How can you be Democratic and also be Catholic?

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I agree. There is too much emphasis on wealth redistribution which is reminding me of what I am hearing from the Democratic socialists.

There is so much more to Catholic social teaching that is being left out. I agree with Catholic social teaching 100%, just not everyone’s interpretation of it.

It reminds me of this that keeps popping up on FB from the socialists:

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Hmm redistribute wealth so we can all enjoy luxurious leisure. Thought the colors were creepy. (google images of Stalin)

Anyhow what happened to working? The Church also teaches a man has a responsibility to work and earn a fair wage for the work he does.

It also teaches that taxing people for unjust laws, such as abortion or euthenasia, are wrong.
 
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How can you be Democratic and also be Catholic? Social Justice
Only if you prooftext St. Paul. But you will find nothing in the Catechism that says that.
I’m literally quoting from the Catechism

Catechism 2427
  • Human work proceeds directly from persons created in the image of God and called to prolong the work of creation by subduing the earth, both with and for one another. Hence work is a duty: "If any one will not work, let him not eat." Work honors the Creator’s gifts and the talents received from him. It can also be redemptive. By enduring the hardship of work in union with Jesus, the carpenter of Nazareth and the one crucified on Calvary, man collaborates in a certain fashion with the Son of God in his redemptive work. He shows himself to be a disciple of Christ by carrying the cross, daily, in the work he is called to accomplish. Work can be a means of sanctification and a way of animating earthly realities with the Spirit of Christ.*
2428

In work, the person exercises and fulfills in part the potential inscribed in his nature. The primordial value of labor stems from man himself, its author and its beneficiary. Work is for man, not man for work.

2429

Everyone should be able to draw from work the means of providing for his life and that of his family, and of serving the human community.

Everyone has the right of economic initiative; everyone should make legitimate use of his talents to contribute to the abundance that will benefit all and to harvest the just fruits of his labor. He should seek to observe regulations issued by legitimate authority for the sake of the common good.


Where do we see we should give something to someone for free? Again, I have already mentioned charity for those who can’t provide. But Universal Basic Income is not charity for those who can’t, it is giving ALL something, whether or not they have earned it.

(As a side note, I think my quotes have crossed over between posters, sorry for where the attributions for different posters have gotten skewed over. Leaf, I apologize as I think some of my comments should be addressed to you, and some to others which have gotten lost in the long thread.)

Also, UBI is not a common benefit. It takes from someone and gives to another where they willingly will not produce. Another word for this is THEFT, breaking the 7th Commandmant. This is no different than many people, from rich people who cheat on taxes(Democrats and Republicans alike in the US) (theft) to illegal immigrants who don’t pay taxes, yet use free health care and schooling (theft).

They all are sinning, as are the UBI people who take something for nothing when they should be working.
 
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Where do we see we should give something to someone for free?
Where do you see that something must not be given to someone for free? That is the real question. I am not arguing that government must give people free stuff. Others may have tried to make that point, but not me. I only claim that government may give people free stuff - such after Hurricane Katrina. Lots of people got free stuff and they did not have to work for it. And as has already been pointed out, people get free benefits from a library. There is no essential difference between the library giving everyone in town access to the Internet computers for free and government giving all children access to a hot lunch and giving all people in town a hot dinner. The free lunches in school are not just for those kids who can’t provide. It is for everyone. And the free access to the Internet computers at the library are not just for the destitute. They are for everyone - including successful businessmen. My wife used to work in a public library and she said the lawyers were some of the most frequent users of her reference research services. These people are already getting free stuff.
 
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What is appropriate? is 1%, 10%, 50%, 100%? You can not define what is appropriate.
That’s for the society to determine over time. Interesting to note that the countries where people report the greatest “happiness” (there is apparently some index for measuring this) are not countries with very low taxes. Various government provided services are quite highly valued.
If it could tax 100% and get away with it, it would do so.
What it would do is what finds most favour with the citizenry who vote. That may not ensure the ideal, but it’s a fairly effective control.
 
Where do we see we should give something to someone for free?
It happens all the time. If I am poor and don’t work, I receive unemployment benefits with no regard for the tax I’ve paid in the past. That’s for free. I can still use the public library and parks. For free.

With a view to the future, we should think about how society will operate as the need for “work” as we understand that today diminishes. It seems quite possible we just won’t require the volume of “workers” as we have in the past. But people will need income.
Basic Income is not charity for those who can’t, it is giving ALL something, whether or not they have earned it.
The meaning of “earned it” may change considerably in the future.
 
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The catechism needs to be shorter. You could take 100 “experts” on the catechism and no two of them would be able to understand it from front to back.
I do, unless you hold 100% as a standard. It is not that complicated a read. For those who do find it difficult, or have not read it through carefully, that is okay, as long as they understand that having an opinion about something the do not know makes little sense.
 
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How can you be Democratic and also be Catholic? Social Justice
Where do you see that something must not be given to someone for free? That is the real question. I am not arguing that government must give people free stuff. Others may have tried to make that point, but not me. I only claim that government may give people free stuff - such after Hurricane Katrina. Lots of people got free stuff and they did not have to work for it. And as has already been pointed out, people get free benefits from a library. There is no essential difference between the …
Okay, there are two points here. May vs. must and then how much.

I agree with you in general terms about may vs. must…I may have included you in my general statements.

I would suggest that IF a Universal Basic Income is given to all, then it becomes a must, which then includes giving to those who do not deserve it.

There is a separate argument for paying for services such as libraries as part of taxes, but that is a different topic for another day. Also there is the question of the government overly taxing people unfairly…it becomes a judgment issue then, on how much is too much.
 
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You are merely parroting right wing talking points and not actually discussing Church teaching. Have you read the bishops’ teachings on voting, or the Pope’s?
the church must be right-wing because the policies listed are not approved of by the church?

yes I did and I for one understand the proper meaning of proportionate reasoning, do you?
I think the fight against extended health coverage to the poor, the resistance to covering more of them, and the constant attempts to take what coverage exists away, are each sufficient evidence of this fact.
no, it isn’t, it isn’t as simple as what you typed

please document what federal programs were cut and not the media hype.
I guess everyone missed the point of the article I linked
state versus federal, you have very few pro-life Democrats in Congress
Just understand this is the Church’s teaching and understand that dissent from it is no different than dissenting from other Church teachings.
yet, you seem to be arguing against the church stand on SSM, etc. that I listed above
 
It happens all the time. If I am poor and don’t work, I receive unemployment benefits with no regard for the tax I’ve paid in the past. That’s for free. I can still use the public library and parks. For free.
These things may be free to you or free to you for a time but they are not completely free. Someone pays. Businesses pay unemployement tax so that unemployement can be paid out. FUTA - Federal Unemployment Tax Act. I can completely attest that unemployment can be a financial burden on small businesses, so while one is getting something free, another person is paying or might be hurting. I also know professional “unemployed” people.

Libraries also are not free. They cost the community considerably in taxes and donations.

The upkeep of parks costs the community money. Everyone in communities are not wealthy. Some find their taxes very burdensome.

So while people are using “free” services that our country offers, it is a good idea to remember that someone, somewhere is paying and not always the wealthy.

Man is meant to work and when able and can, he should. There are definitely circumstances when man is unable to work; sickness, age, disability, layoffs, Covid, etc but if he can, he should.

God made us to work and feel good about our work.
 
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I have no idea how anyone could be a Democrat and Catholic. By its very nature it is an oxymoron. Abortion is the killing of an unborn life, and this is completely forbidden by the Catechism and the Bible.
 
I would suggest that IF a Universal Basic Income is given to all, then it becomes a must, which then includes giving to those who do not deserve it.
It is not a must in the sense that any government must offer a basic income. But it is a must in the sense that after a government decides something, until that decision is changed, it does become a must. But this sense of “must” is not necessarily a bad thing. When government decides that cars will drive on the right side of the street, then it becomes a must that people must drive on the right side of the street. If society wants to change it they can always go through the legal channels and change it.

So if government decides to give everyone a UBI, and the five years later decides that it is not such a good idea, then can change it and not give anyone a UBI. Or they can decide to give everyone below a certain income level a UBI. I am not passing judgement on any of these choices. I am merely pointing out that choices like this exist. The decision on what works and what doesn’t is a pragmatic one and does not fall under the category of Catholic teaching, which leaves open many pragmatic issues where people of good will may differ.

The question of whether any UBI fundamentally violates Catholic teaching is the only question I want to discuss here. I say it does not. But before we get too deep into a debate about the general principle, let’s look at some example. (This is an old habit I learned when solving really tough math problems. Before attempting the general case, get familiar with some easier special cases.) One example I want to look at is Alaska. For quite a while the Alaskan North Slope oil development through the trans-Alaskan pipeline was so lucrative that the state government decided establish a fund that generated a dividend for every citizen of Alaska. The dividend fluctuates from about $400/year to a maximum of $3200 one year. It is not big enough to be called a UBI, but if the UBI violates Catholic teaching by giving money to people who might not deserve it, giving the Alaskan oil dividend of any size to people who may not deserve it also violates Catholic teaching. So let’s see if we can answer the question for this special case. Does the Alaskan oil dividend violate Catholic teaching? I don’t think so.
There is a separate argument for paying for services such as libraries as part of taxes, but that is a different topic for another day.
Why is it a different topic? Are the services provided by a library so fundamentally different than everyone using their UBI to pay for fiber optic Internet to the own homes? (In terms of violating Catholic teaching only).
Also there is the question of the government overly taxing people unfairly…it becomes a judgment issue then, on how much is too much.
That is true. Any pragmatic decision can be made badly, resulting in an unjust outcome.
 
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So while people are using “free” services that our country offers, it is a good idea to remember that someone, somewhere is paying and not always the wealthy.
That was not questioned. The fairness of how taxation is collected and public resources are employed are also important considerations.
Man is meant to work and when able and can, he should . There are definitely circumstances when man is unable to work; sickness, age, disability, layoffs, Covid, etc but if he can, he should.
By and large, that’s not questioned either. What will constitute work, or sufficient work, in the future may change. Technology may lead us to a place where there is simply not the need for the manpower required in the past. But people must have the resources to live and participate in society.
 
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That was not questioned. The fairness of how taxation is collected and public resources are employed are also important considerations.
My point is that someone somewhere pays a tax so someone can use a free resource, while the someone using that resource may not be paying a tax for said resource. It is part of the question regarding fairness in taxes. Many times when someone collects unemployment, a businesses unemployment tax may rise.
Technology may lead us to a place where there is simply not the need for the manpower required in the past.
You could be right. It would be a very unhealthy society if that is the case, though I have heard some say it could go the opposite way and we lose our technology and need manpower. Unfortunately our society would have a difficult time.

Nonetheless God made man to work.
 
That a Court was needed to arrive at that conclusion is why I take it to be not truly a right but a man-made edict.
You express a legal theory that is utterly foreign to me. Courts clarify man made edicts ( laws, constitution, precedents, etc.) by reconciling inconsistencies and safe guarding justice. It may be that the Court acted improperly by giving a new law, but it would be wrong to take Court action as normally producing new law.
How bizarre that it’s about privacy only till some point in time - birth? Month X? Prior to bump showing?
It is private as long as the mother breathes for the child. When the child breathes on his own, the private relationship has given way to a public one.
 
It is private as long as the mother breathes for the child. When the child breathes on his own, the private relationship has given way to a public one.
Is that the meaning of private? This too is I think an invention of man.
 
It is private as long as the mother breathes for the child.
When people are put on a respirator, do they lose the status of being a person, and all rights due? In other words, can the hospital decide to execute them, as a private matter, since they are breathing for him?
 
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Yes, I am 100% against those type of tax breaks. those stadium provide nothing but money to the owners.
And bring in a regular supply of customers for restaurants and other businesses in the area, and jobs for the people who build the stadium, and jobs for the people who sell concessions at the stadium, and a regular supply of customers for satellite parking facilities, and so on. Not everything is so simplistic as some would have us believe.

Look up the economic effects that building Nationals Park in DC had on a rather poor and depressed area of the city, totally aside from the actual ballpark itself.
 
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