How can you have the Real Presence without Transubstantiation?

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StCsDavid:
So where in scripture did Christ say he was giving you this hidden stash of food to eat? The passage clearly says His food is to do the will of the one who sent Him. I don’t see anywhere at this point that He is offering you a slice of that pie.

Contrast that with the institution of the Eucharist where He says “this is my body, I give it up for you.” Take a gander at Mt 26 and Mk 14.

Yours in Christ
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Hi StCsDavid. BUT He does tellus the hidden stash of food. What was the Fathers will in Jesus life? If you read a little further in John 4;34-38.you will see that the spiritual food Jesus is talking about is bringing in the lost. That,s the purpose for His coming.It,s the same for us,to do the will of our Father.As christian,s let us also bring in the lost so that we may be like Christ.That,s His plan,He has no other. 😉 God Bless
 
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allhers:
Jesus said otherwise, and He was at the Last Supper, both Sacramentally (supernaturally) and in person (physically). …“unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man, you have no life in you.” Jesus said that and He also said…“My flesh is meat indeed.”…and “Take, eat, this is MY BODY”. We simply believe Him.
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Hi Allhers. Jesus also said He was the Living Water and anyone who drank from this water would never be thirsty again.(John4;10-14).What other drink do we need? Is the Living Water not enough. :confused: God Bless
 
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SPOKENWORD:
Hi Allhers. Jesus also said He was the Living Water and anyone who drank from this water would never be thirsty again.(John4;10-14).What other drink do we need? Is the Living Water not enough. :confused: God Bless
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SW, you are pulling passages all out of their context to make these statements.

Christ is not implying that “witnessing” is the food that He refers to. He shows this woman great love and compassion and that is the will of the Father. His call to the kingdom went out in every circumstance of His life, whether he preached or healed or cast out devils or fed a multitude.

The will of the Father is delineated clearly in Matthew 25:31-46, and the Good Samaritan story. A great many non-Catholics (in general) just choose to take the position that you have because (IMO & experience among them) “witnessing” (often without much charity, as many of us Catholics can attest) is the easiest path of all.

This is of course off -topic, so if you or any other n-C wish to further discuss it with me, feel free to copy and paste this post into the first post of a new thread and I’ll happily enter that discussion. (Perhaps PM me with the link?)

“Transsubstantiation” is a 50 cent term coined to help convey the Eucharistric concepts that have been believed by the church since the New Testament in John 6, all the last supper passages, and 1st Cor. 11:23-30 and are reflected in ECF letters like St. Ignatius of Antioch’s letter to the Smyrneans and many other ECF writings in the last 2,000 years.

The reality is scripturally there, and has only been denied in the last 500 years…but not by knowlegeable and faithful Catholics.
Pax vobiscum,
 
Church Militant:
SW, you are pulling passages all out of their context to make these statements.

Christ is not implying that “witnessing” is the food that He refers to. He shows this woman great love and compassion and that is the will of the Father. His call to the kingdom went out in every circumstance of His life, whether he preached or healed or cast out devils or fed a multitude.

The will of the Father is delineated clearly in Matthew 25:31-46, and the Good Samaritan story. A great many non-Catholics (in general) just choose to take the position that you have because (IMO & experience among them) “witnessing” (often without much charity, as many of us Catholics can attest) is the easiest path of all.

This is of course off -topic, so if you or any other n-C wish to further discuss it with me, feel free to copy and paste this post into the first post of a new thread and I’ll happily enter that discussion. (Perhaps PM me with the link?)

“Transsubstantiation” is a 50 cent term coined to help convey the Eucharistric concepts that have been believed by the church since the New Testament in John 6, all the last supper passages, and 1st Cor. 11:23-30 and are reflected in ECF letters like St. Ignatius of Antioch’s letter to the Smyrneans and many other ECF writings in the last 2,000 years.

The reality is scripturally there, and has only been denied in the last 500 years…but not by knowlegeable and faithful Catholics.
Pax vobiscum,
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Hi C.M. I believe you are misreading what I,m saying. The women at the well has nothing to do with what I,m talking about other than taking place at the well. The unknown Food that Christ is talking about is about saving the lost(spiritual harvest). I,m sorry we don,t agree. :confused: God Bless
 
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SPOKENWORD:
Hi StCsDavid. BUT He does tellus the hidden stash of food. What was the Fathers will in Jesus life? If you read a little further in John 4;34-38.you will see that the spiritual food Jesus is talking about is bringing in the lost. That,s the purpose for His coming.It,s the same for us,to do the will of our Father.As christian,s let us also bring in the lost so that we may be like Christ.That,s His plan,He has no other. 😉 God Bless
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I would say the Father’s will for Christ was for Him to sacrifice Himself to redeem our sins so we could have the opportunity for salvation. Without the Eucharist, Christ decreases to the level of every other prophet who told the Hebrew people to repent and return to God and was killed for His efforts. There’s much more to this story and it’s all scripturally based. Why would Paul warn folks not to receive if they were not in a state of grace? Why would Paul give instructions on the proper form and function (our first rubrics if you will) on the mass?

What’s more the consecration of the bread and wine was done for hundreds of years before the Church fathers assembled the books of the Bible. That’s revealed by our early Church fathers’ writings and even by historical writers.

For my own education, is this use of John 4 a key scripture that your denomination hangs its hat on to reveal Christ’s reason for coming to us incarnate? I only ask as I haven’t seen this interpretation used quite this way in the past.

The Lord be with you.
 
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StCsDavid:
I would say the Father’s will for Christ was for Him to sacrifice Himself to redeem our sins so we could have the opportunity for salvation. Without the Eucharist, Christ decreases to the level of every other prophet who told the Hebrew people to repent and return to God and was killed for His efforts. There’s much more to this story and it’s all scripturally based. Why would Paul warn folks not to receive if they were not in a state of grace? Why would Paul give instructions on the proper form and function (our first rubrics if you will) on the mass?

What’s more the consecration of the bread and wine was done for hundreds of years before the Church fathers assembled the books of the Bible. That’s revealed by our early Church fathers’ writings and even by historical writers.

For my own education, is this use of John 4 a key scripture that your denomination hangs its hat on to reveal Christ’s reason for coming to us incarnate? I only ask as I haven’t seen this interpretation used quite this way in the past.

The Lord be with you.
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Hi St.CsDavid, Thats the beauty of scripture that we do have the Holy Spirit who will teach us.We learn something new everyday. Did not Jesus say that He came to save the lost? The lost are doomed for hell,But Jesus is that bridge that saves us from hell.Thats why He came. What great Love the Father has for us giving up His Son so that we can be FREEEEE… 👍 God Bless
 
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SPOKENWORD:
Hi St.CsDavid, Thats the beauty of scripture that we do have the Holy Spirit who will teach us.We learn something new everyday. Did not Jesus say that He came to save the lost? The lost are doomed for hell,But Jesus is that bridge that saves us from hell.Thats why He came. What great Love the Father has for us giving up His Son so that we can be FREEEEE… 👍 God Bless
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I share your joy in our Savior…some day I hope you share in my joy of the full truth. As good as you think it is now, it only gets better when you join with Christ in the Eucharist. Take the next step.
 
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StCsDavid:
I share your joy in our Savior…some day I hope you share in my joy of the full truth. As good as you think it is now, it only gets better when you join with Christ in the Eucharist. Take the next step.
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Hi StCsDavid. Thanks be to God that we can share that joy. And YES we will be sharing that joy with the fulness of truth when we can again share that supper meal at the Lords banquet in heaven. What a feast its going to be.I,m excited!!! 👍 God Bless
 
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SPOKENWORD:
Hi StCsDavid. Thanks be to God that we can share that joy. And YES we will be sharing that joy with the fulness of truth when we can again share that supper meal at the Lords banquet in heaven. What a feast its going to be.I,m excited!!! 👍 God Bless
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No need to wait. Jesus is waiting for you here and now, in the Eucharist.
 
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Sherlock:
No need to wait. Jesus is waiting for you here and now, in the Eucharist.
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But the Lord is not ready for the Bride.No Bride ,No wedding Feast. 👍 God Bless
 
StCsDavid said:
(Eph. 5:25-33) You must have missed this. The bride has arrived. 🙂
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Hi StCsDavid, Please read verse 27. This hasn,t happened yet,but it will. It is a mystery. Oh well,Till we meet at the banquet in the New Jeruselem. 👍 God Bless
 
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SPOKENWORD:
Hi StCsDavid, Please read verse 27. This hasn,t happened yet,but it will. It is a mystery. Oh well,Till we meet at the banquet in the New Jeruselem. 👍 God Bless
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Ah, but read on my friend…verse 29 clearly is written in to speak of the present…not of the future. The bride had arrived when Paul wrote this. How do you explain that?
 
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SPOKENWORD:
Very easy,by stepping into His courtyard with praise ,thanksgiving and worship.Draw close to Him and He will draw close to you and bring you into that SECRET PLACE. 👍 God Bless
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YES!
“Where two or three are gathered in my name, I am with them”
Even all alone God is with you.–nicolo
 
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StCsDavid:
Ah, but read on my friend…verse 29 clearly is written in to speak of the present…not of the future. The bride had arrived when Paul wrote this. How do you explain that?
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👍 GOOD POINT!!! EXCELLENT EVEN!! 👍
 
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StCsDavid:
Ah, but read on my friend…verse 29 clearly is written in to speak of the present…not of the future. The bride had arrived when Paul wrote this. How do you explain that?
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If we read in the book of Revelation21;2.we will see ." I saw the Holy City,the New Jerusalem,coming down from heaven from God,prepared as a BRIDE beautifully dressed for Her husband. So you believe it has happened already. Sorry I disagree. :confused: God Bless
 
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SPOKENWORD:
If we read in the book of Revelation21;2.we will see ." I saw the Holy City,the New Jerusalem,coming down from heaven from God,prepared as a BRIDE beautifully dressed for Her husband. So you believe it has happened already. Sorry I disagree. :confused: God Bless
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As a matter of fact I do believe it has already happened. Please remember Revelation was written in highly symbolic language. A literal translation doesn’t work in this style of writing.

Let me challenge you a little, what is the mission of the Bride?
 
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StCsDavid:
As a matter of fact I do believe it has already happened. Please remember Revelation was written in highly symbolic language. A literal translation doesn’t work in this style of writing.

Let me challenge you a little, what is the mission of the Bride?
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So you believe we are living in the Holy City right now.?The mission here on earth is to bring in the lost. 😉 God Bless
 
As St Thomas Aquinas said “Truth Himself speaks truly or there’s nothing true.” Adore Te - Godhead Here in Hiding
 
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