How Can You Not Want To Be A Catholic After Seeing The Pope ?

[YADA]

If you can convince me Mary (1) was conceived without original sin (2) did not commit one sin during her entire lifetime (even during the terrible twos) then we can talk.

But you can’t…

No two year old [no matter how terrible - and personally I thought the threes were much harder ] can commit a sin …

One cannot commmit a personal sin until one can discern that an act is sinful, understand the consequences of that sin [seperatonfrom Gpd] and choose to sin anyway …

As for the conception without originl sin … not hard here … my God is so great and all powerfull that He can do what He wills, when He wills and with whom He wills …

that Mary would be concieved without the stain of original sin, thourgh the Power and Authority of God [Father - Son - Holy Spirit - the Alpha and the Omega] is not hard to believe … especially as the Ark of the Hebrews that carried the Staff of the High Priest Aaron, the Manna from Heaven and the tablets upon which the Law was written was directed to be contructed to exact specifications by God Himself … and was not to be touched by human hands, even those who touched it with respct, love and in order to protect it … CONTRAST that ARK with Mary …

Mary, the Ark of the New Covenant … the woman who was Highly favored by God, Overshadowed by the Holy Spirit, Mary who said “Yes” to God and not only Yes but Yes according to the Works of th All Mighty Lord of Lords and King of Kings …Mary - who carried the Word Made Flesh [God Incarnate], the Highest Priest and the TRUE Bread that came down from Heaven …

Won’t change your mind but I believe… My God is an Awesome God … All Knowing, Who Was, Who Is and Who is to Come, and All Powereful …

Sin as a 2 year old …

 

[DCD]

Just for the record two year olds do not have the capacity to commit actual sin.

Peace,
DCD

 

[DCD]

Peter would never have gone for the display of adoration given the present Pope.
But to speak about the Pope himself, I did not watch much news in the last week or so, saw a couple of clips of adoring people. I heard he apologized some and called people on the carpet about abuse. I am rather neutral on the man himself. Not that interested in general.

Really?

Acts 5:14-16

Peace,
DCD

 

[swariffin]

How can one not want to be Catholic after witnessing the pope’s visit all this week? This humble and holy man, an Apostle of Peace, who went out of his routine to speak with abuse victims, who was invited to the Jewish synagogue where they treated him very well.
A man who is invited to Ground Zero to pray, (I don’t remember any non-Catholic pastors or people being invited) where it was televised for all the world to see. A man who gathers thousands in his presence by the blink of an eye.
Benedict the XVI is the successor of St. Peter, the Vicar of Christ on earth. After seeing His holiness, why would you want to be anything else? Isn’t that what it’s all about?
Thank you Jesus for the Holy Catholic church.

Thank you my Lord Jesus, because it is You Yourself who called me into the Catholic Church, not Your servant. But, I do learn a lot about You, Jesus, through such servant You appointed to me. And I do believe that the teaching of Your servant is indeed rooted from You and it is infallible.

 

[Curious]

I never understood the opposition to the way the Pope dresses and how much money he may or may not have. The man has a lot of work to do - who cares if there’s pagentry? I think it’s fun.

 

[Crepusculum]

Mary was not perfect. There is only one perfect person and that is Jesus. He is the only person that did not sin. He was the perfect man. I don’t remember what verse it was but it says something to the effect of “for all have sinned and all fall short” and “it is through Christ alone that makes us perfect” I know I may be misquoting but its close. I will look it up when I get home.

I believe you’re looking for Romans 3:23 - it refers to the righteousness accorded to anyone who follows the law and does not have faith in Christ and in the context of that I say amen. However it cannot possibly mean that absolutely no-one is righteous, or what are we to make of Ecclesiastes 7:15 “In this meaningless life of mine I have seen both of these: a righteous man perishing in his righteousness, and a wicked man living long in his wickedness.” and other such passages that refer to people being righteous (Job, for e.g.) You may also be thinking of Romans 3:9-12 in which Paul quotes the old testament (Psalm 14 and Psalm 53 which both refer to those who say “There is no God”, and Ecclesiastes 7:20, which is essentially a consolation for all who have recently sinned, to remember they are not alone. Was it intended literally? That is up to your interpretation, but not made explicit in the text).

Now I ask you what you make of Genesis 3:15 when God says he will put enmity between you (Satan, the serpent) and the woman, and between her seed and your seed. This is the one time in scripture that the seed of the woman is referred to, not the man’s seed - why? The seed of the “woman” (Jesus frequently refers to Mary by this name) is not the seed of any man. If God said He will put enmity between Mary and Satan, wouldn’t her sin put her in alliance with Satan?

I agree with you that we are not righteous by our own power, that we are made righteous by God through Jesus. The same applies to the righteousness of Mary - she is made righteous by Christ. How is it that you can make a positive statement that she “was not perfect”? You may believe that Mary was made righteous from the annunciation onwards when she had belief in Jesus just prior to His conception. That is your choice to interpret, but again not made explicit in the text.

Lastly, and I stress that this is my own musing - not a direct teaching of the Church as far as I’m aware, the biological implications of the concept of Jesus being both perfect God and perfect man. Jesus got his X chromosome from His mother, and his Y chromosome by the power of the holy spirit. The Y chromosome is smaller and only contains gender determining genes, while the X chromosome contains a lot more information. The implication? If Mary was physically or behaviourally imperfect, Jesus would have inherited her imperfection.

---

References

21 But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement,[a]
through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

1 The fool [a]
says in his heart,
“There is no God.”
They are corrupt, their deeds are vile;
there is no one who does good.

2 The LORD looks down from heaven
on the sons of men
to see if there are any who understand,
any who seek God.

3 All have turned aside,
they have together become corrupt;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.

1 The fool says in his heart,
“There is no God.”
They are corrupt, and their ways are vile;
there is no one who does good.

2 God looks down from heaven
on the sons of men
to see if there are any who understand,
any who seek God.

3 Everyone has turned away,
they have together become corrupt;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.

Ecc 7:20:

There is not a righteous man on earth who does what is right and never sins.

15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring [a] and hers;
he will crush ** your head,
and you will strike his heel."**

15

In this meaningless life of mine I have seen both of these:
a righteous man perishing in his righteousness,
and a wicked man living long in his wickedness.

16 Do not be overrighteous,
neither be overwise—
why destroy yourself?

17 Do not be overwicked,
and do not be a fool—
why die before your time?

18 It is good to grasp the one
and not let go of the other.
The man who fears God will avoid all extremes .

 

[notself]

How can one not want to be Catholic after witnessing the pope’s visit all this week? This humble and holy man, an Apostle of Peace, who went out of his routine to speak with abuse victims, who was invited to the Jewish synagogue where they treated him very well.
A man who is invited to Ground Zero to pray, (I don’t remember any non-Catholic pastors or people being invited) where it was televised for all the world to see. A man who gathers thousands in his presence by the blink of an eye.
Benedict the XVI is the successor of St. Peter, the Vicar of Christ on earth. After seeing His holiness, why would you want to be anything else? Isn’t that what it’s all about?
Thank you Jesus for the Holy Catholic church.

I thought I would bring the thread back to the OP.

My response is

How can you not want to be a Buddhist after seeing the Dalai Lama call for peace in Tibet? How can you not want to be a Buddhist after seeing the monks of Myanmar (Burma) peacefully protesting against a tyrant and being beaten and killed by the police?

Just some thoughts.

 

[Carolinagirl411]

Before I became Catholic I was always a little uncomfortable where the Pope was concerned…now I’ve gotten used to it. The Catholic Church may seem “rich” but turns out they aren’t. They have money but it is used for ministries etc…and covering up the abuse scandal but I won’t get into that. The fact is they need the money to support their many charitable ministries…

I would, however, like to see a pope dressed in a more modest form, simple robes like many monks wear… I understand the symbolism behind it all, I really do, but for the people who don’t understand Catholicism it makes us look really showy and materialistic.

 

[Righteousone]

Doctrine.

Doctrine? the Catholic church has never changed it’s doctrine, but preserved it from day one. We have the only original text. The Reformers were the ones who changed it. If I were you, that would be the EXACT reason to WANT to be Catholic.

 

[Righteousone]

Even though I was baptized Catholic (never raised, belong to no church) seeing him makes me NEVER want to take catechism! He is seriously creepy to me. I had a lot of respect for the Late Pope. But there is just something about this current Pope that totally creeps me out.

And adding to the list of mortal sins excessive accumulation of wealth, this from the Vatican? It was amusing to me in a way.

And Oh yeah, what they said…“doctrine”. I just go straight to the source, talk to Jesus myself every day, and confess to him. I think he is cool with that.

Even though I am not into organized religion I have no problem with others being part of it. To each his own.

Well Auriel, you can just go to Jesus and confess because that is what YOU want. That is not what JESUS wants. And furthermore if Protestants were into the HISTORY of the Catholic church, you’d know they are rich IN ART AND SCULPTURES DATING BACK TO THE FIRST CENTURY. There are no sins due to the vatican’s “wealth” as you put it. I am happy that the successor’s to St. Peter don’t have a shack for his burial place. Others have built the vatican and everything else surrounding it like Michaelangelo, Constantine etc…so I suggest you GET DEEP IN HISTORY OR CEASE TO BE PROTESTANT as JHN once said.

 

[Righteousone]

What I forgot to say though is that I do get him kudos for speaking to victims of Pedophile Priests. Being the victim of a pedophile minister I understand their pain, most want to sweep us under the rug, we remind them of things they would rather forget.

And what about the guy who stepped down being head of the Evangelical church? His pedophilia? It happens in every religion people, only people try to bring down the CC, but it will NEVER happen.
And all those school teachers who are molesting every day? Where is their stories?

 

[Righteousone]

Peter would never have gone for the display of adoration given the present Pope.
But to speak about the Pope himself, I did not watch much news in the last week or so, saw a couple of clips of adoring people. I heard he apologized some and called people on the carpet about abuse. I am rather neutral on the man himself. Not that interested in general.

None of this matters people, it doesn’t matter what the pope wears, it doesn’t matter what happened to the papacy over the centuries, it doesn’t matter if the pope wears Prada shoes (given to him as a gift, which they are made in Italy anyway), doesn’t matter the ‘wealth’ of it, what matters people is, the Catholic church has stood for 2,000 years through good and evil, guided by the [BHoly Spirit with an unbroken link from Jesus Christ handing over the keys to Peter up until now. That’s what matters.l**

 

[mchium]

“…I just go straight to the source, talk to Jesus myself every day, and confess to him. I think he is cool with that…”

If you do this, and spend enough time doing it, sooner or later He will tell you about the Church He established and for what purpose(s) He established it. Truth is another name for God and Jesus cannot but preach Truth…yesterday, today and tomorrow.

For those who object to the ‘wealth’ of the Vatican/Catholic Church and her glorious heritage of beauty throughout the ages: It is no secret that the most gifted artists, the most endowed benefactors, and the most faithful of means have always offered THE BEST to God…the first fruits, the most precious things to be found among mankind and upon the earth. Jesus’ life and lifestyle does not for a moment indicate that possessions are evil or that wealth is contrary to salvation - only the wrong use of those things. Offering these ‘best of our possessions’; using our ‘gold and silver and art’ to worship Almighty God is not only appropriate, but follows a tradition as old as the revelation of God.

It is mean spirited to deny God the most glorious and beautiful we can offer Him.

 

[mchium]

“Peter would never have gone for the display of adoration given the present Pope”

This is correct; because Peter knew he, himself, was not to be ‘adored’ or ‘worshiped’. However, he WOULD have taken these things on behalf of his Lord, I have no doubt. He WOULD have received them as heartfelt expressions of love of God. To Catholics, the Holy Father is the Vicar of Christ; His representative upon earth. What honor and felicitude (never worship!) we show the Holy Father is not (in the mind of Catholics) for HIM - not for the man, but is meant to honor Christ, our Head, and the Pope knows this and receives all in this way.

St Peter would have done - and did - the same. Those who clamored to ‘touch his garment’ (in order to be healed) outside the temple in Jerusalem were doing the same in their time. Both Peter AND the faithful knew to Whom they were oriented…no confusion, no problem, no issue.

 

[Good_Daughter]

As to why not be Catholic, the main reason is that I refuse to join a church that tells me I’m sinful for using birth control. I have a hard enough time managing 3 children and a dog without someone telling me I need to be open to more life.

Just for the record, faithful Catholics are not always required “to be open to more life” and may use birth control. Church teaching is against contraception. There is a difference. Some of the most safe and effective birth control available is also non-contraceptive.

 

[mchium]

“Why do you call him “holy”? “Holy Father” was used ONLY ONCE in the Bible by Jesus himself”

Your answer lies in the last two words above. The Pope knows; Catholics know that the MAN, Ratzinger, is NOT the one to whom they relate. (that’s why he has renounced even his name!)

All references, all titles, all behaviors towards him - everything - is to be seen and heard in reference to Whom he represents. This is the Catholic mindset. Ratzinger may be a nice man, I am sure…but we (Catholics) no longer relate to the man; we do not honor the MAN; nothing we say or do is directed at the MAN.

Everything; all things, now, are directed to him as the Vicar of Christ Jesus, on earth. What we do in honor and graciousness to him, we mean for our Lord…

If Catholic practice is not understood with a Catholic ‘mind’, it is often misunderstood.

 

[Carolinagirl411]

And what about the guy who stepped down being head of the Evangelical church? His pedophilia? It happens in every religion people, only people try to bring down the CC, but it will NEVER happen.
And all those school teachers who are molesting every day? Where is their stories?

If you looked at what Auriel said, they said they were molested by a MINISTER not a priest so they were agreeing that it happens in other religions as well and they were offering kudos to the pope. I understand your rant but you are making it look like you are ranting at Auriel. I just wanted to point it out just in case you didn’t mean to do that.

 

[Pinkyyy]

How can one not want to be Catholic after witnessing the pope’s visit all this week? This humble and holy man, an Apostle of Peace, who went out of his routine to speak with abuse victims, who was invited to the Jewish synagogue where they treated him very well.
A man who is invited to Ground Zero to pray, (I don’t remember any non-Catholic pastors or people being invited) where it was televised for all the world to see. A man who gathers thousands in his presence by the blink of an eye.
Benedict the XVI is the successor of St. Peter, the Vicar of Christ on earth. After seeing His holiness, why would you want to be anything else? Isn’t that what it’s all about?
Thank you Jesus for the Holy Catholic church.

People should join the religion they believe brings them closest to God - this should be their ultimate goal and what they base their decision of religion on. All religions have great men - the pope is one of the most religious persons on the planet but is not the only one and does not have more value than other religions persons - although he still is a great man IMO - my point is that there are others as well.

It could be argued the other way as well - look at Billy Grahm and all the good he has done - why wouldn’t Catholics want to chose his religion? That argument is absurd for Catholics to even entertain. Thus you may be able to see that the argument that they should be catholic b/c the pope is a great man is absurd for them as well. Many protestants do not hold the Pope in high as a regard as Catholics to - that’s not saying they do not hold him in some high regard though.

 

[MementoMori3283]

It could be argued the other way as well - look at Billy Grahm and all the good he has done - why wouldn’t Catholics want to chose his religion?

Because at the end of the day, all we would get is Billy Grahm. At the end of the day, in the Catholic Church, we receive Jesus.

 

[Contarini]

How can one not want to be Catholic after witnessing the pope’s visit all this week? This humble and holy man, an Apostle of Peace, who went out of his routine to speak with abuse victims, who was invited to the Jewish synagogue where they treated him very well.
A man who is invited to Ground Zero to pray, (I don’t remember any non-Catholic pastors or people being invited) where it was televised for all the world to see. A man who gathers thousands in his presence by the blink of an eye.
Benedict the XVI is the successor of St. Peter, the Vicar of Christ on earth. After seeing His holiness, why would you want to be anything else? Isn’t that what it’s all about?
Thank you Jesus for the Holy Catholic church.

Righteousone,

Pope Benedict does indeed make me want to become Catholic. Of course, my feelings about him don’t automatically resolve the actual issues on which I disagree with or am uncertain about Catholicism. Wanting is not enough.

I should also point out that some of the things you cite are not in and of themselves impressive. Gathering crowds and being honored by the rulers of this world is not a sign of godliness. It’s more likely to be the opposite. Or, as in this case, it may be simply irrelevant. I admire both Pope Benedict and his predecessor in spite of all the hoopla, not because of it. And I admire them in particular because they were/are quite willing to say and do things that bring them scorn and opposition both from the masses and from the elites of society. So you may want to rethink the specifics of your appeal.

Edwin