How can we "Agree to Disagree" When the Bible says to be of "One Mind"

[JRKH]

My take: “… all may be one…” and “… of one mind…”.

IF you guys believe that ALL means or includes all people of the world THEN count me out. I disagree.
IF you guys believe that ALL means or includes only validly baptised Christians STILL count me out. I disagree.
IF you guys agree that ALL means or includes only a certain group (His visible Church as a family) THEN count me in. We are one.

IF you guys believe that being ‘of one mind’ only means ‘everybody accepting Jesus as personal Lord and Saviour’ count me out- I disagree.
IF you guys believe that being of ‘one mind’ means ‘having Jesus ONLY as center of our lives without regards to His Church’ still count me out- I disagree.
IF you guys believe that Jesus speaks of one faith, of order IN His Church, of not drifting away from His teachings THEN count me in. We can be of one mind.
And then we as one family being obedient to whom he has sent will be able to proclaim His glory as the One sent by the Father…

Peace.:juggle:

Was I really that unclear in my OP?

I am refering to baptized Christians who all accept the Bible and yet disagree among themselves. And not JUST disagree but actually split the Body of Christ into denominations.
That is what the question points to - How can people who accept the Bible as True, ignore Christ’s call to be one as He and the Father are one? These are Christ’s own Words for goodness sake!!

A vine may have many branches, but each branch has the same DNA, produces the same leaves, bark and is nourished by the same sap. Each branch Produces the same Fruit. Each branch is One, as the entire vine is one.

Peace
James

 

[Tanner9188]

No I’m on the east side, (Anderson area) and was raised on the north side (Sharonville)
The Cincinnati Area has a good sized Catholic community all round.

Peace
James

**Yeah, but the largest per capita is or was the westside. I live in Northern, KY and there are 5-6 Catholic Churches within 5-6 miles of my house.

Just wondering; we are closer neighbors than I thought…God bless you neighbor.**

 

[Tanner9188]

Contarini:
I’m not sure what you mean. The Greek “ekklesia” does not refer to a building.

We don’t disagree about that. So what are you trying to prove? How to references to local churches prove that there is no universal Church?

And you haven’t answered my question about the local church in your community. Does it embrace all the Christians in your neighborhood? If not, what are you doing about this? (If you ask me, I’d have to say, “very little.” So I’m not asking this to condemn you.)
**We have many many local churches in our area; I don’t concern myself with what other local churchs are doing; I’m concerned about what our church does. We do have guest Pastors visit and our Pastor will also peach at other churches and once in a while we get together at another church or another church will come visit us; couple times a year.
Did you mean by embrace; accept or invite?

There is a universal church, but since we do not know who is elect and who is not; the true bride of Christ will be totally revealed at a later time. That is all I mean.**

Indeed. Something always to ponder in our *own *case, not as an excuse for condemning our brothers and sisters and fragmenting the Body of Christ in a certain place into a “gathered” community of people who think like us.

Edwin

**No, but the point I was making that in almost any gathering of a local church; that are the tares among the wheat. **

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

Tanner9188:

We have many many local churches in our area

Across the street from my Parish there is a Community Faith Church and another non-denominational Church. All three (including my parish) are within a block of each other. So which one is the ‘local Church’?

God bless

 

[Tanner9188]

Across the street from my Parish there is a Community Faith Church and another non-denominational Church. All three (including my parish) are within a block of each other. So which one is the ‘local Church’?

God bless

All 3 are local churches if they are in the same area…should you get together? I don’t know; that is up to the local leaders to decide or for someone to make a suggestion. I’m sure you all have doctrinal difference, but I would guess that feeding and clothing the poor, visiting the sick is not one of them.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

All 3 are local churches if they are in the same area…should you get together? I don’t know; that is up to the local leaders to decide or for someone to make a suggestion. I’m sure you all have doctrinal difference, but I would guess that feeding and clothing the poor, visiting the sick is not one of them.

Thank you Tanner for answering. Another question; if all three are the local Church, how would I carry out this verse of Scripture?

If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every word may be confirmed by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them,** tell it to the church**; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. Matt 18:15-17

Lets say my wife and I are at odds with whether we should Baptize our child. The Faith Community Church says not to but my Catholic Parish says to. Which local Church should we tell it to? And then listen to?

God bless

 

[thirdn6]

Was I really that unclear in my OP?

I am refering to baptized Christians who all accept the Bible and yet disagree among themselves. And not JUST disagree but actually split the Body of Christ into denominations.
That is what the question points to - How can people who accept the Bible as True, ignore Christ’s call to be one as He and the Father are one? These are Christ’s own Words for goodness sake!!

A vine may have many branches, but each branch has the same DNA, produces the same leaves, bark and is nourished by the same sap. Each branch Produces the same Fruit. Each branch is One, as the entire vine is one.

Peace
James

Hi James,

There are too many verses in the bible. Not everybody contemplates on those ones, even catholics.

Anyway to give you a more direct answer, imo, as long as there are doctrines different from that of the Catholic Church WE (ALL) cannot expect to be of one mind. More precisely… until all the other so called non-catholic Christian communities do not give up their man-made doctrines or belief systems we cannot be of one mind. No matter how much we can agree on. That’s why we keep praying for them to come home and be in full communion with us.

Being of one mind is being in one Catholic mind- manifested in the uniformity and universality of beliefs of all true Catholics in unity with the Pope.

My previous post: I just think we had to tackle first what the meaning of ‘ALL may be one’ is in Jesus’ prayer and the meaning of ‘being of one mind’ before we even have to discuss why we have to stop and say ‘agree to disagree’ instead of finding other ways to maintain the discussion and convincing each party to be one and in one mind with the other… because, again, which one has the right mind if we don’t define what those verses meant? To what extent- theologically? Morally? Very ambiguous don’t you think? One person says one deed is immoral and the other says not…

 

[JRKH]

All 3 are local churches if they are in the same area…should you get together? I don’t know; that is up to the local leaders to decide or for someone to make a suggestion. ** I’m sure you all have doctrinal difference**, but I would guess that feeding and clothing the poor, visiting the sick is not one of them.

Let me take a slightly different approach to this.
Does your own mind have “Doctrinal differences”?
Doctrinal differences so great that it actually splits your mind into two minds?

Now - I will grant that we can have issues and conflicts in our minds that we need to work through but ultimately don’t we have to come to some sort of decision and then be "Of One Mind?

Peace
James

 

[Tanner9188]

Thank you Tanner for answering. Another question; if all three are the local Church, how would I carry out this verse of Scripture?

Matthew 18:15-17 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. "But if he does not listen {to you,} take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. "If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a F405 tax collector. "

Lets say my wife and I are at odds with whether we should Baptize our child. The Faith Community Church says not to but my Catholic Parish says to. Which local Church should we tell it to? And then listen to?

God bless

**Assuming you have doctrinal differences concerning baptism of children; to the church you actually attend.

However, the Scripture you mentioned is about “church discipline”; therefore the example you gave would not apply. Now if your wife goes to Faith Community Church and you go to the Catholic Church; then you have a bit of a problem because of the doctrinal difference, but since you are the head of the household; I would side with you despite my doctrinal difference on sprinkling of infants.

Perhaps you might come up with a different “sin” scenario.**

 

[Tanner9188]

Let me take a slightly different approach to this.
Does your own mind have “Doctrinal differences”?
Doctrinal differences so great that it actually splits your mind into two minds?

Now - I will grant that we can have issues and conflicts in our minds that we need to work through but ultimately don’t we have to come to some sort of decision and then be "Of One Mind?

Peace
James

**James,

I’m not following here; could you clarify or rephrase the question?..Thanks**

 

[Stouts989]

I’m not as sure as you are that some people will be damned. However, granting this for the sake of argument, you certainly don’t think that we should refrain from working toward the goal of bringing all human beings to a living knowledge of God in Christ, right? So would you agree that the same is true for unity? It’s part of our calling as Christians (indeed, I’d say that unity in Christ and evangelizing the world are not two distinct things), even if it won’t happen short of Christ’s return.

Edwin

If you believe that everyone is going to heaven, then you’re putting your faith in a false Gospel and not believe what Jesus taught and warned us about. Jesus talked about hell more than anyone else in the Bible.

No I don’t believe that. I do believe we need to be sharing the Gospel across the globe. To all men and women of every nation (Matthew 28:19). The fact is though, the only ones who will accept the truth of Christ are the elect, the ones God has called. We don’t know who those people are, so we must be sharing the Gospel to all.

I also believe that all Christians should be working towards being united in Christ. We are called to work towards this goal…just like how we are called to be perfect and holy, because God is perfect and Holy. But these are impossible goals to reach during our time here on earth and wont be reached until Christ comes again or we meet Him in heaven.

Just like everything else, God uses our imperfections and division to continue to bring praise and glory Himself, to humble us, and to continually remind us that He is God, and we are not.

 

[JRKH]

**James,

I’m not following here; could you clarify or rephrase the question?..Thanks**

I’ll try -
I assume that you, like most people, have one mind.
So, within your own single mind, how many doctrinal differences do you have with yourself?

If you do have doctrinal issues that you have not decided on, will you allow such issues to cause a permanent split in your mind? Will you be of two minds on a doctrinal issue?

Peace
James

 

[Tanner9188]

I’ll try -
I assume that you, like most people, have one mind.
So, within your own single mind, how many doctrinal differences do you have with yourself?

Peace
James

**Are you asking about doctrinal teachings in Scripture? If so; I accept all the doctrines taught in Scripture; that I am aware of at this point in my walk. The most important doctrine, IMO, is the doctrine of Salvation.

If this is not what you meant, then perhaps repeat the question and give an example…thanks and God bless you.**

 

[Tanner9188]

I’ll try -
I assume that you, like most people, have one mind.
So, within your own single mind, how many doctrinal differences do you have with yourself?

If you do have doctrinal issues that you have not decided on, will you allow such issues to cause a permanent split in your mind? Will you be of two minds on a doctrinal issue?

Peace
James

**I don’t know if this is worth noting, but if you click on the link below; you will see all occurrences of the phrase “one mind” in the entire Bible. There are only six verses that match the phrase exactly, so it won’t take much time.

searchgodsword.org/desk/?l=en&query=%22one+mind%22&section=0&translation=nas&sr=1&Enter=Perform+Search (NASB)

8 times in the NKJV:
searchgodsword.org/desk/?language=en&query=%22one+mind%22&section=0&translation=nkj&oq=%2522one%2520mind%2522&new=1&sr=1 (NKJV)**

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

Perhaps you might come up with a different “sin” scenario.

Sure. Contraception. The faith community says its okay, my Catholic Parish says it’s not. Which local Church do my wife and I listen to?

God bless

 

[JRKH]

**Are you asking about doctrinal teachings in Scripture? If so; I accept all the doctrines taught in Scripture; that I am aware of at this point in my walk. The most important doctrine, IMO, is the doctrine of Salvation.

If this is not what you meant, then perhaps repeat the question and give an example…thanks and God bless you.**

You seem to be reading too much into the question that I ask.
Forget Scripture, forget interaction with other people or other faiths etc.
I Am Talking About what it means to be of ONE MIND.
HOW DOES ONE MIND THINK?

Does your mind think it is OK to Speed AND it is wrong to Speed?
Does your mind think it is OK to Steal AND it is wrong to Steal?

Does your “One Mind” permit different and opposing Doctrinal Beliefs?

Peace
James

 

[Tanner9188]

Sure. Contraception. The faith community says its okay, my Catholic Parish says it’s not. Which local Church do my wife and I listen to?

God bless

First, I would listen to the word of God, then it would no longer be an issue.

Beyond that; I would listen to the local church that you attend. It is not a salvation issue.

Also, even in that example, assuming it was a sin to use contraception and assuming it is not a contraception that kills a fetus, which would be murder, like the “morning after pill”, then church discipline would have been difficult because how would one know that you were or were not using contraception?

Let’s say you were caught cheating on your wife by kissing and embracing another woman in public and someone from your church witnessed it. That person needs to confront you and your sin one and one. Let’s say that you agree, but the next opportunity you have you do the same thing and are found out by the same person or someone else in your church or perhaps you felt guilty and confessed to someone else in your church, then 2 or more should confront you and your sin in a loving way and rebuke you; if you still don’t listen, then those who rebuked you have the responsibility to bring it before the church leadership; who may after knowing this will be your third warning, may decide to intervene with you directly or bring it before the entire congregation. If you still refuse to listen, at which this time your wife may know, and are not repentant, then they should give you the boot because you are intentionally sinning against your family and against God and have no remorse, which indicates you might be an apostate.

 

[Tanner9188]

You seem to be reading too much into the question that I ask.
Forget Scripture, forget interaction with other people or other faiths etc.
I Am Talking About what it means to be of ONE MIND.
HOW DOES ONE MIND THINK?

Does your mind think it is OK to Speed AND it is wrong to Speed? 1
Does your mind think it is OK to Steal AND it is wrong to Steal? 2

Does your “One Mind” permit different and opposing Doctrinal Beliefs? 3

Peace
James

1-No, 2-no and 3-I don’t believe and I hope not.

A good example is purchasing products on the internet that you have not paid sales tax on; then at the end of the year when you do your state form and the question is asked if you made those types of purchases and how much, so the state can collect taxes. Well it is an honor system, are you diligent to keep good records and report and pay the sales tax or not? I know “Christians” that will not; to me that is a violation of God’s law and command to obey authorities and to give to Caesar the things that are Caesars and to God the things of God. It is cheating and stealing IMO.
“One Mind” in Scripture would be akin to having the “mind of Christ” and the fulfillment would be “love” ; love one another and love the Lord.

 

[Peter_J]

It depends on what you mean by “agree to disagree.” If you mean “go our separate ways,” then I totally agree with you. But if you are suggesting that any theological disagreement within the Church is incompatible with being of “one mind,” then this is clearly an untenable position. Catholicism has always contained within itself an abundance of theological perspectives (the obvious example is Thomism vs. Molinism, because in that case you actually have a papal degree *ordering *both sides to “agree to disagree”).

Clearly the “one mind” in question is the “mind of Christ,” not total theological agreement, which is impossible. We are to be united in Christ and hold one another accountable in love as we all grow together toward the full stature of Christ. That doesn’t mean that we have all the same opinions. Nor does it give us a clear guideline as to how much theological disagreement is legitimate. But it does mean that we can never be happy to just go our separate ways and develop our separate versions of Christianity in competition with each other.

In Christ,

Edwin

I think that a lot of Protestant posters (and, for that matter, a good number of Catholic posters as well) greatly underestimate the “Traditionalist Catholic” presence here.

The reason I bring this up is this: when you speak of 'suggesting that any theological disagreement within the Church is incompatible with being of “one mind” ', you are in fact describing what I consider to be one of the central tenets of “Traditionalist Catholics”. Or, looking at it the other way, when you say ‘Nor does it give us a clear guideline as to how much theological disagreement is legitimate’, you’re making a nonsensical statement from the “Traditionalist Catholic” point of view.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

First, I would listen to the word of God, then it would no longer be an issue.

In my scenario we have (or rather we are trying):

"If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every word may be confirmed by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them,** tell it to the church**; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. Matt 18:15-17

How would my wife and I faithfully carry out this command of Scripture under your idea of what the Church is? All we are trying to do is follow this command of Scripture, but how do we do this?

Beyond that; I would listen to the local church that you attend. It is not a salvation issue.

What if my wife attends one and I the other? My Catholic Parish considers it a mortal sin, so it is a salvation issue. The Faith Community doesn’t. The question is, which local Church do we listen to in order to comply with Matt. 18?

Also, even in that example, assuming it was a sin to use contraception

I am not assuming anything. My Catholic Parish considers it a sin but the Faith Community doesn’t. As far as I am concerned the local Church has made it decision per Matt. 18. I am just curious which local Churches decision we should listen to.

So which local Church should we listen to?

God bless you