How can the Vatican say that Muslims worship the same God as we do?

[itsjustdave1988]

That is however, a false story…

Not according to Islamic sources.

According to Iranian scholar Ali Dashti:

Abu’ Afak, a man of great age (reputedly 120 years), was killed because he had lampooned Mohammad. The deed was done by Salem b. Omayr at the behest of the Prophet, who had asked, “Who will deal with this rascal for me?” The killing of such an old man moved a poetess, Asma b. Marwan, to compose disrespectful verses about the Prophet, and she too was assassinated. (Twenty Three Years - A Study of the Prophetic Career of Mohammad by Iranian scholar Ali Dashti, pg. 76-77)

The account is also attested to by Sirat Rasul Allah by Ibn Ishaq and Kitab Al Tabaqat Al Kabir, by Ibn Sa’d. That some Islamic apologists question the veracity of these sources sounds more like spin-control to me.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

Ever hear of Jonah? He was responsible for converting a very large city. But he sat on a hillside, angry at God for not destroying the city. We don’t read whether he repented of these murderous thoughts.

He was angry. Is that the same as having a 120-yr old Jewish man killed because of his satirical comments? I wish that “anger” was the worst of the sins of Muhammed. Nonetheless, any sins commited by Jonah such as “anger” or any sins of the prophets of God are to be admonished. Does Islam do the same with regard to the sins of Muhammed? Or do they instead mimic their prophet by killing people over satirical comments? I think history proves the latter, following the lead of their so-called “prophet.”

Regardless, the characterization above that Muhammed was a man of “charity” is what I was responding too. The Islamic sources which describe his biography show us that he was far from a man of charity.

 

[Valke2]

Jonah’s anger resulted in him wishing harm to himself, not engaging in harm to others.

 

[MariaG]

Allah was/is the Babylonian Moon God. In the original Koran, he was not the one and only God anyway, he had companions hence the combination in the flags of many Muslim countries of the Moon and Star! Inside the black stone that Muslims walk round (like the pagans that preceded them) is carved the old pagan moon god symbols. Shaving the head and growing the beard is a pagan custom. The list goes on…
Most importantly, Allah is “the chief of deceivers”. In other words, the Father of Lies or Satan himself.

Respectfully Jack, this sounds much like a Jack Chick track, some of which make similar, but false, accusations against Catholicism.

Could you please provide references for these claims?

 

[Godi]

Muhammad, began the religion of Islam as an effort to justify his actions of rape, murder & stealing. Actually his favorite wife Aisha was married to the prophet when she was 6 years old and the marriage was consummated when she was 9 years old. The Book; Satanic Verses, by Rushdie points to when the prophet made a deal with a pagan temple in Mecca, he would worship their pagan gods for a year & in return they would practice Islam. This is a very deceptive cult, the God of Islam is very vaguely comparable to the God we as Catholics know. They believe in one God but it ends there. They borrowed their beliefs from the Nestorian Church & from the Zoroaster belief in Persia. Robert Spencer has some very good & well researched books on Islam out, one of which is titled, The Truth about Muhammad.

 

[Publisher]

Even Nestorian beliefs were similar to “orthodox” teaching…the Jews coming out of Exile adopted much Zorastrian belief…Satan is a by product of the Exile.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

Greetings and peace be with you all

So if the Muslims don’t worship the same God as we do; which God hears the prayers when the Muslim pray?

In the spirit of praying to one God

Eric

 

[jonfan]

Actually, Fr. Bruce, the Pastor at our church, told me recently that Islam is considered by some to be a heresy of Catholicism. There’s a relationship between the religions, although I daresay we would want to stay far away from those who have more recently perverted Islam to suit their own ends.

Melanie

Well actually Islam hasn’t been ‘recently’
perverted. If you study the history of Islam you will see how Arabs were not warring constantly until the 7th century. They lived in their own world and didn’t go out of their way to harm others.

 

[MariaG]

A temple of the Moon-god has been excavated in Ur by Sir Leonard Woolley. He dug up many examples of moon worship in Ur and these are displayed in the British Museum to this day. Harran was likewise noted for its devotion to the Moon-god. In the 1950’s a major temple to the Moon-god was excavated at Hazer in Palestine. Two idols of the moon god were found. Each was a stature of a man sitting upon a throne with a crescent moon carved on his chest . The accompanying inscriptions make it clear that these were idols of the Moon-god. Several smaller statues were also found which were identified by their inscriptions as the “daughters” of the Moon-god. What about Arabia? As pointed out by Prof. Coon, “Muslims are notoriously loath to preserve traditions of earlier paganism and like to garble what pre-Islamic history they permit to survive in anachronistic terms.”
biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm

Hey, I’m just the messenger. (pun intended).
I don’t think it is demonizing to point origins of religion. I think every major religion has a bit of pagan in its closet.

The problem is that the source is not reliable. Read some of the things this site says about the Catholic Church. I KNOW they are wrong about the Catholic Church, therefore I would not trust the “scholarship” when it comes to others either.

Bible Believers Note, there is a similar website with a similar name. This one is in Australia.

The Catholic Church bases the statement “We worship the same God” on the stated beliefs of the members of Islam who say they worship the God of Abraham. We worship the God of Abraham even though we believe we have a better understanding of the nature of God than Muslims do.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[Melvin]

This is really a matter of linguistics, not faith. After all, ‘Deus’ comes from ‘deva’ or ‘dewa’ as seen in many Indo-European root languages (Sanskrit, Persian and so forth) root languages.

And those of us from European cultures have no shortage of ancient pagan symbols and traditions. Most likely, Yahweh was originally a tribal pantheon-style god too.

Edit: the Hebrew '‘el’ also means ‘God,’ and is closely related to the Babylonian, Aramaic and Arabic words. All are Semitic languages.

This is the second time recently I have seen the libelous statement that Yahweh was originally a “tribal pantheon-style god” or similar; just one of many “gods” arising out of the middle eastern deserts…

Obviously, such opinions spring neither from Christian faith, the traditions of the Church nor the teachings of the Jews. Scripture is clear that the Lord God (the great I Am) does not and never did exist as one of many “gods” or that He is a figment of the imagination of man striving through a vague religious sense to “understand his world.” That kind of claptrap comes from non-believing rationalists who limit their own ability to understand reality by taking the position that anything that smacks of the miraculous is by definition untrue or impossible, and that if it is not subject to scientific verification, it is false.

Scripture constantly teaches that this One God, the Creator of all, not only created but continually sought man, not the other way around. He came to us; we ran from Him.

Those who refuse to believe in the Lord have the right to make that decision, but they also have a right to understand that they are refusing to believe in the God whom the Church avers has really made Himself known and intervened in human history. Myths and libels regarding His claims for Himself are not sufficient.

 

[Valke2]

well, we certainly acknowledge that our ancestors were idol worshippors. Abraham’s father was said to have owned an idol shop.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

Greetings and peace to you all

If the same God created each and every one of us, then which God hears the prayers that Muslims make?

In the spirit of praying to one God

Eric

 

[Melvin]

well, we certainly acknowledge that our ancestors were idol worshippors. Abraham’s father was said to have owned an idol shop.

The worship of idols was due to the rejection of the worship of the True God. Idolatry followed and did not precede man’s knowledge of God.

God’s mercy be with us all.

 

[Valke2]

The worship of idols was due to the rejection of the worship of the True God. Idolatry followed and did not precede man’s knowledge of God.

God’s mercy be with us all.

don’t know what you mean by that. idolatry certainly preceeded Juaism as we know it.

 

[Valke2]

Greetings and peace to you all

If the same God created each and every one of us, then which God hears the prayers that Muslims make?

In the spirit of praying to one God

Eric

All muslim and christian prayers are directed to one of God’s administrative assistants. Sometimes, usually with the help of someone who “knows a guy who knows a guy” a prayer can be sent directly to God.

Jews, of course, do not have any of these problems. this is what is referred to in latin as, “a prioriti”

 

[rbarcia]

The three Abrahamic religions are Christianity, Islam, and Judaism. All stem from Abraham, and the God of Abraham is the God we all worship. Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet and that Mary was a virgin when He was conceived and born. We do worship the same God, we all just have different understandings of Him.

Christians worship the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob. That is why this statement is repeated so often in the Bible (Both old and new)

**

Romans 9

6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, 7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.” 8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. 9 For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.”
10 And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac 11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12 it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.”13 As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”

**

 

[Melvin]

don’t know what you mean by that. idolatry certainly preceeded Juaism as we know it.

Well, I don’t want to hold myself out as some kind of scholar or expert here, because I certainly am not, but idolatry did not precede the Garden of Eden and it did not precede Abel. After the slaying of Abel, God Himself confronted Cain as to the murder.

Ge. 4:26 makes clear that at the time of the birth of Enosh, son of Seth, son of Adam, “men began to call *on the name of the LORD.” *Enoch later then walked with God and was not, for God took him.

There was apparently idolatry prior to the Flood, if simply in man worshipping himself if not the manufacture of household gods. And there was apparently idolatry at the time of Abraham, but there is no indication (at least that I am aware) that Abram himself had ever been an idolater, and there is no indication that Abraham was unfamiliar with the Lord when the Lord called him in Ge. 12:1, although Josephus (certainly not the most reliable source I suppose) gives to Abraham the credit for publishing “the notion, that there was but one God, the Creator of the Universe.” But in that he apparently ignores Adam, Eve, et al…

The knowledge of the True God was always preserved from generation to generation throughout the history of mankind, at least by a few. Even the Hebrews, after 400 years of slavery, though they did not any longer know “His name,” knew of Him.

We also have St. Paul’s discourse in Ro. 1:18 - 32, in which he makes clear that men knew God, but did not “see fit to acknowledge Him as God.” Their “foolish minds” were darkened, and they changed the True God for idols.

I suppose, of course, one must be willing to accept that there is a true historical background to Holy Scripture, e.g., that Adam and Eve really existed, and that scripture is not all allegory. If one denies that, then my argument may have no basis. Then again, if one denies that, there is no reason to believe in Christ in the first place, is there?

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

The ancient-Semitic Sumerian’s moon god Nanna (known as Sin in Babylonia, since their Sumerian-derived language was much influenced by the Akkadians, and by other names to other groups in the area) is well known. The Sinai Peninsula, among other place-names, probably derives from this, not unlike other names, words and place-names deriving from ancient civilizations all over the world (ie, Athens).

Small POI - Akkadian is later than Sumerian by a few centuries, although there is influence in both directions. The Sumerians - which for all practical purposes means, the speakers of Sumerian - spoke a language entirely unconnected with any Semitic language, or any other. Loan-words apart, of course.​

I can’t see how it matters whether or not the Arabic name for God has anything to do with a derivation from the name of an aspect of Nanna-Sin or not. It may be related, it may not be. When Catholics worship in Latin, are they giving praise to Jupiter or Zeus by saying ‘Deus’ or ‘Deo’? I didn’t think so.

Quite - linguistic relationship is no proof (though it may well be evidence) of similarity of culture or religion: the Babylonians were Semites, as were the Jews: it doesn’t follow that their religions were in all respects identical; they weren’t. Conversely, the Etruscans and Assyrians both used divination by extispicy, but that doesn’t make them similar in all or any other respects. It’s very risky to generalise from a small sample of evidence - to look at all the available details from all possible POVs is essential.​

 

[Mirdath]

Small POI - Akkadian is later than Sumerian by a few centuries, although there is influence in both directions. The Sumerians - which for all practical purposes means, the speakers of Sumerian - spoke a language entirely unconnected with any Semitic language, or any other. Loan-words apart, of course.​

I’m aware of that – my post could have been better-constructed

 

[Valke2]

I suppose, of course, one must be willing to accept that there is a true historical background to Holy Scripture, e.g., that Adam and Eve really existed, and that scripture is not all allegory. If one denies that, then my argument may have no basis. Then again, if one denies that, there is no reason to believe in Christ in the first place, is there?

What exactly is your argument? I don’t think any one is suggesting Adam and Eve worshipped idols.