How can we ever apologise for the Holocaust?

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… I’ll accept a single unequivocal quote condemning nazi atrocities against the Jews …
I go one better, here’s a quote from the Nazis themselves…

The day after the election of Pope Pius XII, the Nazi newspaper Berliner Morganpost stated: “the election of Cardinal Pacelli is not accepted with favor in Germany because he was always opposed to Nazism.” (March 3, 1939).

The New York Times (December 25, 1942) stated regarding Pius XII’s stance against the Nazis: ***“The voice of Pius XII is a lonely voice in the silence and darkness enveloping Europe this Christmas…He is about the only ruler left on the Continent of Europe who dares to raise his voice at all.” ***

A Nazi Gestapo report asserted regarding Pope Pius XII: : "in a manner never known before…the Pope has repudiated the National Socialist New European Order [Nazism]. It is true, the Pope does not refer to the National Socialists in Germany by name, but his speech is one long attack on everything we stand for. …Here he is clearly speaking on behalf of the Jews."

In September 1945, Dr. Joseph Nathan—who represented the Hebrew Commission—stated “Above all, we acknowledge the Supreme Pontiff and the religious men and women who, executing the directives of the Holy Father, recognized the persecuted as their brothers and, with great abnegation, hastened to help them, disregarding the terrible dangers to which they were exposed.”

In 1958, at the death of Pope Pius XII, Golda Meir sent the following message: “We share in the grief of humanity. …When fearful martyrdom came to our people, the voice of the Pope was raised for its victims. The life of our times was enriched by a voice speaking out about great moral truths above the tumult of daily conflict. We mourn a great servant of peace.”

See here: catholicleague.org/pius/nyt_editorials.htm

Pius XII, Vicar of Christ, Servant of God, pray for us.
 
anthony022071
Regular Member Join Date: April 8, 2007
Posts: 147
Re: How can we ever apologise for the Holocaust?
Quote:Originally Posted by Darrel
If I lived in England during the holocost and I wanted it to end … what could I do to stop it? It took the destruction of Nazi Germany to stop it. Any lesser attempt would have been a suicide run and a waste of life.
Right now I know full well that a larger holocost is happening in the abortion clinics. I could go and take down a few abortionist tommorow before I get shot by the Police. Is this a good or holy act? How can I be forgiven for not stopping abortion… how can I ever appologise?
The entire infrastructure of abortion needs to be defeated just like Nazi Germany was.
Darrel,where did you get that quote by Cardinal Ratzinger?
Then quoting our great Pope his Holiness Benedict, I say AMEN 🙂
 
Originally by Nino)—
I found that the NYTImes published some 39 articles detailing the Vaticans outrage at the Nazis treatment of Jews and others…from 1939 to 1945…
—End Quote—
AMEN 👍
 
You’ve got to get kidding? You are comparing Jewish migration to Israel to Nazism? You are so out of line. The Jews do care and educate Palestinians who are open to it. They treat them in their hospitals. The Arabs are the ones who turned things nasty there. Read the book Exodus for a good history of the Jews. No the Jews are not saints, but they aren’t Nazis. If they were, why is the Arab population growing faster than the Jewish population there?
Zionism as a philosophy is in no way different from National Socialism. And it’s hardly out of line to compare one group that conquered and occupied land that didn’t belong to them (the Nazis) with another group that did the same thing, the Jews. The Jews also deny basic rights to Muslims, who are in Israel second class citizens. And it’s very very very stupid to act surprised that the Muslims reacted badly when yet another foreign power came in and occupied them. Tell me, when in history have people not reacted against foreign occupation?
The Arabs have more children and the Jews are abandoning Israel at a very high rate, thus proving my point.
People throw out that Nazi accusation rather cavalierly I think. The Nazis systematically exterminated 12 million people in gas chambers and were responsible for starting a war that took 50 million lives, including 20 million Russians alone.
Yeah, the Nazis are the only ones in history that ever committed an atrocity or started a war. If it wasn’t for the Nazis we’d all be holding hands dancing around trees like the peaceful kittens people were before Hitler came and changed it all.
 
Israel represents approx. half of the world’s jewish population. That is not “a fairly small part…” To equate Zionism with Nazism is one of the worse sorts of anti-semetism. You can lable this whining if you choose, but such a statement is disgusting, untrue, unfair, but not unexpected.
How, pray tell, is Zionism significantly different from Nazism? Or is the promotion of the notion of racial separatism only unacceptable if Europeans are doing it? I’d love to see a source on the assertation that Israel contains half the world’s Jews. Considering they are abandoning it at a rate of 10 leaving for 1 entering it seems rather false on face.
First, anti-Semitism is wholelly inapporiate in this context. Most modern Jews decend from converts from the state of Khazar whose population converted en masse during the middle ages to avoid being asslimated by Christians to the north or Muslims to the south. They’re also highly mixed with various groups whom they’ve encountered and intermarried with. As a little fun historical fact as much as 1/3 of Hitler’s SA had Jewish girlfriends at the time the Nazis took power in 1933. Jews that actually do have a Semitic background appear very similiar to Arabs, and on are often mistreated. A very interesting sort of racism indeed.
It’s merely a sad state of affairs when people fail to realize that philosophies like Zionism and Nazism alike have a share in the world’s problems.
 
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CCM08:
How, pray tell, is Zionism significantly different from Nazism?
Read the Declaration on the creation of the State of Israel.
Read the lead up and and the resolutions of the UN Conference at Durban to which I referred earlier in this thread. The massive objections by nations to the falsity of your line of reasoning gives ample reponse to your rhetorical question.
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CCM08:
I’d love to see a source on the assertation that Israel contains half the world’s Jews.
Relevance?
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CCM08:
Considering they are abandoning it at a rate of 10 leaving for 1 entering it seems rather false on face.
Oh and what might be the source for this statement?
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CCM08:
First, anti-Semitism is wholelly inapporiate in this context.
How about anti-Jewish then? Happy now?
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CCM08:
Most modern Jews decend from converts from the state of Khazar whose population converted en masse during the middle ages to avoid being asslimated by Christians to the north or Muslims to the south.
Relevance?
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CCM08:
They’re also highly mixed with various groups whom they’ve encountered and intermarried with.
Relevance?
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CCM08:
As a little fun historical fact as much as 1/3 of Hitler’s SA had Jewish girlfriends at the time the Nazis took power in 1933.
“Girlfriends”? That is an interesting euphemism. The whole situation sounds like a real party. :rolleyes:
Jews that actually do have a Semitic background appear very similiar to Arabs, and on are often mistreated.
Relevance?
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CCM08:
A very interesting sort of racism indeed.
Interesting to whom and meaning what exactly?
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CCM08:
It’s merely a sad state of affairs when people fail to realize that philosophies like Zionism and Nazism alike have a share in the world’s problems.
It’s a sadder state of affairs when people grasp at straws to promote an anti-Jewish agenda based on a faulty analogy and exactly nothing more but the need to stigmatize Jews for the purposes of making a land grab. Because that is what it is: a land grab.

The Jews have been on that land for far far longer than any one else. The so called Palestinian state has never actually existed and given the chaotic state of its governments: still doesn’t exist in any practical sense.
 
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CCM08:
Zionism as a philosophy is in no way different from National Socialism.
You don’t say how. Likely because you can’t say how.
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CCM08:
And it’s hardly out of line to compare one group that conquered and occupied land that didn’t belong to them (the Nazis) with another group that did the same thing, the Jews.
Faulty analogy. The Jews were there far longer than any other group of people. I have already posted evidence for this earlier in the thread. Evidently you chose to ignore that. Convenient.
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CCM08:
The Jews also deny basic rights to Muslims, who are in Israel second class citizens.
False. Muslims have risen to high positions in Israel, based on their excellence.
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CCM08:
And it’s very very very stupid to act surprised that the Muslims reacted badly when yet another foreign power came in and occupied them.
Stupid? Ah, so it gets personal. Why? Because its based on nothing. Palestinians weren’t there any more than they were in Jordan, Lebanon, Syria – all the other countries who give them far fewer rights than does Israel.
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CCM08:
Tell me, when in history have people not reacted against foreign occupation?
What is your point? Israel is not a foreign occupation.
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CCM08:
The Arabs have more children and the Jews are abandoning Israel at a very high rate, thus proving my point.
Your point is completely divorced from Arabs having children.
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CCM08:
Yeah, the Nazis are the only ones in history that ever committed an atrocity or started a war.
Evidently not. Look at the attacks on Israeli civilians.
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CCM08:
If it wasn’t for the Nazis we’d all be holding hands dancing around trees like the peaceful kittens people were before Hitler came and changed it all.
Really? How so?
 
I can’t directly reply to CCMO8 any longer, thanks to my ignore list. But I just wanted to post that according to the CIA worldfact book, there is no negative net immigration in Israel, meaning that there are not more people leaving than coming into the country. 76% of the population is Jewish. 16% is Muslim. About 23% is Arab.

This is not to say that there isn’t concern over the small number of Jews emmigrating into Israel. (I think last year there were only 25,000).
 
Read the Declaration on the creation of the State of Israel.
Read the lead up and and the resolutions of the UN Conference at Durban to which I referred earlier in this thread. The massive objections by nations to the falsity of your line of reasoning gives ample reponse to your rhetorical question
This has absolutely nothing to do with Zionism. Of course the UN didn’t allow the Mecham Bergan’s of the Zionist cause to lay down offical documents. The fact is the Jews had terrorist gangs in Palestein long before the Muslims did. Gangs that were cooperating directly with the Nazis no less. Yes, Zionism is a wonderful philosophical out look.
Relevance?
Well it would seem logical to any sane person that if people are dying for something the supposed group in need of protection doesn’t even want continuing the venture is highly illogical.
Oh and what might be the source for this statement??QUOTE]
Relevance?
How about anti-Jewish then? Happy now?
No, Israel has the world’s largest concentration of people that self identity as atheists. The term “Jew” refers to people that practice the religion of Judaism, it may have some cultural connections but cannot be tied to an ethnic group because Jews don’t represent a single ethnic group. Nor have they ever. There have been several periods in Jewish history in which large numbers of converts were assimilated, and they’ve gone through exclusive periods as well. Intermarriage has also long been an issue.
Relevance?
Quite simple, people like you seem to assert that the group we would identify today as Jews has some historical claim to Israel. The truth is most of these people are in no way decendants of Abraham, nor do they have any historical connection to the near east. Their ethnic origins lie in southwestern Asia.
“Girlfriends”? That is an interesting euphemism. The whole situation sounds like a real party. :rolleyes:
It tends to say a lot about the state of Jewish indentity in Germany during the 30’s that these women didn’t see any problem dating men in the SA. It’s not a euphemism, unless you’re ignorant of the fact that when two people are dating on a regular basis the female is referred as a “girlfriend” as it relates to modern courting?
Relevance?
You don’t understand the relevant nature of the fact that those Jews who actually are the decendants of Abraham are treated poorly in their own homeland? That’s quite pathetic.
Interesting to whom and meaning what exactly?
It’s interesting that for all the belly aching on this thread the fact that the only people in the Jewish camp that actually have a historical claim to Israel are treated terribly because their “brown” by their supposed Jewish brothers.
It’s a sadder state of affairs when people grasp at straws to promote an anti-Jewish agenda based on a faulty analogy and exactly nothing more but the need to stigmatize Jews for the purposes of making a land grab. Because that is what it is: a land grab.
1946 was a land grab, now we’re just cleaning up the mess. It’s a sad state affairs when people refuse to accept reason and pefer mythology and propaganda to it. It must be nice to live in this little “Jewish good guy” vs. “evil Arab bad guy” fanasty world. Most us realize that things are never that simplisitic.
The Jews have been on that land for far far longer than any one else. The so called Palestinian state has never actually existed and given the chaotic state of its governments: still doesn’t exist in any practical sense.
1.That’s a false statement. The vast majority of “Jews” in Israel are the decendants of converts that were never in Israel. Those same people mistreat the only Jews that actualy do have a historical connection t the land on the grounds of skin color. What an enlightend country that must be.

2.If you’re neighbor sits his fence on your property and you don’t do anything about it in 10 years the land legally becomes part of his title. The Arabic population has lived in Palestein (regardless of who was ruling it) for thousands of years, while the Jews abandon that chunk of real estate. They have every right to a state of their own, independant of Zionist rule. WIthout the recongition of this fact this decades long war will continue.
 
You don’t say how. Likely because you can’t say how.
These Jews (http://www.jewsnotzionists.org} seem to find Zionism quite incompable with their religion. I feel no great need to address the subject. If Zionism, a philosophy centered around racial separatism and ethnic homelands, is not wrong than we equally must recongize that any group with such a philosophy is not negative.
Faulty analogy. The Jews were there far longer than any other group of people. I have already posted evidence for this earlier in the thread. Evidently you chose to ignore that. Convenient.
Just as you seem to ignore the fact a very small part of modern Jews have any ethnic connection to Abraham or Israel. If they want a state in southwestern Asia you’d have a point. They don’t and as such nothing you’ve said on the matter is in any way vaild.
False. Muslims have risen to high positions in Israel, based on their excellence.
A few uncle toms have positions for apperances, that doesn’t address basic issues such as the inability of Arabs to serve in the military. If any other country did that they’d be racists.
Stupid? Ah, so it gets personal. Why? Because its based on nothing. Palestinians weren’t there any more than they were in Jordan, Lebanon, Syria – all the other countries who give them far fewer rights than does Israel.
Wow, that had absolutely nothing to do with the point. The brilliance continues.
What is your point? Israel is not a foreign occupation.
LMAO, obviously you’re a Zionist. THis discussion is pointless and fruitless. God bless and have a nice life.
 
A few uncle toms have positions for apperances… obviously you’re a Zionist.
Wow! Namecalling. And that is persuasive in what way exactly?

By the way, your posts evade the points made by other posters, do not further the discussion, but rather seem in all ways to singlemindedly promote your own agenda.

I gather by your desperate grasping at straws that you have nothing substantive to contribute to the discussion and that you feel you have some special status with respect to the forum rules?

I am not terribly stimulated by the weakness of your claims with respect to what actually happened in history; nor by your evasion of the historical points made by other posters. But hey, maybe if you say the same thing over and over and over again, it will be true. That’s how it works, isn’t it?
 
Chosen people, I suggest you stop with your anti-Pius XII rants and please check your sources. It just goes to show you how uneducated you are. Tell me, why would Pius hide Jews in Castel Gandolfo if he was a Nazi sympathizer? Tell me that.
Yes we all know how stupid the Jews are especially the ones who don’t agree with you.

I have asked you in my posts in the past not to make personal comments about my intelligence but to no avail.

I am disappointed that the forum moderators have yet to take action in this matter but you may rest assured from this point on I will bring it to their attention.

Its none of your business but since your so interested in my education, or lack of it, besides being fully bilingual I have over twenty years of formal education, am a graduate of one of the world’s leading universities (as well as other institutions of higher learning) with degrees and academic studies in the fields of law, Jewish history, the history of Zionism, political science and management studies.

Pope Pius xii deafening silence when Jews were being marched to the gas chambers is an affront not only to the survivors of the holocaust but also to the memory of the Catholic clergy, who unlike him, had the intestinal fortitude to speak out.

The Pope’s indifference to the mistreatment of Jews was often clear. In 1941, for example, after being asked by French Marshal Henri Philippe Petain if the Vatican would object to anti-Jewish laws, Pius XII answered that the church condemned racism, but did not repudiate every rule against the Jews.(16) When Petain’s French puppet government introduced “Jewish statutes,” the Vichy ambassador to the Holy See informed Petain that the Vatican did not consider the legislation in conflict with Catholic teachings, as long as they were carried out with “charity” and “justice.”(17)

In a September 1940 broadcast, the Vatican called its policy “neutrality,” but stated in the same broadcast that where morality was involved, no neutrality was possible.(18) This could only imply that mass murder was not a moral issue.

On September 8, 1943, the Nazis invaded Italy and, suddenly, the Vatican was the local authority. The Nazis gave the Jews 36 hours to come up with 50 kilograms of gold or else the Nazis would take 300 hostages. The Vatican was willing to loan 15 kilos, an offer that eventually proved unnecessary when the Jews obtained an extension for the delivery.(19)

Pius XII knew that Jewish deportations from Italy were impending. The Vatican even found out from SS First Lieutenant Kurt Gerstein the fate of those who were to be deported.(20) Publicly, the Pope stayed silent. Privately, Pius did instruct Catholic institutions to take in Jews. The Vatican itself hid 477 Jews and another 4,238 Jews were protected in Roman monasteries and convents.(21)

On October 16, the Nazis arrested 1,007 Roman Jews, the majority of whom were women and children. They were taken to Auschwitz, where 811 were gassed immediately. Of those sent to the concentration camp, 16 survived.(22)

source:jewishvirtuallibrary.org/…tism/pius.html

The fact is that Pius XII knew as early as 1942 (from a letter he had received from Kurt Gerstein, an SS officer, who had provided Zyklon B to gas inmates at concentration and death camps), that Hitler had initiated a final solution but the Pius still continued his silence.

As a former Vatican official, Father Martin Malachi, wrote in one of his books that Pius XII had the Gerstein report, and as a result, he told the German Ambassador to the Vatican, Baron Von Weizsaecker that, If such is true and if it continues, we will be forced to speak.

But it continued. And even as late as 1945, Pius XII never issued a word of condemnation. Officially his name is Pius XII, but as far as the Jews are concerned, he will be known as Pius the Silent"

SOURCE:wiesenthal.com/site/apps/…3162&ct=286444
 
September 10, 1998

His Holiness Pope John Paul II
Vatican City
00120 Vatican City State

Your Holiness:

I am writing to you about a very disturbing matter. There have been persistent reports that Your Holiness plans to canonize three of your papal predecessors including Pius XII. When this possibility was first raised in June 1992, I shared my grave concerns with Cardinal Cassidy, but unfortunately I must say those concerns have been all but ignored.

Under your papacy, great strides have been made by the Church in reaching out to the Jewish people - the Vaticans recognition of the State of Israel, the Churchs historic document on the Shoah, your visit to the Rome Synagogue and to the concentration camps. Jews around the world have admired your courage and saluted those gestures.

But I am afraid the sainthood of Pius XII will significantly detract from those accomplishments.

While it is normally not the practice of non-Catholics to comment on the worthiness of the Churchs candidates, Pope Pius XII must surely qualify as an exception to that rule. During his pontificate, the most horrific war known to mankind was fought, a war in which fifty million people lost their lives. During that war, the Nazis unleashed their diabolical plot to murder all the worlds Jews. Indeed, they succeeded in exterminating six million – one-third of the entire Jewish population. From the outset of the conflict to its conclusion, Pope Pius XII sat on the throne of St. Peter in stony silence, as the trains carrying millions of unsuspecting victims criss-crossed Europe en route to the gas chambers.

The overwhelming body of scholarly evidence from Jewish and non-Jewish sources including the released Vatican documents on the Second World War, shows that Pius XII was perhaps the best informed leader on what was really happening in Europe at the time. Yet, not once did the supreme Pontiff muster the courage to condemn the Nazis publicly.

Not once did the Pope lift his voice in unequivocal terms to protest the deportations and murder of the Jews, as the Archbishop of Ponlouse or the Bishop of Montauban did in France, or as Bishop Giuseppe Placido Nicolini did in Italy, or Father Bernard Lichtenberg did in Germany, or as Bishop Apor of Gyor did in Hungary, all placing themselves at much greater risk than Pope Pius XII.

In fact, when Hitler attacked the Soviet Union in June 1941, Pius XII was jubilant, knelt in prayer and said a novena for the total victory of the Fuehrers armies, a sentiment he was still invoking as late as 1943, even though that was tantamount to endorsing Hitlers entire extermination policy (given the fact, well-known in 1943 at the Vatican, that the Nazis followed up all their military campaigns by deporting and murdering all the Jews).

Some defenders of Pius XII often cite the following paragraph from his 1942 Christmas speech: This is a vow that mankind owes to the innumerable exiles whom the hurricane of war has torn from their homeland and scattered abroad. This is a vow that mankind owes to the hundreds of thousands of people who, though no fault of their own, and sometimes only on grounds of nationality or origin, are destined for death or slow deterioration…

This speech which the Church knows was received with great disappointment by President Roosevelt, Prime Minister Churchill and by the Poles, was found to be so ambiguous that The New York Times, in its December 25, 1942 edition used the headline Pope Assails Peril of Godless State in describing it. An examination of the captured German documents after the war reveal that it was never even noticed by the Nazis, much less interpreted as a Papal defense of the Jews.

Let us compare that ambiguity with the same Pius XIIs decisive denunciation of the euthanasia program against the infirm and mentally handicapped, which he refers to in his pastoral letter of June 1943: We see the bodily deformed, the insane and those suffering from hereditary disease, at times deprived of their lives, as though they were a useless burden to society. This procedure is hailed by some as a new discovery of human progress, and is something that is altogether justified by the common good. Yet what sane man does not recognize that this not only violates the natural and divine law written in the heart of every man, but flies in the face of every sensibility of civilized humanity? The blood of these victims, all the dearer to our redeemer, because deserving of greater pity, cries to G-d from the earth.
 
The distinction is quite obvious. By forcefully condemning euthanasia, the Pope could anticipate finding a responsive chord among the German people, but to publicly defend the Jews would be an act of courage that was beyond the capacity of Pope Pius XII.

Not only did the Popes silence extend to the Jews, but it even applied to Catholic Poland, as President Raczkiewicz wrote to Pius from London on January 2, 1943: In this tragic moment my people are struggling not only for their existence. . . They do not want revenge, but justice, they are not asking for material and diplomatic help. . . but they beg for a voice that points to the evil clearly and strongly and condemns those who are at the service of this evil."

But his voice was never heard.

The sad truth is that only at the end of 1943 and early 1944, when most of the Jews had already been murdered, and when it was abundantly clear to the entire world that Nazi Germany had lost the War, only then did Pius XII entertain the notion of saving Jews. (It was for his belated efforts in 1944 that Chief Rabbi Herzog, among others, would later thank him).

It is my firm belief that had Monsignor Angelo Giuseppe Roncalli (the future John XXIII) been Pope at the time or had Your Holiness been Pope then, the Vatican most certainly would have publicly and vigorously protested Adolf Hitlers policies!

Even senior Church officials such as Cardinal Tisserant knew the truth about Pius XII when he wrote: I am afraid that history may be obliged in time to come to blame the Holy See for a policy accommodating to its own advantage and little more…and that is extremely sad…above all when one has lived under Pius XI.

The successor to Cardinal Faulhaber, in Germany, Cardinal Julius Doepfner, in a sermon commemorating Pope Pius XII said: The retrospective judgment of history provides every ground for the view that Pius XII should have protested with greater firmness.

The heroic priest, Father Salvatore Rufino Niccacci who was among those who risked their lives to provide safe haven for 300 Jews in Assisi, wondered of Pius XII: Isnt his role as the spiritual leader of the Church more important than his role as politician or head of state?

I must say, Your Holiness, the Churchs insistence of moving ahead with Pius XIIs Beatification and Canonization, even in the lifetime of tens of thousands of Holocaust survivors who endured unspeakable suffering and witnessed his silence firsthand, is especially troubling. For the survivors of the Holocaust, Your Holiness, granting sainthood to Pius XII desecrates the memory of our ancestors and millions of martyrs, by allowing the world to think that a saint was enthroned nearby in Rome, while they were being taken to the crematoria without even an echo of a protest.

Undoubtedly, there were saints in those terrible years. But the historical record shows that Pope Pius XII was not one of them.

Respectfully,

Rabbi Marvin Hier
Dean

SOURCE:wiesenthal.com/site/apps/…4471&ct=287123
 
This is a weak argument, in my opinion.

Pius XII said little but acted properly. It is my understanding that during the war the monasteries, churches and other Catholic institutions were opened to receive as many refugees as possible.

What would public condemnation of the Nazis have accomplished that the combined Allied military forces were not already attempting? What could the Pope have added to the torrent of propaganda that was already pouring forth from the White House and Downing Street?

There are times when actions speak louder than words, and Pius XII’s actions were heard above the din of bombs and bullets.

Finally, in light of the rise of Communism and the enslavement of much of post-war Europe with the loss of untold millions of human lives and immeasurable human misery, I believe the case can be made that Communist Russia posed the greater threat to mankind than Nazi Germany. In light of the prophecies of Fatima, perhaps the pope had good reason to pray for Russia’s defeat at the hands of German military forces. This would have been the lesser of two evils…

Hope this helps. :tiphat:
 
… since your so interested in my education…
Evidently education isn’t your problem. Your singleminded, reckless attachment to a high-handed revisionist history of your own making, heedless of any inherent contradictions, is your problem. Pity.

Pius 12 helped the Jews. He was not silent. He was loud, bold, and persistent when everyone else was silent. Who the hek r u to oppose the decisions of greats like Golda Meir and others who recognized him as a Righteous One? Get over yourself, man.

This was an opportunity for some of you to learn, reach out, and gain some common ground. But you chose the same old same old. Shame on you! :tsktsk: I am hoping the thread will be closed even though its topic is very interesting and useful for the rest of us.
 
I was working at a Kinko’s store about 7 years ago, and I noticed a customer who looked like he was lost and needed help. I helped the old man, and basically did all his self-serve copying for him. He thanked me, and told me that I was a good man.

I told him that he was more than welcome and started to move along, but he grabbed my arm and said, “NO! You DO NOT understand! I tell you that you are a good man. You have a good soul!”

Well, here is this frail-looking old man grabbing my arm and raising his voice. I’m thinking, “oh, oh…” I got another crazy to deal with, and at the same time noticing the tatoo on his exposed forearm where the sleeve pulled back when he grabbed me. I’m looking right in his eyes, and he goes on, “I survived the Nazi death camps because I learned how to read men’s souls. I was just a boy, but I survived because I could SEE. I knew who were the good men, and who were to be avoided. There were many good men there who helped us. I see your soul now and you are a good man.”

What could I say? I was speechless. Here I was, a descendant of Germans who immigrated to the US after the War. And there he was, a Holocaust survivor, telling me that I was a good man right down to my soul. I felt shame and sorrow, mixed with gratitude for the words this man spoke. It was a redemptive moment for me. I know that I told him things, but I don’t remember what I said.
 
“I survived the Nazi death camps because I learned how to read men’s souls. I was just a boy, but I survived because I could SEE. I knew who were the good men, and who were to be avoided. There were many good men there who helped us. I see your soul now and you are a good man.”
Thank you God for all the good and often forgotten men and women who were good souls and who helped Jews to survive the atrocious conditions of WW2.
 
Matas posted:
was working at a Kinko’s store about 7 years ago, and I noticed a customer who looked like he was lost and needed help. I helped the old man, and basically did all his self-serve copying for him. He thanked me, and told me that I was a good man.
I told him that he was more than welcome and started to move along, but he grabbed my arm and said, “NO! You DO NOT understand! I tell you that you are a good man. You have a good soul!”
Well, here is this frail-looking old man grabbing my arm and raising his voice. I’m thinking, “oh, oh…” I got another crazy to deal with, and at the same time noticing the tatoo on his exposed forearm where the sleeve pulled back when he grabbed me. I’m looking right in his eyes, and he goes on, “I survived the Nazi death camps because I learned how to read men’s souls. I was just a boy, but I survived because I could SEE. I knew who were the good men, and who were to be avoided. There were many good men there who helped us. I see your soul now and you are a good man.”
What could I say? I was speechless. Here I was, a descendant of Germans who immigrated to the US after the War. And there he was, a Holocaust survivor, telling me that I was a good man right down to my soul. I felt shame and sorrow, mixed with gratitude for the words this man spoke. It was a redemptive moment for me. I know that I told him things, but I don’t remember what I said.
AMEN 👍
 
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