How can we be modestly dressed when we are swimming

[bobzills]

It depends on where you are at and what your intentions are, in my opinion.

Father Kunkel does not agre with you. According to Father Kunkel: “Ask yourself - have you ever seen the Blessed Mother portrayed in anything less than this? Have you ever seen her in any of her approved apparitions with even her head uncovered?”
“Swimwear for women must at all costs be modest. The soul of another could be at stake!1”
Some substitutes for bikinis are “ biking shorts over which a skirt is placed extending to knee level. A loose top is added. Otherwise, one could simply wear a dark t-shirt and long shorts as a substitute.”
Further: “Skirts and dresses, following the direction of Blessed Padre Pio, should extend at least 8" (eight inches) below the knee…”
lffa-ollmpc.com/standards.htm

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Father Kunkel does not agre with you. According to Father Kunkel: “Ask yourself - have you ever seen the Blessed Mother portrayed in anything less than this? Have you ever seen her in any of her approved apparitions with even her head uncovered?”
“Swimwear for women must at all costs be modest. The soul of another could be at stake!1”
Some substitutes for bikinis are “ biking shorts over which a skirt is placed extending to knee level. A loose top is added. Otherwise, one could simply wear a dark t-shirt and long shorts as a substitute.”
Further: “Skirts and dresses, following the direction of Blessed Padre Pio, should extend at least 8" (eight inches) below the knee…”
lffa-ollmpc.com/standards.htm

And Father Kunkel isn’t speaking infallibly as the magisterium of the Catholic Church. And the catechism of the Church has not defined what apparel is modest and what is not. So, what of Father Kunkel?

As far as the Blessed Mother goes, I don’t expect her to be wearing a bikini, nor do I expect our Lord Jesus to be wearing a speedo. So? Nor do I expect all Catholic and Christian men to wear robes everywhere they go, just like Jesus did.

We are not the Blessed Mother and we are not the Lord Jesus. As I’ve said before, they see us in our birthday suits every single day (that is - if you shower daily and change clothes). Is our body sinful in the eyes of our Lord and Blessed Mother?

If, as Father Kunkel has stated, that souls are at stake because of immodest dress, then I would venture to guess that we’re all going to hell. Lord help us all.

 

[bobzills]

And Father Kunkel isn’t speaking infallibly as the magisterium of the Catholic Church. And the catechism of the Church has not defined what apparel is modest and what is not. So, what of Father Kunkel?

As far as the Blessed Mother goes, I don’t expect her to be wearing a bikini, nor do I expect our Lord Jesus to be wearing a speedo. So? Nor do I expect all Catholic and Christian men to wear robes everywhere they go, just like Jesus did.

We are not the Blessed Mother and we are not the Lord Jesus. As I’ve said before, they see us in our birthday suits every single day (that is - if you shower daily and change clothes). Is our body sinful in the eyes of our Lord and Blessed Mother?

If, as Father Kunkel has stated, that souls are at stake because of immodest dress, then I would venture to guess that we’re all going to hell. Lord help us all.

It’s too bad that many Catholic women are rejecting the advise of Father Kunkel and others on the importance of modest and decent dress.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

It’s too bad that many Catholic women are rejecting the advise of Father Kunkel and others on the importance of modest and decent dress.

His advice is only his advice. He’s one priest. He’s not the magisterium. As he is not the magisterium he does not speak for the universal Church - that same Church which has not defined dogmatically what is immodest in swimwear or what breakfast cereal should be eaten.

Listen, I understand your arguments. I would personally rather see women wear modest clothing. But that’s a far cry from mandating it - imposing it upon Catholic women. If a pronouncement was made from the magisterium, I’m sure that the Catholic women on this thread would submit to that authority.

Obedience to the magisterium is not the issue. As it stands, Catholic women are free to wear swimwear at their discretion. We are all called to holiness, Bob. That applies to Christians everywhere, men and women. While I believe your intentions are good and sincere, that doesn’t justify condemning Catholic women for their swimwear or imposing a dress code in public places.

 

[bobzills]

His advice is only his advice. He’s one priest. He’s not the magisterium. As he is not the magisterium he does not speak for the universal Church - that same Church which has not defined dogmatically what is immodest in swimwear or what breakfast cereal should be eaten.

Listen, I understand your arguments. I would personally rather see women wear modest clothing. But that’s a far cry from mandating it - imposing it upon Catholic women. If a pronouncement was made from the magisterium, I’m sure that the Catholic women on this thread would submit to that authority.

Obedience to the magisterium is not the issue. As it stands, Catholic women are free to wear swimwear at their discretion. We are all called to holiness, Bob. That applies to Christians everywhere, men and women. While I believe your intentions are good and sincere, that doesn’t justify condemning Catholic women for their swimwear or imposing a dress code in public places.

It is not just one priest, Father Kunkel. There are many other Catholic priests recommending modesty in dress. For example, there is Father Joseph Jenkins the pastor of Holy Family Church, Mitchellville, MD in the Archdiocese of Washington, DC, who is advocating the wearing of modest swimwear. In fact, Father Jenkins, goes one step further than Father Kunkel and recommends that all Catholic women wear the Muslim type swimsuits that I have referred to above. He says that Catholic homeschoolers and Muslim girls can swim together in the muslim type swimwear. He advises people to admonish Catholic women who wear indecent swimwear as follows: “Have you no shame for exposing yourselves in underwear? … Prostitutes wear more clothes than you! Why don’t you save money and just wear a couple pieces of cotton thread instead of that $500 string-bikini! Your butt is fat! My newborn baby sees you and all he wants to do is nurse!”
Please see:
MODEST SWIMSUITS AT LAST!
fatherjoe.wordpress.com/2007/02/22/modest-swimsuits-at-last/

 

[VeronicaAnne]

Wow. I didn’t expect there to be so many pages of posts in this thread when I started reading it. Got thorough most of the first 5 or 6 pages… then just glanced at posts at the once since the first 5 or 6 pages. So, please forgive me if I’ve repeated a point of view that anybody else has already stated.

Here is my take on the whole “modestly dressed when swimming” topic.

1. I consider 2-piece swimsuits on women to look like underwear.
2. I wear a one piece swimsuit. A modest one.
3. Even so, one time when I was in my 20’s I was at the Beach Boardwalk in Santa Cruz, I decided to “gird my loins” so to speak and get on the roller coaster. I’m afraid of them… but I thought I would at least give it a try. Even though I went to the beach by myself.

The Giant Dipper at the Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk

It has a video for the virtual ride on that site

Each seat on the ride had a place for 2 people to sit. So I got on one side of the seat. Then the man who was behind me in line got on the other side of the seat.

The entire time the ride was running… I was scared because it just proved to me that roller coasters are NOT something that I enjoy.

What made it worse was that the man who sat in the seat next to me did nothing with his eyes but look down directly at where my legs met my torso (if you get what I mean).

He just giggled to himself in a really nasty way.

Oh. And he was older than dirt, too.

Staring at me. A true DOM.

I was so embarrassed!! And I had nowhere to go. Nothing I could do.

I just thanked God at least because I had a one-piece suit on, that covered me very well.

I did nothing at all on purpose to “make him happier,” but that, he did. And that was something like 30 years ago. I can still remember that experience.

Okay… next point.

1. Speedos do nothing for me (well, seeing a man in a Speedo, I mean)… other than tell me that the man wants to … for some reason… like women who wear scanty swimsuits… show off their looks. Or, even worse, are choosing to succomb to pressure from either what they think others think is best… or for the sake of Fashion.
2. As for whomever said that a woman would be more modestly dressed if wearing a t-shirt on top (along with whatever bottoms they were wearing), that unless there’s something additional UNDER the t-shirt, then just a t-shirt is worse than some of the tops of two-piece swimsuits.
3. I think it’s really strange to see girls who are younger than teenagers wear two-piece swimsuits, too. Maybe that’s just me… yet, it’s a pretty strange thing for a little girl to wear.
4. For whomever it was who was speaking about wearing two-piece swimsuits to get a tan… um… when I see a tan all I think is “oh, my gosh… she’s (or he’s) damaging his skin so much that it’s making itself brown to protect itself.” I don’t happen to consider a tan to be an attractive thing to have.

BTW, my skin is pretty white. And it will not tan, at all. I’ve got redhead skin that cannot tan, anyway. But, boy… do I burn no matter what! Unless I’m wearing BullFrog sun blocking lotion.

I’m not mad, or anything. Bottom line… for me, seeing a two-piece swimsuit makes me think that it’s just a kind of underwear.

 

[GraceDK]

It’s too bad that many Catholic women are rejecting the advise of Father Kunkel and others on the importance of modest and decent dress.

I have a priest that advocates women priests and say evil spirits dont exist.
He is a priest. so would you like to take those oppinions?
No I dont think so.
Its too bad that so many Catholic men reject the advice of our Lord himself when they cast judgement on their fellow sisters and see the fault in others but forget to recognize the evil in their own eye. That I would be more worried about…
Pride and jugement is what we talk about as sinful in European churches. In america some catholics have lost themseves in the exterior, just like it happend to the pharisees.

 

[GraceDK]

It is not just one priest, Father Kunkel. There are many other Catholic priests recommending modesty in dress. For example, there is Father Joseph Jenkins the pastor of Holy Family Church, Mitchellville, MD in the Archdiocese of Washington, DC, who is advocating the wearing of modest swimwear. In fact, Father Jenkins, goes one step further than Father Kunkel and recommends that all Catholic women wear the Muslim type swimsuits that I have referred to above. He says that Catholic homeschoolers and Muslim girls can swim together in the muslim type swimwear. He advises people to admonish Catholic women who wear indecent swimwear as follows: “Have you no shame for exposing yourselves in underwear? … Prostitutes wear more clothes than you! Why don’t you save money and just wear a couple pieces of cotton thread instead of that $500 string-bikini! Your butt is fat! My newborn baby sees you and all he wants to do is nurse!”
Please see:
MODEST SWIMSUITS AT LAST!
fatherjoe.wordpress.com/2007/02/22/modest-swimsuits-at-last/

Father Jenkins must have had a really bad day.
If I ever hear a priest speak thus in I will stand up rank and walk out of his church faster that you can count to three.
What a self conceited and arrogant man. His talk is gross. He speaks like a man with no authority and no wisdom. If the teaching magisterium would ever stoop that low I would not be catholic anymore.
To be frank… its men like you bobzills that make people all over the place in the rest of the world talk of a mistaken rigidism in American catholicism. (and oh yes… we do analyse what is going on) We truly believe that some of you have become pharisaic…
I am not married, but sometimes after discussions like these I even start to wonder if I want to marry a Catholic man when the day comes. Thank God for real men like Mystic Warrior… there is still hope.

If all Catholic women would be so manipulated that they ever start to wear muslim swim wear … on that day I might do the unthinkable and walk totally naked into their midst for the sake of the symbolism.
The burka is a symbol of repression of the human person within islam… its a shame both for men and for women when women feel compelled to wear such clothes.

Pope John Paul took off the fig leaves that popes before him had had painted over the genitals on paintings in the Sixtene chapel.
You might want to ponder why he took off these fig trees…

 

[Sam_777]

when Islam is practiced with its inherent call to sharia etc, its in the same category as communism and nazism. Here in my country we even see young muslims these days saying “hail Hitler” and “slaughter all the Jews”.

True, Muslims can’t practice Islam without all its sources (Quran & Hadiths), if someone would create his/her own version of Islam then we would have new heretic sect like Ahmedyah and Quranians.

One thing I still respect about practicing Muslims is that they take their religion seriously.
The vast majority of Christians do not, in my opinion.

Yes, Muslims take their religion seriously, BUT few of them implement it right.
For example Islamic counties who call themselves “Islamic countries” are not implementing Islamic law (aka Sharea), the only country in the world who is implementing that is Saudi Arabia (since the constitution here is the Quran).

And since Muslims in those countries can’t go against the will of their Imam (aka country president), its difficult to take their religion seriously, a recent example of that nowadays is what happened in Gaza, some Muslims want to practise Jihad against Israel, but the Imam (country president) is refusing to let those people go.

I will clarify my comment about PRACTICING. I meant to say that Islam when practiced with moderation (at it should be),

No, I disagree with you here, Islam should be practised as practised during Muhammed days, not what we see nowadays in most Islamic countries, a good example of a Muslim who is fully practising that is Osama Bin Laden and his group.

saying “salaam meikum” etc shows nothing of the spirit of man…

I agree.

We do not kill apostates. We call for repentance. We do not advocate theocracy and have no problem asking for forgivenss for the time where the Church did indeed practice tyranny. But Islam is totally oblivious of its own faults. There is no humility. No accept of weakness. Islam promotes the kalifath and the ownership of soil when it has once belonged to muslim people.

Sorry but that is the law of Islam.

Lets look at Scripture and how the Love of God has revealed Himself in the Christian revelation. Its a hundred percent contradiction to Islam,

I totally agree with you.

In Europe we have muslims standing in line to come into our democrasies.

Sadly yes.

1. Was Muhammad the first older man to marry a young girl? What was the customs of the Arabs before Islam, as regards marriage age? Some scholars think Aisha was 17. Does that still make him a pedophile? Do some research!

I agree with GraceDK, she was at 6, even he wanted to marry another girl which was much younger than that, read these authentic hadiths about that:

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64**:**
“Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).”
(E) (A)

مسند أحمد:
أن رسول الله ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏رأى ‏ ‏أم حبيبة بنت عباس ‏ ‏وهي فوق الفطيم قالت فقال ‏ ‏لئن بلغت بنية ‏ ‏العباس ‏ ‏هذه وأنا حي لأتزوجنها
​

(A)

However, those scholars claiming otherwise are heretics.

1. Muhammad was a head of state. Does he not then have (with the consensus of the governed) the authority to decree a death sentence?

Yes, I agree, the Imam has such rights but it shouldn’t disagree with the Sharea.

If you are saying he was anti-Jewish, that is quite another thing. I think you would be hard pressed, though, to prove that he was anti-jewish on the level of the European persecution of the Jews.

Yes, he was Anti-Jewish, read these sources about Jews killing:

First: ordered by Allah because they turned out the Palestinians from their claimed land:
(Quran 2:191):
“And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.”

Second: Muhammed claimed prophecy:
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177:
“Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah’s Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him.”
(E) (A)

Third: Muhammed ordered his followers to stay in Jerusalem so that their descendants keep going to the sacred mosque.

مسند أحمد:
قلت يا رسول الله ‏ ‏إن ابتلينا بعدك بالبقاء أين تأمرنا قال عليك ‏ ‏ببيت المقدس ‏ ‏فلعله أن ينشأ لك ذرية ‏ ‏يغدون ‏ ‏إلى ذلك ‏ ‏المسجد ‏ ‏ويروحون ‏
​

(A)

 

[PaulinVA]

I don’t get it. I really don’t.

I am a man. I am responsible for who/what I look at.

I would imagine that women would want to wear swimsuits that are in the mainstream, but are on the modest side. Low cut legs or shorts, and nothing overly obvious up top.

When you start to wear things that are out of the ordinary you do two things. First, you draw attention to yourself, which is the opposite of your intent. Second, if you are dressed from head to toe, you are a negative witness. People might thing you a little strange and not want to join your church.

And, I’ve said this before and I don’t want to offend anyone, but most people really don’t need to be overly concerned about how they dress around the pool.

 

[beenwashed]

Father Kunkel does not agre with you. According to Father Kunkel: “Ask yourself - have you ever seen the Blessed Mother portrayed in anything less than this? Have you ever seen her in any of her approved apparitions with even her head uncovered?”
“Swimwear for women must at all costs be modest. The soul of another could be at stake!1”
Some substitutes for bikinis are “ biking shorts over which a skirt is placed extending to knee level. A loose top is added. Otherwise, one could simply wear a dark t-shirt and long shorts as a substitute.”
Further: “Skirts and dresses, following the direction of Blessed Padre Pio, should extend at least 8" (eight inches) below the knee…”
lffa-ollmpc.com/standards.htm

The interesting thing about that website is this: #“5. This list would also exclude pants, slacks, culottes, jeans, shorts and such, as they have been proven to be men’s attire, and harmfull for women and society at large, and against God’s command in Deut. 22:5.”

So since you seem to agree with this website that you posted, Do you think that women and girls should never wear pants?

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

It is not just one priest, Father Kunkel. There are many other Catholic priests recommending modesty in dress. For example, there is Father Joseph Jenkins the pastor of Holy Family Church, Mitchellville, MD in the Archdiocese of Washington, DC, who is advocating the wearing of modest swimwear. In fact, Father Jenkins, goes one step further than Father Kunkel and recommends that all Catholic women wear the Muslim type swimsuits that I have referred to above. He says that Catholic homeschoolers and Muslim girls can swim together in the muslim type swimwear. He advises people to admonish Catholic women who wear indecent swimwear as follows: “Have you no shame for exposing yourselves in underwear? … Prostitutes wear more clothes than you! Why don’t you save money and just wear a couple pieces of cotton thread instead of that $500 string-bikini! Your butt is fat! My newborn baby sees you and all he wants to do is nurse!”
Please see:
MODEST SWIMSUITS AT LAST!
fatherjoe.wordpress.com/2007/02/22/modest-swimsuits-at-last/

Oh yes, this site says it all. First, let me publicly declare that I am not Catholic (as my profile accurately shows). I lean towards the Catholic Church theologically and in regards to spirituality. It’s a long story about why I haven’t made it into the Church yet. I just wanted you and GraceDK to be aware in case you haven’t viewed my profile.

Now, I’m a little shocked at the demeanor of this priest. I’m going to quote some things that I find trouble with. If you believe anything is out of context or presented unfairly, then let me know. But, here’s what he has to say in his own words:

“Well, if you are tired of parading your young daughters to the ravenous beach wolves, there is hope in sight”

Ravenous beach wolves, eh? These supposed “beach wolves” also gawk at covered up women on the street too, no matter what they are wearing. Maybe these “ravenous wolves” need a swift kick in the butt from their fathers. Where’s the admonition for the young men to curb their lust - (which is firm Catholic teaching)?

Here’s one of my favorites:
Father Joe:

The flipside to all this is that it will help us save our young Catholic boys from corruption, too. No matter how we raise them, let us be honest, when it comes to the flesh, the male of the species is weak. Girls flirt and shamelessly show themselves off to boys, arguing that it is okay as long as they do not get the boys’ engines running. Silly silly girls, boys are born with their motors running. Sexual morality will always be what young women want it to be. If most girls set limits and said “NO!” more often, boys would accept it and be better off. These swimsuits will help…out of sight, out of mind.

Whoa, nelly! This is something. I see basically a “boys will be boys” mentality going on here, which is wrong. Where is the admonition to raise our young boys to honor women? To curb lust? If boys are corrupted, it’s not the women’s fault. Temptation is common to all people. How will these young men learn to deal with temptation and overcome it if they are never tempted? Impossible, I say.

Contrary to the convictions of this poorly misguided and near-sighted priest, sexual morality is not defined by women. It is defined by God and the Church. You would think he would have learned that in seminary. He talks out of both sides of his mouth. He says that “boys would accept it and be better off”, yet admits his belief that “boys are born with their motors running”.

My take on this this priest’s drivel is this: boys should not be responsible for their lust because they are “born with it” and girls are entirely responsible for the lustful ways of boys. He doesn’t seem to have a lot of faith in our young boys and men. That’s a shame.

He is discriminating against Catholic women and women in general. He should be ashamed of himself. If his ideas were put into place by the magisterium (which, as I reiterate, is not their position), we’re talking about going back in time to a place where women didn’t have the right to vote and were relegated to being servants of men.

But, thank our God in Heaven, this man is not a bishop and does not speak for the Church universal.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

I don’t get it. I really don’t.

I am a man. I am responsible for who/what I look at.

Bingo

We aren’t apes. We aren’t cavemen. We are supposed to be self-controlled, intelligent men who honor women and love them, not lustful and condemning of the women God has commanded us to love as ourselves.

I’ve said it before on this thread - I do look at women on the beach who are beautiful, as God created them to be. I appreciate that beauty, but I don’t get down on all fours and start panting like a dog with slobber all over myself.

I’ll reserve my judgment on why some men believe the way that Father Joe does. I don’t know their heart. But, I will say that there must be something going on inside of a man who cannot control his lust and blames it on somebody else. I would call that mentality “blaming the victim” and akin to a situation of raping a woman and justifying it with the mentality that “they had it coming to them because of their behavior or dress”.

I wash my hands of anyone who has this mentality. May God have mercy upon them.

 

[beenwashed]

Fr Joe,
“Less willing to go naked as many so-called Catholics and other Christians these days, these girls also want fun in the sun, laying on the beach, and swimming in the surf. But, they do not want to forfeit their virginity or be prey to voyeurs in doing it.”
Whenever I went to the beach in my two piece swimsuit, I don’t ever remember having to forfeit my virginity.

Fr Joe,
“SPLASHGEAR MODEST SWIMWEAR has been designed with loose-fitting swim shirts (yes, even that pretty neck is covered!), swim pants (legs, what legs?) and hair covers (which she can use at Mass, too!)”

Last I checked, we ladies didn’t have to wear headveils…and who would wear a swimsuit piece on their head to church anyways?

Fr Joe,
“Why these girls look almost like boys they are covered so effectively”
Why did God create us to look different, if he wanted girls to almost look like boys?

Fr Joe,
“If most girls set limits and said “NO!” more often, boys would accept it and be better off.”
So it’s the girls fault for all of this oversexualization of everyone?

Fr Joe, (in the comments section of this website)

"I do not know what to say?

Apologies are offered if my tongue-in-cheek style offended anyone.

I certainly support modest swimwear, but I thought that most would regard the styles offered as a tad much. Maybe I am wrong?

Christian families are already buying into swimwear styles not dissimilar from that worn by Muslims. I did not know about this.

God bless them and their efforts."
Hmmm, I guess even for him he thought that the Muslim style swimsuits were a bit much.

 

[GraceDK]

Bingo

We aren’t apes. We aren’t cavemen. We are supposed to be self-controlled, intelligent men who honor women and love them, not lustful and condemning of the women God has commanded us to love as ourselves.

I’ve said it before on this thread - I do look at women on the beach who are beautiful, as God created them to be. I appreciate that beauty, but I don’t get down on all fours and start panting like a dog with slobber all over myself.

I’ll reserve my judgment on why some men believe the way that Father Joe does. I don’t know their heart. But, I will say that there must be something going on inside of a man who cannot control his lust and blames it on somebody else. I would call that mentality “blaming the victim” and akin to a situation of raping a woman and justifying it with the mentality that “they had it coming to them because of their behavior or dress”.

I wash my hands of anyone who has this mentality. May God have mercy upon them.

Oh dear me… you are not Catholic…
heheh … there goes my optimism about young Catholic compatible men because of you…
Instead of preachers like you we are left with Fr. Joe… He must have had some trauma in his childhhood. I shudder when I think of people going to confession at his church.
If I ever heard a priest talk like him he would no longer be my priest. I would first assume he was joking big time… if he were actually not I would report him to the bishop. I hope the young men and women in Joe’s parish reported him too… and dont listen to his hatetalk.
Think how it would sound if he talked that way about Jews or black people… this is precisely how antisemitic and racist-logic goes too.
But according to my observance there really is a growing tendency to male shuvanism and onesidedness in American Catholic circles. I feel sorry especially for young men because they are taught to be like pharisees.
I remember the first time I met an American blame-it-all-on-the-women kind of catholic face to face… thats another story but one that has deeply effected me.
By the way… what are you then MW? and why not Catholic? By the way… thank you for defending the Catholic Church

BeenWashed I totally hear you. can you believe this guy?

Grace

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Oh dear me… you are not Catholic…
heheh … there goes my optimism about young Catholic compatible men because of you…
Instead of preachers like you we are left with Fr. Joe… He must have had some trauma in his childhhood. I shudder when I think of people going to confession at his church.
If I ever heard a priest talk like him he would no longer be my priest. I would first assume he was joking big time… if he were actually not I would report him to the bishop. I hope the young men and women in Joe’s parish reported him too… and dont listen to his hatetalk.
Think how it would sound if he talked that way about Jews or black people… this is precisely how antisemitic and racist-logic goes too.
But according to my observance there really is a growing tendency to male shuvanism and onesidedness in American Catholic circles. I feel sorry especially for young men because they are taught to be like pharisees.
I remember the first time I met an American blame-it-all-on-the-women kind of catholic face to face… thats another story but one that has deeply effected me.
By the way… what are you then MW? and why not Catholic? By the way… thank you for defending the Catholic Church

BeenWashed I totally hear you. can you believe this guy?

Grace

I know - sorry to dash your hopes I really think that Catholic men like Father Joe are an anomaly in the Church. I mean, if you look at the Catholic posters so far on this thread you’ll see that a small minority align themselves with Father Joe, while the majority have a balanced view.

I’m a baptized Christian who attends a Lutheran church. My journey to the Catholic Church has been filled with difficulties. Three years ago I spoke with a wonderful pastor and the RCIA director. But, all of my optimism and joy at wanting to enter was hampered by opposition at home to converting. I attended a few masses and loved it, although it hurt me deeply to not receive communion. I hope to one day convert and call myself Catholic. For now, I’m a wannabe Catholic-in-training.

Don’t give up hope on finding a suitable Catholic mate who honors you and appreciates your beauty that God has given you. Shake off the dust of those like Father Joe. Pray that he and others like him will seek to fix themselves instead of imposing this false ideology onto Catholic women everywhere.

MW

 

[Frank_Cox]

Google for “Burqini”.

rossum

People used to have no problem with this , look at old photographs of the beach. Either you are going to follow God’s rules or man’s and the Bible is clear that showing your thigh is nudity.
Since it is so hard to find modest swim wear we seperate the boys and girls when they swim. Otherwise they have to improvise and wear long shorts and shirt.
If as you say there is no ultimate truth how do you know that is true?

Jesus Christ said there are absolutes so how can a Christian say there are not?

Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

To say there are no absolutes is pagan philosophy, humanism, not Christianity.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

People used to have no problem with this , look at old photographs of the beach. Either you are going to follow God’s rules or man’s and the Bible is clear that showing your thigh is nudity.

And can you share that Scripture with us? And, while you’re at it, can you show me where in the Catechism there may be such a reference? And further, can you provide a proclamation from the magisterium on the issue of modesty, swimming and swimwear?

Since it is so hard to find modest swim wear we seperate the boys and girls when they swim. Otherwise they have to improvise and wear long shorts and shirt.
If as you say there is no ultimate truth how do you know that is true?

I don’t follow. Separate the boys and girls when they swim? Who has to improvise and wear long shorts and shirt?

Jesus Christ said there are absolutes so how can a Christian say there are not?

And what is the absolute truth from our Lord, the magisterium and the Bible about this issue?

Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Okay. Yep. I agree with what our Lord said. And He was talking about belief and faith in Him as the Son of God, Redeemer of mankind. I guess I don’t follow your thought pattern here.

To say there are no absolutes is pagan philosophy, humanism, not Christianity.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

I guess I’m lost as to why you bring this up to rossum and how this is relevant to the topic at hand.

 

[GraceDK]

…
I guess I’m lost as to why you bring this up to rossum and how this is relevant to the topic at hand.

I second that. I think some people here seek to give divine mandate to their personal taste and opinion about what goes and what doesnt.
Besides… what we all ought to know is that there has existed no real beach culture until within the last century. People simply did not sunbathe etc some hundred years ago…
Therefore whoever tries to find pictures from swim fashion will come up with recent pictures that display “immodest dress” in some peoples oppinion.

 

[Frank_Cox]

And can you share that Scripture with us? And, while you’re at it, can you show me where in the Catechism there may be such a reference? And further, can you provide a proclamation from the magisterium on the issue of modesty, swimming and swimwear?

I don’t follow. Separate the boys and girls when they swim? Who has to improvise and wear long shorts and shirt?

And what is the absolute truth from our Lord, the magisterium and the Bible about this issue?

Okay. Yep. I agree with what our Lord said. And He was talking about belief and faith in Him as the Son of God, Redeemer of mankind. I guess I don’t follow your thought pattern here.

I guess I’m lost as to why you bring this up to rossum and how this is relevant to the topic at hand.