard is an approximate objective standard… whoever fails to meet the standard is judged by that society and possibly punished for the undesired behavior.

Yet, no one can really say for sure if that person was REALLY “good” or “bad”…only that they didn’t meet this never-stable “approximate” standard, which is subject to change with the times…making it meaningless, and not objective in any sense whatever.

I understand what you say, but I still don’t see how you can say that it would be torment to be separated from god in the afterlife, if such a torment is far from felt during this life by those who do not abide by his rules.

Because our ultimate destination is not dependent upon feelings in this earthly life. Whether we feel something here and now does not impact what we were made for. Whether we feel God, or a longing for Him doesn’t have any impact whatever on whether He exists, created us, etc. God can be known apart from feelings. Though, what we do NOT feel now may possibly keep us from being separated from our eternal purpose (i.e. invincible ignorance, etc.).

I’ll leave this conversation here, because there is nothing more I can add to it. Ultimately though, and to bring it back around to topic, In the Catholic view, the Christian theological view, God is the ultimate good, for which we were created. To be in an eternal separation from Him, Who is the supreme Goodness/Love/Justice/Mercy…and for Whom we were created, would be eternal torment. And that’s why the Church teaches what it teaches about the primary pains of hell.

 

[pocaracas]

If you’re leaving, then I’ll just leave a reply for the sake of it…

pocaracas:

It’s not “my” opinion, or “your” opinion that’s the measure… it’s the society that we are a part of that self-generates and ever evolves their concept of “good”.

Which really still doesn’t mean anything. What you are effectively saying is that, as long as I lived in Nazi Germany, then the Holocaust was fine because it was generally accepted by that society. If I lived in the US South during slavery times, then slavery was fine, because it was accepted by society as “good”.
What is “good” can change from one period to the next, depending on the whim of society. I disagree with that.

You are free to disagree with it, but that doesn’t change the fact that it is how things are on this planet, with humanity.

pocaracas:

Slavery is slavery: ownership of another human being for the purpose of labor.

I think someone has done you a great disservice if you think slavery condoned in the Bible was anything akin to slavery in the US South. Not that there was not such slavery in Biblical times, but that type of slavery was condemned by God, not condoned by Him.

I think you’re not reading things properly…

pocaracas:

My standard is the standard from the society where I was raised. Late 20th century Europe.

Okay. But according to what you said earlier, that standard is not objective, and can change as society changes. What is “good” today may be “bad” next century, and vice versa. So, it still is really meaningless.

No, it’s meaningful to the people living in their present society. It’s about the people.

Because our ultimate destination is not dependent upon feelings in this earthly life.

Then, if it wasn’t for the people 2 or 3 thousand years ago… people who couldn’t even write a lousy historical document… if it wasn’t for them, I’d have no way of knowing that such a god existed… that such ultimate destination existed…
How do people who are ignorant that such a god exists supposed to come to be with him in the afterlife? How are people unconvinced that he exists supposed become convinced, if he provides nothing, not even the feels? How is he distinguishable from non-existent to us humans?