How can you be Catholic? Questioning of JWs

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PaulDupre said:
I don’t think you read 1KE’s answer carefully. He did not counsel you to give the JW links. He counseled you to read and study the information in those links yourself, so that you have the understanding that you need to answer in your own words.

And I agree that you should stick to the authority issue. Also, ask them why they dare to keep predicting the time of the end of the world in direct contradiction to the bible wherein Jesus says that no one but God the Father knows the appointed time. And why are they always wrong?

Paul
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From what I understand, JW’s have gotten away from those predictions. That occurred in 1995.

However, I do believe the concept and the signs of Revelation should be taught to the lay Catholic.

Correct if I’m wrong, but didn’t Pope Paul II have a revelation of his own re the end times?

I think Catholics need to be prepared to accept there could be a time during which they, too, will be persecuted for their faith. Knowledge of Scripture will help them with this.

One of the things I found interesting in the video “KNOCKING” was the witness who became a Witness strictly because of the witness that was given him in the Concentration Camps during WWII.

Yes, there were many Catholics who didn’t renounce their religion, but unless you go looking for them, attending Mass on Sundays is not going to bring knowledge of them to many Catholics. Sermons should be used to bring about knowledge to Catholics, not bore them to death.

One magazine I found helpful was Homelitic and Pastoral Review…a lot of the sermons posted in that magazine are excellent and give me faith that some priest somewhere is actually using the podium to teach how Catholics can apply Scripture in their everyday life.

One has to admit the ways the Church as tried to attract people to Mass (i.e., banjos, guitars, feel good music) is not and has not worked in the past. People want to know why they have to do something…not ‘just because’…and the best way to disseminate that infomation is through the local Catholic Priest who should be applying his sermon to the everyday life of a lay person.

Maggie
 
Maggie1951 said:
I truly believe that majority of the newer Witnesses believe they are worshipping the one God of us all.
Maggie
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what a wonderful reconversion story Maggie! Welcome Home Again. But you seem like a very nice lady and I worry you do give the JWs a little too much credit on this one point. They believe that only they worship the ‘right’ God and that the gods everyone else worships are Satan the Devil and his demons. I am pretty confident that if you press a JW for an answer they are not going to tell you we all worship the same God. This sets them apart from every other religion and is the basis for their existence–in their opinions. The only reason they associate with anyone of any other religion is to eventually convert them. They are repeatedly warned about taking too long on the soft-sell and getting tangled up in a relationship with an ‘unbeliever’.
We may consider their Jehovah to be the same as Our Father —but they never would.
Ravyn
 
Ravyn_Guiliani said:
what a wonderful reconversion story Maggie! Welcome Home Again. But you seem like a very nice lady and I worry you do give the JWs a little too much credit on this one point. They believe that only they worship the ‘right’ God and that the gods everyone else worships are Satan the Devil and his demons. I am pretty confident that if you press a JW for an answer they are not going to tell you we all worship the same God. This sets them apart from every other religion and is the basis for their existence–in their opinions. The only reason they associate with anyone of any other religion is to eventually convert them. They are repeatedly warned about taking too long on the soft-sell and getting tangled up in a relationship with an ‘unbeliever’.
We may consider their Jehovah to be the same as Our Father —but they never would.
Ravyn
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I don’t believe they think they have dibs on God. I believe they believe God sees them as the only TRUE religion, which I don’t believe.

I was getting something to eat here and I remembered a professor I had in college (after studying w/the Witnesses I attended college at the age of 50)…which in turn got me into Religious Studies at a Catholic College in MA. (for the most part, the professors were protestant…I’m not kidding)…but anyway…I remember one professor saying: If it were not for Martin Luther, Christianity would have died years ago"…

Well, I didn’t agree with that, but he got a laugh which is what he was after…kind of another punch at Catholism that he had to get in for some reason)…anyway…

I can assure you I’m a Catholic through and through for those who are questioning the fact, but I, like many, have not ‘practiced’ practicing. And, of course, I find myself attracted to the apologetics end of it.

Done for the night. Didn’t edit this to see if there were any corrections that needed to be made, but I’m sure y’all will correct me where you see I’m wrong. I need correcting sometimes 🙂

Again, just catching up. Honing in on my apologetics skills, which, at best, right now, are haphazard and need polishing. 😉

Goodnight.

Maggie
 
for JWs:

Prayer for Conversion of Sinners
Lord Jesus Christ,
most merciful Savior of the world,
we humbly beseech You,
by Your most Sacred Heart
that all the sheep who strayed out of Your fold
or who never obeyed your voice to come into it yet,
may in one day be converted to You,
the Shepherd and Bishop of their souls,
who lives and reigns with God the Father
in the unity of the Holy Spirit,
world without end.
Amen.

A PRAYER OF ATONEMENT
FOR NEGLECTING TO HONOR MARY.

Lord, forgive all reviling of Mary’s name!
We beseech Thee, hear us!

Lord, forgive all contempt of her Immaculate Conception!
We beseech Thee, hear us!

Lord, forgive all coldness in the honoring of Mary!
We beseech Thee, hear us!

Lord, forgive all contempt of Mary’s pictures!
We beseech Thee, hear us!

Lord, forgive all neglect of the Holy Rosary!
We beseech Thee, hear us!

Lord, forgive all indifference to Mary’s Motherly love!

Amen.
 
I would say that dosdog, post #8 above, has answered this JWs objections admirably. Well done !!

Jaypeeto4
 
1ke said:
If they are serious, they will be willing to discuss these questions one at a time, in depth.
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Hi
This is very reasonable and logical.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
 
Just don’t waste your time with JW people. The founder of JW was Russell - he and his team wrote their own version of the Bible. In court, he lied under oath, that he was a biblical scholar - when he could not speak or write Hebrew or Greek. He was a con man who took out national advertisements about creating miracle wheat and a host of other lies.
Whenever one of them encounters me ( and there are lots of them going around house to house) I ask them if they believe in the Trinity, and if they recognized Jesus to be God - they would tell you ’ No’ in a sheepish way. I tell them that I have nothing in common with them and wish them ’ Good day ’ and show them the door.
 
Ravyn_Guiliani said:
for JWs:

Prayer for Conversion of Sinners
Lord Jesus Christ,
most merciful Savior of the world,
we humbly beseech You,
by Your most Sacred Heart
that all the sheep who strayed out of Your fold
or who never obeyed your voice to come into it yet,
may in one day be converted to You,
the Shepherd and Bishop of their souls,
who lives and reigns with God the Father
in the unity of the Holy Spirit,
world without end.
Amen.

A PRAYER OF ATONEMENT
FOR NEGLECTING TO HONOR MARY.

Lord, forgive all reviling of Mary’s name!
We beseech Thee, hear us!

Lord, forgive all contempt of her Immaculate Conception!
We beseech Thee, hear us!

Lord, forgive all coldness in the honoring of Mary!
We beseech Thee, hear us!

Lord, forgive all contempt of Mary’s pictures!
We beseech Thee, hear us!

Lord, forgive all neglect of the Holy Rosary!
We beseech Thee, hear us!

Lord, forgive all indifference to Mary’s Motherly love!

Amen.
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Ravyn, this brought something to mind that I’ve wondered about: how do JW’s pray? Do they have any set prayers or is it all extemporaneous?
 
FCEGM said:
Ravyn, this brought something to mind that I’ve wondered about: how do JW’s pray? Do they have any set prayers or is it all extemporaneous?
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they do it all extemporaneously. they do not even repeat the Our Father, rather they say it is a ‘model’ to be used in formula-very legalistic they are!- (they call it The Model Prayer) but never repeating words. They are almost superstitious about that in fact. The closest thing to repeating any proscribed words might be reading the Psalms, but they do not offer them as prayers so much as use them to comfort themselves in times of trouble.
Ravyn
 
FCEGM said:
Ravyn, this brought something to mind that I’ve wondered about: how do JW’s pray? Do they have any set prayers or is it all extemporaneous?
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I’m not Ravyn, but I can answer this for you. They are unrehearsed, impromtu. They use the “Our Father” as an example prayer and they try to make up their own similar to it. They try to include what they did, are doing or will do so that Jehovah will guide them through things. They usually ask him for guidance and understanding, they thank him for his guidance and understanding…

An example would be:

“Jehovah God the Most High/All powerful, thank you for all that you have given us today, thank you for the wonderful day we’ve had. Please bless us and guide us in understanding what we have just learned today and help us use what we have learned to apply it to our daily lives and to our service to you. We ask this in the name our your beloved son Jesus Christ, Amen”.
 
Also, as Ravyn said, they do not use any prayers to repeat them. They are all against that, they think it’s merely repetitious prayer and believe them to be against the teachings of Christ.
 
i don’t see how JW’s can claim to be christians (much less “true christians”) when they don’t believe that Jesus was the son of God – at least not as we do. they believe he was a created being who was also the archangel Michael.

it used to drive me around the bend trying to comprehend how anyone could read the gospels and miss the whole point – that jesus is God. was holy scripture really that obtuse? the best answer i could arrive at was whenever they read Jesus identified as the “son of god” they interpreted that to mean God’s first and best creation (i.e. the archangel Michael). that is, in addition to altering the Bible, they’ve conditioned themselves to reading it in a certain way that conforms with their heretical beliefs.

(of course, there may be believers in OSAS and other non-catholic doctrines who would level that same charge at catholics.)

nevertheless, JW’s do object if you claim they aren’t christians. to me it seems they want to eat their cake and have it too.
 
The debate of whether Jehovah’s Witnesses can accurately be called Christians.

The average JW sincerely considers himself a Christian.
He or she believes that God sent Jesus Christ to this earth
through the virgin Mary. They believed he died as a sacrifice
for sin, specifically a “corresponding ransom” for the sin of Adam.

Thus, in some sense, and in the intentions of many of their hearts, they certainly INTEND to be Christians.

The problem is that they hold to a gross misunderstanding of the Biblical data concerning Jesus Christ and his nature as God as well as man. In this sense, they are technically not Christian because their fundamental view of Jesus Christ is heretical.
They hold this view because their founder, Charles Taze Russell, held this view and enshrined it in the Society’s teachings. Russell’s grave error was re-affirmed and taught to all JWs by the Society’s 2nd President, J.F. Rutherford, and then by Nathan Knorr, Frederick Franz, then Milton Henschel, and continues to be taught by the Society to this day. The average Jehovah’s Witness truly believes that The Watchtower Society or “The Society” has been directly appointed by God as His Sole Mouthpiece and Channel of Communication to Mankind on Earth Today. Thus they do not dare question the doctrines taught by The Society. I can tell you this much: If The Society were to embrace the doctrine of the Trinity in the next issue of The Watchtower, every Jehovah’s Witness on earth would embrace the Trinity too, no questions asked or very few questions asked.
That is how MUCH they trust “The Society.”
God bless,
Jaypeeto4
 
Jaypeeto4 said:
The average Jehovah’s Witness truly believes that The Watchtower Society or “The Society” has been directly appointed by God as His Sole Mouthpiece and Channel of Communication to Mankind on Earth Today. Thus they do not dare question the doctrines taught by The Society. I can tell you this much: If The Society were to embrace the doctrine of the Trinity in the next issue of The Watchtower, every Jehovah’s Witness on earth would embrace the Trinity too, no questions asked or very few questions asked.
That is how MUCH they trust “The Society.”
God bless,
Jaypeeto4
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This also being why they stopped celebrating birthdays, holidays and Christmas… also being why they believe that Jesus came back in 1914 invisibly and they are the only ones who know it. They predicted Armageddon 3 times, and they were wrong, now because the society says they “never made those claims”, all the JWs think this way too.

They are well known for cahnging their minds on what they teach. They used to believe in the Trinity in the beginning, they used to use the cross in the beginning, they don’t now because they say tehy interpreted the bible wrong… blah blah blah
 
they consider themselves the ONLY TRUE Christians–everyone else in Christendom is a false Christian. In fact “Christendom” is a bad word. I never knew it simply meant the realm of Christians in the world. It is like a curse to them. They spit it out like it is poison.
Ravyn
 
**Just don’t waste your time with JW people. **

As harshly as I speak of The Watchtower Society and the Jehovah’s Witness religion, I don’t agree with the sentiment expressed above. The members of the Jehovah’s Witnesses are God’s little children too, for whom Jesus Christ died to save them from sin and eternal damnation.

Unless we are very well catechized and good at apologetics, we should not debate them or engage them in dialogue ourselves.
It is perfectly fine for a knowledgable Catholic to engage them in dialogue, my point is that not all of us are called to be, or gifted as, apologists.

Also, I will bear witness to the JWs that they have a genuine ZEAL for God, but this true zeal of theirs is not tempered by accurate knowledge of God, and their zeal is hampered by the fact that they misunderstand key teachings of the Scriptures.

They do love God, the supreme being and our Creator, but because of misunderstanding the Scriptures they do not understand nor believe in the Triune nature of God and are blind to just HOW GLORIOUS Jesus Christ really is. They most certainly DO Venerate Jesus of Nazareth, but they don’t believe he is the Lord God, God the Son of God.

As Catholic Christians we have a moral obligation to pray for souls who are in error, as the JWs are. I am grateful that there were many Catholics praying for the conversion of JWs when I was a JW. Otherwise I might never have converted.

I suggest that each of us offer one rosary a month for the conversion and salvation of all of the Jehovah’s Witnesses,
sincere but misguided souls whom Jesus loves and wants to have come to an accurate knowledge of the truth about them.
If loves and longs for them to come home, we should too.

God bless,
Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
 
I suggest that each of us offer one rosary a month for the conversion and salvation of all of the Jehovah’s Witnesses,
sincere but misguided souls whom Jesus loves and wants to have come to an accurate knowledge of the truth about them.
If loves and longs for them to come home, we should too.
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Amen!

And if you would like to be included on our catholicxjw prayerchain email me at jschwehm@catholicxjw.com

I usually send out prayer intentions every month or so. We pray for people who are former JWs who are investigating the Catholic Church and for people who have left the Catholic Church and have become JWs.

Jeff S.
www.catholicxjw.com
 
Jaypeeto4 said:
The debate of whether Jehovah’s Witnesses can accurately be called Christians.
The average JW sincerely considers himself a Christian.
He or she believes that God sent Jesus Christ to this earth
through the virgin Mary. They believed he died as a sacrifice
for sin, specifically a “corresponding ransom” for the sin of Adam.
Thus, in some sense, and in the intentions of many of their hearts, they certainly INTEND to be Christians.
Click to expand...
Hi
If the JWs call themselves Christians, they should be accepted as such and those who have any objections to it they should strive hard to affect improvements in the WatchTower Society rather than to insist that they are not Christians, with reasons and logical arguments of course.
The real different as I understand is that the JWs have different attributes of GodAllahYHWH than the CatholicChristianGod, if that is resolved, only petty matters would remain.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.
 
They are not Christians and that fact cannot be reconciled with the True Catholic Church. The heresy they fall on is too great.
 
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