How can you claim joseph smith was a prophet?

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Pahoran said:
I don’t understand the question.

The portion of Section 130 that you tried to dismiss because it wasn’t added to the Doctrine and Covenants until after his death, was dictated, by him, to his secretary (William Clayton, IIRC) to be recorded as a revelation.

That was, just incidentally, while he was alive.

The talk that is summarised or paraphrased – and NOT quoted – to say “fifty-six years” was, however not dictated by him to his secretary to be recorded as a revelation.

Therefore we, the Latter-day Saints, have an entirely objective method to determine which of the two statements was made by him while “speaking as a prophet.”

Which is not something I introduced into the discussion, incidentally.

What I said was that the revelation recorded in the Doctrine and Covenants is the authorised, canonical version of that revelation, and the only one that is binding upon the Latter-day Saints.

And anyone who tries to shove a second-hand account of something someone heard him say at a meeting down our throats is someone who clearly has no intention of discussing this question in good faith.

Not only will I not tell you what to say or how to say it, I will also promise never to be so arrogant, presumptuous, rude, malicious, spiteful, hateful and uncharitable as to tell you(!) what the statements of your(!) leaders mean.

Because I, you see, am prepared to discuss these things with you in good faith.

But, should I see you or anyone else failing to observe the rules of civil interfaith dialogue, I will point that out to you.

Will that do?

Regards,
Pahoran
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When you actually start discussing something, maybe you’ll have a point.
 
RebeccaJ said:
When you actually start discussing something, maybe you’ll have a point.
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But we were discussing something, Rebecca.

Doctrine and Covenants 130:
14 I was once praying very earnestly to know the time of the coming of the Son of Man, when I heard a voice repeat the following:
15 Joseph, my son, if thou livest until thou art eighty-five years old, thou shalt see the face of the Son of Man; therefore let this suffice, and trouble me no more on this matter.
16 I was left thus, without being able to decide whether this coming referred to the beginning of the millennium or to some previous appearing, or whether I should die and thus see his face.
17 I believe the coming of the Son of Man will not be any sooner than that time.

Since this is canonical LDS scripture, and is thus the normative standard for determining the doctrinal force of any statement; and since the alternative version, based upon a summary of what someone heard Joseph say at a meeting is not canonical LDS scripture; then it follows that it is not valid to assert that Joseph prophesied the Second Coming in 1890 or 1891.

Joseph dictated the above as a revelation; he did not in the case of the talk that others like to rely upon.

This criticism is thus answered.

And the roof has not fallen in; the world still rotates on its axis.

Life is good.

Regards,
Pahoran
 
Pahoran said:
But we were discussing something, Rebecca.

Doctrine and Covenants 130:
14 I was once praying very earnestly to know the time of the coming of the Son of Man, when I heard a voice repeat the following:
15 Joseph, my son, if thou livest until thou art eighty-five years old, thou shalt see the face of the Son of Man; therefore let this suffice, and trouble me no more on this matter.
16 I was left thus, without being able to decide whether this coming referred to the beginning of the millennium or to some previous appearing, or whether I should die and thus see his face.
17 I believe the coming of the Son of Man will not be any sooner than that time.

Since this is canonical LDS scripture, and is thus the normative standard for determining the doctrinal force of any statement; and since the alternative version, based upon a summary of what someone heard Joseph say at a meeting is not canonical LDS scripture; then it follows that it is not valid to assert that Joseph prophesied the Second Coming in 1890 or 1891.

Joseph dictated the above as a revelation; he did not in the case of the talk that others like to rely upon.

This criticism is thus answered.

And the roof has not fallen in; the world still rotates on its axis.

Life is good.

Regards,
Pahoran
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Lecturing and addressing complete strangers as though they are your enemy’s children does not equal discussing. I’ll leave you to your mean little world. :tiphat:
 
Pahoran said:
I have neither the time, the money or the inclination to just jump on a plane and fly off to Nahom (Nehhem) or Bountiful (Khor Kharfot) just because some Internet WUM likes to fling adolescent taunts at the people he despises.

Regards,
Pahoran
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He meant the BoM cities in the Americas. There are two Bountifuls mentioned in the BoM. One was in the Americas. Tell us where that one is. And he specifically challenged the LDS here to go to Zarahemla. There is only one Zarahemla in the BoM and it is in the Americas.

So where is it?
 
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