how Catholic women feel about no ordination of women

[jilly4ski]

savedbygrace71;12881037:

Okay… What you are missing is the fact that men get to be fathers and something else. A man can be a father and a famous lawyer, but the Catholic Church tells the women no… That they cannot be lawyers or doctors or businesswomen and any talents that they have are connect to their uterus. They aren’t individuals; they are special princesses who have mommy dust of compassion and tenderness that they sprinkle over humanity.

And there are two people involved in making the babies. I sure hope that daddies can change diapers and comfort and play with fussy babies. In fact, I think that daddies should be more involved. Sweden provides extensive paid baby leave and encourages fathers to take some of that time. In fact, it provides better incentives if daddies take family leave. So there is no reason to hand off baby to strangers, just advocate richer benefits. Oh and good luck getting a job after five years as a stay at home mommy.

The Church says no such thing, and I challenge you to provide a link or a cite to your assertion.

 

[sttcatherinefan]

sttcatherinefan;12881064:

WOW! Where does the church teach that women cant be lawyers doctors or businesswomen?

Pope Francis has hinted at his disdain for career women on numerous occasions. What exactly do you think that this means?

We cannot forget the irreplaceable role of women in the family. The qualities of gentleness, of particular sensitivity and tenderness, which is abundant in the female soul, represent not only a genuine force for the life of families, for the irradiation of a climate of peace and harmony, but also a reality without which the human vocation would be unfeasible.

world where women are marginalized is a sterile world, because women don’t just bear life but transmit to us the ability to see otherwise, they see things differently. They transmit to us the ability to understand the world with different eyes, to understand things with hearts that are more creative, more patient, more tender.

I think that the Church’s position is passive aggressive dislike of women who dare to have careers; we won’t condemn it but we will make them feel unworthy. It will surprise you to know that I am not a fan of Obama. I find him condescending. Ever time he is somewhere where he doesn’t want to be like the 2012 debates he puts on the condescending tone. I get that same vibe when Pope Francis speaks of women; I don’t think that he likes modern professional women and thinks that they are selfish and greedy. When I hear him speak, I hear the following… “Women can be mommies!!! They are special because mommies!!! and tenderness!!! and compassion!!! They should be treated as delicate princesses rather than dealing with the tough real world!!! So tender and special are these mommies!!!” It seems like Pope Francis views women as a sterilized Renaissance painting of Mary rather than real people living in the 21st century.

 

[sttcatherinefan]

sttcatherinefan;12881075:

Have the decency to answer the question which was posed to you first before you ask one of your own. None of the things you posted here explain whats wrong with vacuuming and changing diapers.

They are mindless, menial, and boring tasks. I didn’t spend years in school so that I could become Betty Draper.

 

[ignatius777]

ignatius777;12881072:

Pope Francis has hinted at his disdain for career women on numerous occasions. What exactly do you think that this means?

I think that the Church’s position is passive aggressive dislike of women who dare to have careers; we won’t condemn it but we will make them feel unworthy. It will surprise you to know that I am not a fan of Obama. I find him condescending. Ever time he is somewhere where he doesn’t want to be like the 2012 debates he puts on the condescending tone. I get that same vibe when Pope Francis speaks of women; I don’t think that he likes modern professional women and thinks that they are selfish and greedy. When I hear him speak, I hear the following… “Women can be mommies!!! They are special because mommies!!! and tenderness!!! and compassion!!! They should be treated as delicate princesses rather than dealing with the tough real world!!! So tender and special are these mommies!!!” It seems like Pope Francis views women as a sterilized Renaissance painting of Mary rather than real people living in the 21st century.

There is more happening with you than can be addressed here. I will pray for you

 

[ignatius777]

ignatius777;12881091:

They are mindless, menial, and boring tasks. I didn’t spend years in school so that I could become Betty Draper.

I am sorry you are a very angry person.

 

[sttcatherinefan]

sttcatherinefan;12881102:

There is more happening with you than can be addressed here. I will pray for you

How dare you make this about me… Please answer my question rather than making me into a psychological nutcase. Please stick to the topic. Don’t personally attack me. I’m tired of it when I bring up a point that I’m a crazy person with issues. Deal with it. There are people who disagree with you and who think that women are treated badly in the Church. Is there any way I can flag this poster? I am tired of the personal attacks.

 

[ignatius777]

ignatius777;12881111:

How dare you make this about me… Please answer my question rather than making me into a psychological nutcase. Please stick to the topic. Don’t personally attack me. I’m tired of it when I bring up a point that I’m a crazy person with issues. Deal with it. There are people who disagree with you and who think that women are treated badly in the Church. Is there any way I can flag this poster? I am tired of the personal attacks.

I am still awaiting an answer to the question I asked you first and clearly this is not the first time this has happened to you. I will no longer be responding to you as this is way beyond the topic of this thread. God bless you

 

[agapewolf]

ignatius777;12881091:

They are mindless, menial, and boring tasks. I didn’t spend years in school so that I could become Betty Draper.

And a priest has to perform mindless menial boring tasks as well.

You are compartmentalizing into the smallest pieces the bigger picture… giving birth, raising, and keeping a human being alive and getting them to heaven.

A trash collector, an accountant, a musician, a teacher, all have mindless tasks involved, but they are necessary puzzle piece to a bigger picture of helping the world go around.

I am single. I HATE mowing the lawn. simply hate it. I always feel that if I had a spouse (and hopefully kids), somehow, that task of mowing the lawn is a bigger purpose, because it is a part of my contribution to honoring the family, and therefore honoring God.

Read up on St. Therese, the Little Flower.

 

[jilly4ski]

ignatius777;12881091:

They are mindless, menial, and boring tasks. I didn’t spend years in school so that I could become Betty Draper.

And statements like this show an extreme deficit in understanding of the priesthood. And why most people who favor the “women priests” movement just don’t get it. Being a priest is filled with just as many menial tasks, sacrificing for the sake of another, as motherhood, and dare I say practicing as an attorney. (I am one after all). In fact when I change diapers and vacuum the floor I am giving of myself for the sake of my children and husband. The very definition of love given us to Christ. When the priest offers Mass after Mass, and then has to do a baptism, then mingle with parishioners, then go to a parish counsel meeting, then offer Benediction, and then work on his Monday morning daily Mass homily, without getting a sick call or some other call. They have given up sexual contact, marriage, companionship of a spouse, a family, and even the family they came from to care for their parishioners.

My job as a lawyer is filled with menial and horribly boring tasks (right now I am reading other peoples’ emails), but instead of doing these things as a sacrifice for another person, I am doing them for some faceless corporation or the government and the almighty paycheck.

Walk a mile in someone else’s shoes. I know that understanding another’s experiences often comes with age, experience, and often having someone you know experience it, but try. Your world view might shift some.

 

[ignatius777]

sttcatherinefan;12881110:

And statements like this show an extreme deficit in understanding of the priesthood. And why most people who favor the “women priests” movement just don’t get it. Being a priest is filled with just as many menial tasks, sacrificing for the sake of another, as motherhood, and dare I say practicing as an attorney. (I am one after all). In fact when I change diapers and vacuum the floor I am giving of myself for the sake of my children and husband. The very definition of love given us to Christ. When the priest offers Mass after Mass, and then has to do a baptism, then mingle with parishioners, then go to a parish counsel meeting, then offer Benediction, and then work on his Monday morning daily Mass homily, without getting a sick call or some other call. They have given up sexual contact, marriage, companionship of a spouse, a family, and even the family they came from to care for their parishioners.

My job as a lawyer is filled with menial and horribly boring tasks (right now I am reading other peoples’ emails), but instead of doing these things as a sacrifice for another person, I am doing them for some faceless corporation or the government and the almighty paycheck.

Walk a mile in someone else’s shoes. I know that understanding another’s experiences often comes with age, experience, and often having someone you know experience it, but try. Your world view might shift some.

I did not post those words

 

[LightBound]

Many Catholics who are supportive of restricting the priesthood also support traditional gender roles. This includes Pope Francis, who I believe thinks the only reason why middle class women have jobs is because they are greedy and selfish individuals. And wouldn’t they feel better if they became selfless mommies and housewives and made sandwiches, had ten kids, and sprinkled their special mommy dust full of compassion and tenderness and fluffiness all over humanity as special princesses in the tower protected by big strong men with real genius unlike the silly “feminine genius.” And then you can read this site that agrees with you on that…

I could care less about women being ordained but I do care quite a bit about the Church doing more to combat sexism and misogyny within the clergy and with making Church policy better to the laity.

That site is not from faithful Catholic source. It’s from some guy with a vision on what he thinks women should be, do, say, wear, be (un)educated, etc. It’s parallel with posting a link to some SSPX or sedevacantist site and saying "this is what Catholics believe about “______”. I understand your reasons for being concerned, but his views are not Catholic views. As you can see, he’s managed use some kind of mind control over those who follow him, since those who believe and follow his foolishness cannot be truly Catholic as his beliefs are not in line with Church teaching. I recall someone that lives in his city that’s a member here saying he had no legitimate ministry or apostolate in the diocese on a thread where his nonsense was brought up a few years back.

 

[sttcatherinefan]

sttcatherinefan;12881133:

I am still awaiting an answer to the question I asked you first and clearly this is not the first time this has happened to you. I will no longer be responding to you as this is way beyond the topic of this thread. God bless you

What question was that again? It wasn’t clear.

 

[sttcatherinefan]

sttcatherinefan;12881110:

And a priest has to perform mindless menial boring tasks as well.

You are compartmentalizing into the smallest pieces the bigger picture… giving birth, raising, and keeping a human being alive and getting them to heaven.

A trash collector, an accountant, a musician, a teacher, all have mindless tasks involved, but they are necessary puzzle piece to a bigger picture of helping the world go around.

I am single. I HATE mowing the lawn. simply hate it. I always feel that if I had a spouse (and hopefully kids), somehow, that task of mowing the lawn is a bigger purpose, because it is a part of my contribution to honoring the family, and therefore honoring God.

Read up on St. Therese, the Little Flower.

But a male tax collector, accountant, musician, teacher, etc. all get to choose the profession that help them and that is necessary with the “bigger” picture for God. I was good at math and smart as a child but was told that I couldn’t pursue those talents and that intelligence was a blip because my only role was to be a mommy and submissive housewife. Yes I could go to school and even work for a few years but my main duty was to catch a man, marry, and be a stay at home mommy. I couldn’t pursue any individual gifts and talents. I could be a flighty and awful housewife who couldn’t cook and clean and wasn’t good with kids, but because of my gender, that was my role in life.

And really the neatness of your lawn or cleanliness of your living room are first world concerns. The lawn is really about the association. I would just pay someone.

 

[sttcatherinefan]

sttcatherinefan;12881110:

And statements like this show an extreme deficit in understanding of the priesthood. And why most people who favor the “women priests” movement just don’t get it. Being a priest is filled with just as many menial tasks, sacrificing for the sake of another, as motherhood, and dare I say practicing as an attorney. (I am one after all). In fact when I change diapers and vacuum the floor I am giving of myself for the sake of my children and husband. The very definition of love given us to Christ. When the priest offers Mass after Mass, and then has to do a baptism, then mingle with parishioners, then go to a parish counsel meeting, then offer Benediction, and then work on his Monday morning daily Mass homily, without getting a sick call or some other call. They have given up sexual contact, marriage, companionship of a spouse, a family, and even the family they came from to care for their parishioners.

My job as a lawyer is filled with menial and horribly boring tasks (right now I am reading other peoples’ emails), but instead of doing these things as a sacrifice for another person, I am doing them for some faceless corporation or the government and the almighty paycheck.

Walk a mile in someone else’s shoes. I know that understanding another’s experiences often comes with age, experience, and often having someone you know experience it, but try. Your world view might shift some.

Yes… I have tried that, but I have had priests be mean to me and to people who I love. I’ve felt very detached from the Church because of it. Imagine going to a priest as a 12 year old victim of bullying and him telling her that it was all her fault that she was bullied. I don’t remember lots of walking around in people’s shoes going on there.

And everyone’s job has highs and lows; that is the nature of jobs. The issue is that men get to pick the job that suits them and women get to be mommies whether or not that job suits them.

 

[LightBound]

jilly4ski;12881148:

Yes… I have tried that, but I have had priests be mean to me and to people who I love. I’ve felt very detached from the Church because of it. Imagine going to a priest as a 12 year old victim of bullying and him telling her that it was all her fault that she was bullied. I don’t remember lots of walking around in people’s shoes going on there.

And everyone’s job has highs and lows; that is the nature of jobs. The issue is that men get to pick the job that suits them and women get to be mommies whether or not that job suits them.

Where do you live that in 2015 men are the only sex that gets to choose what job suits them? You’ve had a female attorney and the husband of a physician post on this thread…and those women are not young teens, so where do you get this idea that women can only be mommies? Not from authentic** Church teaching, that’s for sure. Most people on this forum familiar with my posts now that I’m one of those old lady feminists from the era where you could be a doctor or lawyer, but you were more likely to be a teacher or nurse, so I can understand a little of where you are coming from, but this isn’t 1956. I would advise you to stay away from pseudo-Catholic sites- the ones that might look Catholic, but instead is nothing more than a platform for some misguided and misogynistic man on a power trip to post his ideas on what women should do, say, think, wear, and be (un)educated. That’s not Catholicism, it’s someone with internet access and a website to promote his views.

I just noticed where you live…Chicago? Seriously??? I was thinking somewhere in the middle east by the way you were talking.

 

[jilly4ski]

And everyone’s job has highs and lows; that is the nature of jobs. The issue is that men get to pick the job that suits them and women get to be mommies whether or not that job suits them.

Again I challenge you to show me where the Church says this.

Because it doesn’t and you are building up a strawman just to strike it down, just to angry about something. Like I have mentioned, I am a mother and an attorney, and there is nothing written that my lifestyle is sinful.

 

[ProVobis]

So shut up ladies and get back to laundering the vestments and vacuuming the sacristy.

If you were to ever visit St. John Cantius, you would see the men doing all that plus fixing the roof, painting the walls, setting up the altar, etc.

 

[simpleas]

Yes the CCC. When I said Catholicism 101 I meant it in general terms like its a basic doctrine that all catholics should know. Hence my surprise that you thought men preachers were “outdated”.

It is outdated. When the church was first forming women really only had the roll of a wife and mother. Look at women today.

 

[simpleas]

Most certainly, and this particular one has been answered

Christ did not give the authority to ordain women to the Church.

It can no more be done that if the Pope issued an encyclical declaring that, from now on, the moon is now made of green cheese.

Christ gave the Pope and the Church quite a bit of authority in certain matters, turning women into priests, and moons into cheese are not among the powers given.

Christ gave the task to Peter to build his church, he didn’t give Peter an instruction book, with a list a authority rights. The message was one of serving. All are called to serve.

It’s not about “turn women into priests” like some sort of magical powers.

 

[TypesAndShadows]

agapewolf;12881140:

But a male tax collector, accountant, musician, teacher, etc. all get to choose the profession that help them and that is necessary with the “bigger” picture for God. I was good at math and smart as a child but was told that I couldn’t pursue those talents and that intelligence was a blip because my only role was to be a mommy and submissive housewife. Yes I could go to school and even work for a few years but my main duty was to catch a man, marry, and be a stay at home mommy. I couldn’t pursue any individual gifts and talents. I could be a flighty and awful housewife who couldn’t cook and clean and wasn’t good with kids, but because of my gender, that was my role in life.

And really the neatness of your lawn or cleanliness of your living room are first world concerns. The lawn is really about the association. I would just pay someone.

I am sorry that people said those things to you, and led you to believe that those were your only options. That is not Church teaching, and has never been Church teaching.

Did you ever have a book of saints? When I was a child, I had a book of saints who were girls and women. Very few of them were wives or mothers: they lived all kinds of lives, dependent on their gifts, talents, circumstances, and the will of God. They are just like male saints, in that regard.