How Can We Know We Experience God?

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STT said:
What is the state of blessedness? An state that you have the meaning and know the truth?
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The state of blessedness is the final state God intends for us … to know him as fully as creatures can know their creator … but only if we are willing and not so arrogant as to deny that God even exists.

It is only because we believe God exists that we feel drawn to him even in the poverty of our intellect and imagination. He draws us to him that we may grow in him and in his embrace as any child gets to know its parent by being drawn to the embrace of the parent, while at the same time knowing very little because to know more requires that we give ourselves up to the experience of him. By not giving ourselves up to the experience of God we shut him out of our lives and out of all future getting to know him; and then of course we impatiently complain because he did not reveal himself to us entirely and all at once.
 
Charlemagne_III said:
The state of blessedness is the final state God intends for us … to know him as fully as creatures can know their creator … but only if we are willing and not so arrogant as to deny that God even exists.

It is only because we believe God exists that we feel drawn to him even in the poverty of our intellect and imagination. He draws us to him that we may grow in him and in his embrace as any child gets to know its parent by being drawn to the embrace of the parent, while at the same time knowing very little because to know more requires that we give ourselves up to the experience of him. By not giving ourselves up to the experience of God we shut him out of our lives and out of all future getting to know him; and then of course we impatiently complain because he did not reveal himself to us entirely and all at once.
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Well, you know God and then you know the truth. How about the meaning?
 
STT said:
I don’t think so. We cannot be cognitively open (there is no theory which can explain free will) to how we function because of free will.
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Not sure how that would even apply or relate to what I said, but in any case if God can cause us to “see” Him in the next life, He can do so now.
 
Perplexity said:
It’s reasonable to believe that things are as they appear to be unless and until one has good reason to think otherwise. So, if it appears that YHWH (or whomever) is present, then it’s reasonable to believe he is unless and until one has good reason to think otherwise. Note, mere questions such as “is this really YHWH?” do not constitute good reason to think it is not. Nor does the inability to answer such questions with little else than “it seems so.”
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This is a very good point. I also agree with you that Christians should not doubt their experiences of God unless there is good reason/evidence to doubt it. I’ll also add that neither should Christians accept that their experiences are 100% true unless they have very good evidence, like scientific evidence. My latter point does not mean that the validity must be questioned, but rather it just means that the experience is based on a certain quality of evidence, or a lack of good evidence which may be due to the limitations of obtaining it for these types of experiences. Different levels of evidence should yield different levels of certainty! Too often, many skeptics try to throw in alternative explanations and expect it to be considered on equal footing with the pro-supernatural explanation or claim, but it should not be considered that way unless there’s evidence that it applies. This type of skeptical reasoning can best be seen in debates (William Lane Craig or Justin Bass vs. Richard Carrier, etc) about Jesus’s resurrection and post-mortem appearances.
 
AgnosticBoy said:
I also agree with you that Christians should not doubt their experiences of God unless there is good reason/evidence to doubt it.
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It’s refreshing to hear that from a non-Christian, even qualified as it may be (correctly). Thanks. 👍
 
AgnosticBoy said:
This is a very good point. I also agree with you that Christians should not doubt their experiences of God unless there is good reason/evidence to doubt it. I’ll also add that neither should Christians accept that their experiences are 100% true unless they have very good evidence, like scientific evidence.
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The essence of agnosticism is doubt. So while you are full of doubts about any certainties, the one certainty you seem not to doubt is that scientific evidence is required to verify the experience of God. I’d like to know why you say that. I don’t know any scientists who believe that God is a subject of verification by science, which never declares metaphysics or theology to be its province of expertise.
 
Charlemagne_III said:
The essence of agnosticism is doubt. So while you are full of doubts about any certainties, the one certainty you seem not to doubt is that scientific evidence is required to verify the experience of God. I’d like to know why you say that. I don’t know any scientists who believe that God is a subject of verification by science, which never declares metaphysics or theology to be its province of expertise.
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There are different types of agnostics and I’m what you’d call a agnosticweak. I don’t doubt any and all certainty because I don’t assert that God is unknowable but only that we currently have no knowledge (based on reason/evidence) of his existence. With that said, I accept that the scientific process leads to knowledge because it tests and yields verifiable evidence for all to see. That’s not to say that it’s the absolute truth, but it’s the best we have.
Vonsalza said:
It’s refreshing to hear that from a non-Christian, even qualified as it may be (correctly). Thanks. 👍
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Thanks for the feedback 👍
 
Charlemagne_III said:
This thread is not intended for atheists and agnostics, since they have no experience of God and therefore cannot be said to have any material contribution to answer the thread other than to deny that God can be experienced at all, and perhaps to suggest that those who say they experience God are delusional.

So I ask this question mainly to Catholics and other Christians who have experienced God in one way or another. If God is supremely beyond our grasping until we are privileged with a Beatific Vision, how can we know that we know him. In short, what most convinces you that the God you experience is the true God?

chnetwork.org/story/why_i_am_a_catholic/

This could be a very short or a very long thread?
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We cant for sure.
God is not in any physical wonder nor in any feeling of euphoria as God can be within without us experiencing anything.
All we can do is trust in his Word … if we do His will that is as close to certainty as we can get in this life. Nobody said it was easy.
 
fhansen said:
Not sure how that would even apply or relate to what I said, but in any case if God can cause us to “see” Him in the next life, He can do so now.
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God dwells nowhere and has no form therefore the only thing that you can see is a image created by Him. Then the question related to this thread becomes relevant.
 
STT said:
I met many. They normally do’t say their name but they are able to give me an impression that I could recognize who is who. I met Jesus and Satan among those you know.
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Do you believe Satan is a god?
 
STT said:
God dwells nowhere and has no form therefore the only thing that you can see is a image created by Him. Then the question related to this thread becomes relevant.
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No, the vision of God is* knowledge*, to* know Him*. And this knowledge, or “vision” is given without the benefit of sight or any other kind of normal human perception that we’re familiar with. Any knowledge that He wishes to impart can be given this way in fact. The term used for this kind of experience is “intellectual vision”. The intellect is simply enlightened or informed about something it had no knowledge of before. Incomparably profound while practical in its results.
 
STT said:
I do. I met many of them.

😦
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Those aren’t God. More likely Satan and his evil spirits. When you experience God, it is never a bad experience. More like a profound peace, safety and love.
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
Those aren’t God. More likely Satan and his evil spirits. When you experience God, it is never a bad experience. More like a profound peace, safety and love.
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I would agree that when we encounter God it is not a bad experience.
 
fhansen said:
No, the vision of God is* knowledge*, to* know Him*. And this knowledge, or “vision” is given without the benefit of sight or any other kind of normal human perception that we’re familiar with. Any knowledge that He wishes to impart can be given this way in fact. The term used for this kind of experience is “intellectual vision”. The intellect is simply enlightened or informed about something it had no knowledge of before. Incomparably profound while practical in its results.
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I understand what do you mean with vision and agree with you. The question of this thread is however still valid since most of spiritual beings can create vision and give different and tense impressions.
 
If the finite is to experience the Infinite then such an experience must be by invitation and on common ground. The invitation is is His gift of faith; the common ground is His gift of charity.

Humans, “life aware of itself”, know themselves to be in the world but not of the world; partly divine, partly animal; partly infinite, partly finite. The contradictions and contingency of my existence cause me anxiety and create my need to find ever-higher forms of unity with the world, with others, and with my Creator. This impulse to understand the world, the Creator’s plan for me in this world, and to do so within a frame of reference that is always in the world, requires that I somehow make the Transcendent immanent; make God immanent in me.

Often, the action that provokes my experience of God is prayer. When I am anxious about the past or the future, I pray and think about the kingdom. Even though I am trapped in time, I can escape, if for just a while, by thinking about God’s being. I think of “I am Who Am” as the same timeless God of Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and me. In the kingdom, the future, like the past, is present to God’s mind. In God’s mind I am, have always been, and will always be present. When I see God as God sees me, it is in the present. Believing God loves me as I am now, I let go my worries about past sins or anxieties about the future, and I experience the kingdom, God’s peace.

But I also sense God wants a response. For the moment, eternity and time share a common dimension: now. In this moment the Transcendent is Immanent. All that I may have done in the past may be forgiven for God does not live in the past. All that I may do in the future is pointless for God does not live in the future. What I think and do now, this instant is all that is important to my salvation. Am I doing God’s will this instant? If I am, then the kingdom is come; imperfectly, perhaps, but it is surely upon me, it is “at hand.” While I cannot change the past nor direct the future, with the grace of the Holy Spirit, I can control this instant: I will to do God’s will. Peace comes upon me and my anxiety is replaced with affection.

My experience of God’s presence occurs whenever, prompted by God’s grace, I surrender my will, die to the world and am born to the kingdom of God. In his gospel, John tells us, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God” (3:3). I cannot will these experiences into existence nor can I yet sustain these moments of sublime rest. Regrettably, my affection wanes and I return to my anxieties. But I recall Jesus’ promise and with hopeful humility await his return, “Come to me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light” (Mat. 11:28-30).

I can only hope that what I profess to experience is more infused by the Spirit than by me. Such a condition would make the source of my bias divine, and we call such an inspired bias by its more familiar name—faith. Only a mystical wisdom can hope to wrap itself around Mystery. Mystical and theological wisdom, grounded in faith rather than experience, possess an intrinsic superiority to metaphysical wisdom. I am more certain of theological wisdom than metaphysical wisdom, and of mystical wisdom than theological wisdom. Faith, the fountain of mystical wisdom, is God’s gift through which we come to experience God.
 
o_mlly said:
If the finite is to experience the Infinite then such an experience must be by invitation and on common ground. The invitation is is His gift of faith; the common ground is His gift of charity.

Humans, “life aware of itself”, know themselves to be in the world but not of the world; partly divine, partly animal; partly infinite, partly finite. The contradictions and contingency of my existence cause me anxiety and create my need to find ever-higher forms of unity with the world, with others, and with my Creator. This impulse to understand the world, the Creator’s plan for me in this world, and to do so within a frame of reference that is always in the world, requires that I somehow make the Transcendent immanent; make God immanent in me.

Often, the action that provokes my experience of God is prayer. When I am anxious about the past or the future, I pray and think about the kingdom. Even though I am trapped in time, I can escape, if for just a while, by thinking about God’s being. I think of “I am Who Am” as the same timeless God of Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and me. In the kingdom, the future, like the past, is present to God’s mind. In God’s mind I am, have always been, and will always be present. When I see God as God sees me, it is in the present. Believing God loves me as I am now, I let go my worries about past sins or anxieties about the future, and I experience the kingdom, God’s peace.

But I also sense God wants a response. For the moment, eternity and time share a common dimension: now. In this moment the Transcendent is Immanent. All that I may have done in the past may be forgiven for God does not live in the past. All that I may do in the future is pointless for God does not live in the future. What I think and do now, this instant is all that is important to my salvation. Am I doing God’s will this instant? If I am, then the kingdom is come; imperfectly, perhaps, but it is surely upon me, it is “at hand.” While I cannot change the past nor direct the future, with the grace of the Holy Spirit, I can control this instant: I will to do God’s will. Peace comes upon me and my anxiety is replaced with affection.

My experience of God’s presence occurs whenever, prompted by God’s grace, I surrender my will, die to the world and am born to the kingdom of God. In his gospel, John tells us, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God” (3:3). I cannot will these experiences into existence nor can I yet sustain these moments of sublime rest. Regrettably, my affection wanes and I return to my anxieties. But I recall Jesus’ promise and with hopeful humility await his return, “Come to me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light” (Mat. 11:28-30).

I can only hope that what I profess to experience is more infused by the Spirit than by me. Such a condition would make the source of my bias divine, and we call such an inspired bias by its more familiar name—faith. Only a mystical wisdom can hope to wrap itself around Mystery. Mystical and theological wisdom, grounded in faith rather than experience, possess an intrinsic superiority to metaphysical wisdom. I am more certain of theological wisdom than metaphysical wisdom, and of mystical wisdom than theological wisdom. Faith, the fountain of mystical wisdom, is God’s gift through which we come to experience God.
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:clapping:
 
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