My understanding was that protestants are not, by definition, heretics, but that our beliefs, where they differ from Catholic are heretical. Heretics, by definition, must have once been Catholic.
Jon
How Catholics View Non Denominational Christians? (Relationships)
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Jon
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JRKH
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This is why the Catechism says that we, “cannot charge with the sin of the separation (i.e. heresy) those who at present are born into these communities”…or by extension those who come to those communities from a non-christian position.
Peace
James
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commenter
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There actually are 2 questions here. Catholics “view” Non Denomational Christians as good people. Many may be holier than the Pope, or Mother Theresa, or (lots and lots) holier than me. But Catholics “view” the Catholic Church, itself, as holy. Even if every Catholic is wicked in a given year, or in a given place, the Catholic Church itself is holy. Even if people like me don’t always live up to the fullness of the truth, we have it, through the successors of Peter and the apostles. Every Protestant denomination started as non denominational. They all used the New Testament canon that was already put in place by authority of the Pope and bishops! In addition to the canon, they follow some Catholic Tradition, like the Trinity, but reject some doctrines. Non denominational churches today interpret the Bible following traditions, sometimes differ among themselves. I’m not holier than the average non denominational Christian, but I am holier than I would be if were not a Catholic. Best of luck to you, and your girl friend.
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PJM
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My friend; I’m not being “cute here” but there is a HUGE difference in:
“Christians not being Catholics” AND “Catholics BEING Christians.”
That difference is best explained as follows.
There is but One God [Triune}
because there is Only One God; that One God can logically [and theologically] have Only One set of Faith beliefs
Because of the two above described realities, and based even on OT traditions of One Chosen People: Lev. 19:2; There can be but the One Church which was founded, and exclusively given the mandate to teach the Faith; Mt. 28:16-20 following Mt. 16:15-19; and is protected by both the HS and Jesus Himself; Jn.14:16-17 filled in Jn.20:21-22 and John 17:15-19
Catholic cannot; absolutely cannot change anything we belief on all matters of Faith belief and Morals. WHY? because truth is a singular thing. One per teaching; and ONLY the CC has the fullness of God’s truths; because that was and continues to be God’s own Pwefect Will. So it’s a matter of trth and right. Not a matter of opinion. Fact’s suppoetable facts. And yes this can be proven biblically.
So were not hard headed; but we are gravely obligated to adhere to what Christ ordains.
God Bless you my friend,
pat/PJM
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TarkanAttila
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Precisely, James.
This is why the Catechism says that we, “cannot charge with the sin of the separation (i.e. heresy) those who at present are born into these communities”…or by extension those who come to those communities from a non-christian position.
Peace
James
By “formally”, I meant that Lutheranism as a theology, while respectable, is heretical. I did not mean that Lutherans per se are heretics just by following Lutheranism - unless they individually knew Catholicism was true, and then left.
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joe370
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Wow, such horrible advice…
It’s only normal for each person to want to marry someone who shares their beliefs, regardless of religion. Don’t give up; just try to talk to her and together, try to find ways to make it work, that is if you really love one another; true love doesn’t come around too often. If I were you I would never give up, if I was in love with her…
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Indifferently
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I am sorry. My previous posts were not intended to be disrespectful at all. I have a great deal of respect for the RC. religion. I am simply saying that if you marry an RC, you will likely lose your faith tradition in your family. That might not matter to you. The RC party will have to get a ‘dispensation’ (apparently this is God’s willl) to marry you, on condition that should the marriage bear fruit, that party has the responsibility to try to raise them in the RC Church. If that party fails to get that dispensation, then the RC Church (and therefore God?) will view your marriage as invalid.
As for the above user who talked of Protestant beliefs being heretical (and the standard replies) a careful reading would point to the fact he very deliberately used the term 'heresy follower to make sure he was not erroneously charging us with the sin of heresy.
As for the above user who talked of Protestant beliefs being heretical (and the standard replies) a careful reading would point to the fact he very deliberately used the term 'heresy follower to make sure he was not erroneously charging us with the sin of heresy.
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Reuben_J
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I just feel that the tone of your post is trying to ridicule Catholicism. You may not want to be disrespectful but your attitude shows otherwise. Bottom line is Catholics are allowed mixed marriage. Can’t say whether it is God’s will or not but it is certainly the will of the would be spouse since she is asking for it. She must try to bring up the children into the Catholic faith but whatever the outcome of that will have no bearing on the validity of the marriage. It is valid once the the dispensation is obtained.
How is it that the other party will lose his family tradition, whatever that means, since the mixed marriage is already approved by the Catholic Church, I am at a loss to understand.
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Indifferently
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Well, for me I don’t particularly care about these things. The worst thing a child can hvae is indifference as far as I am concerned. Much the worse has been the indifference of parents towards their faith, and the active anti-Christian campaign being waged by western governments. I don’t particularly care about what faith my children grow up in as long as they have a good taste of the Christian religion and the light it can bring to their lives. I would most certainly submit to a Roman Catholic woman on these matters, because to me it’s more a matter of the finer points of doctrine. In terms of morals the RC church is a good deal better than most.
However it is a bare fact that if an Anglican marries a Roman Catholic, it is much more likely they will bring the children up in the Roman Catholic Church (if they are both serious about their religion). It’s a one-or-the-other thing. I wouldn’t be able to pass on Common Prayer and that tradition to a child who was more familiar with Latin Vespers than with Evensong.
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JRKH
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I’m glad to hear this - because that is not what many of us got from your postings.
I have found that it is a good idea to read my comments from the viewpoint of the one receiving them before I hit the submit button. such a practice fits nicely with the idea of “do unto others…”, since if I would not wish to be addressed in a certain fashion then I should not address another in that fashion.
Within all of this is something very good…The idea that the Church takes these matters very seriously and it (hopefully) has the effect of causing the parties involved to seriously consider them as well.
And I am sure that you will agree with me that it is important that these things be considered very carefully.
Yes - it is important we are careful in how we express these matters. I did not feel that the term “heresy follower” was quite clear enough so I posted the link to the Catechism to provide additional clarification.
Peace
James
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Reuben_J
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There are Protestants who are serious about their faith too. The idea of the mixed marriage is so that each spouse can keep their faith respectively. As Catholics of course we want such marriage would be fruitful and the objective be fulfilled or even conversion of the other partner but that would be insincere when we talk about mixed marriage. However, only the couple themselves can determine what their future would be.
At this stage, we can only hope that the best solution for the OP and his girlfriend will be found if they intend to be serious with their relationship. True love bears all things, quoting St. Paul in his first letter to the Corinthians (Chapter 13). Again, in line with many of the advice here, hope the OP will go for it, go for your girl.
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JRKH
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Wow - I had to read this a couple of times ti make sure I got it right. At first it sounded like you were complaining about indifference but then saying you were indifferent…
But I think I got it figured out. You are NOT indifferent about a child being raised as a Christian, but you are not adamant about the particular faith tradition they are raised in.
Is that right?
Thank you for those kind words. The Church has indeed been firm and consistent in it’s teachings on matters of faith and morals. This is becoming a greater and greater draw for many people.
I am not familiar with the book of common prayer, “and that tradition”, but I am not sure why you could not share that with your child. Are there anti-Catholic things in there? Would the prayers themselves be considered heretical?
Color me confused here…
Oh- and by the way - few Catholics these days know much of anything about Latin - Vespers or otherwise…
Peace
James
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Reuben_J
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Indifferently has been saying ‘God’s will’ and ‘losing your faith tradition in your family’ the latter being 'Common Prayer and Evensong; and Latin Vespers. I wish I know something about Latin Vespers - learned a bit of Latin during childhood but Latin Vespers certainly have not been very much a part of Catholic tradition nowadays.Oh- and by the way - few Catholics these days know much of anything about Latin - Vespers or otherwise…
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JRKH
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Agreed. Here in the US there doesn’t seem to be much emphasis on these things. Though there is a seminary near where I live and they regularly have vespers open to the public and it IS beautiful.Indifferently has been saying ‘God’s will’ and ‘losing your faith tradition in your family’ the latter being 'Common Prayer and Evensong; and Latin Vespers. I wish I know something about Latin Vespers - learned a bit of Latin during childhood but Latin Vespers certainly have not been very much a part of Catholic tradition nowadays.
“Indifferently” is a member of the CofE which makes me think he might reside in England.
I wonder if the Catholic Church over there places more emphasis on these things as a counterpoint to the (liturgically similar) CofE…
Of course this might be sliding off topic a bit…
Peace
James
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paperwight66
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No, definitely not. If there’s a spare priest and a spare time-slot. an evening Mass is the norm, not Vespers.
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JRKH
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Thanks.
I hope our OP will check back in soon and let us know if we are being helpful…
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KingArt813
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The Church Militant! As our Blessed Lord said: “Father, may they all be one!”
K
Kal2012
Guest
Alex:
I’ve been married to my Catholic spouse for nearly 10 years. We eloped and that worked out well for us. There were various reasons why we didn’t have a church wedding, but one of the reasons was that it just wasn’t that important to us.
You need to be real honest about what you expect from your spouse in terms of practicing faith in the future.
My husband will NEVER, EVER, EVER worship in a protestant church with me. My situation’s a bit more complicated because he’s the non-practicing person in the relationship. Still, if I want him to go to church with me, then it’s going to be a Catholic Church. There is just no way a Catholic will seriously worship in a Protestant church for any length of time.
Before RCIA, I didn’t get that. I thought like you…a church is just a church like any other church on the block. Now that I’m going through it, I totally get the reasoning.
If you accept that the Catholic Church is really the church that was given to us by Jesus through St. Peter, then why would you accept anything less than the church that Jesus, himself, gave us?
Anyway…until we had our son, I was okay going just kind of floating around in my non-denominational Christian bubble and he was happy sleeping in on Sundays (and so was I actually!)
Now that my son’s around elementary school age, it’s very important to me that he’s educated in faith. It’s really not that important to my husband, so the responsibility is something that I need to take on.
In light of the dynamic, I finally checked out my parish’s RCIA class. I started going because my status and relationship with the Catholic church needs to be clarified.
If you are going to get into a mixed marriage, then you need to do it with your eyes wide open.
You need to realize that your spouse will not come to your church and worship with you or take communion with you because in Catholic eyes, Protestantism is just BS/‘faux’ religion.
They might show up out of love and respect for you or a special event, but if they are practicing Catholics, then they aren’t going to ditch their faith for yours. That’s just reality.
If you have kids and you raise them Catholic, you (as a Protestant) will not be able to share in the Eucharist with your kid because you are not in full communion with the Catholic Church.
Yes, there is respect because you are a Christian and are trying to live a Christian life, but Protestantism is different than Catholicism.
If your spouse-to-be is devoted to her faith, then she isn’t going to change her belief system for a man. She’s just being real with you.
Men come and go, but Jesus is forever
A mixed marriage is one thing, but a mixed marriage w/kids is an entirely other struggle! There are plenty of couples who navigate this successfully. Still, every couple has to find their own way and there isn’t a manual.
You are welcome to PM me and ask more questions if you want.
Jo
I’ve been married to my Catholic spouse for nearly 10 years. We eloped and that worked out well for us. There were various reasons why we didn’t have a church wedding, but one of the reasons was that it just wasn’t that important to us.
You need to be real honest about what you expect from your spouse in terms of practicing faith in the future.
My husband will NEVER, EVER, EVER worship in a protestant church with me. My situation’s a bit more complicated because he’s the non-practicing person in the relationship. Still, if I want him to go to church with me, then it’s going to be a Catholic Church. There is just no way a Catholic will seriously worship in a Protestant church for any length of time.
Before RCIA, I didn’t get that. I thought like you…a church is just a church like any other church on the block. Now that I’m going through it, I totally get the reasoning.
If you accept that the Catholic Church is really the church that was given to us by Jesus through St. Peter, then why would you accept anything less than the church that Jesus, himself, gave us?
Anyway…until we had our son, I was okay going just kind of floating around in my non-denominational Christian bubble and he was happy sleeping in on Sundays (and so was I actually!)
Now that my son’s around elementary school age, it’s very important to me that he’s educated in faith. It’s really not that important to my husband, so the responsibility is something that I need to take on.
In light of the dynamic, I finally checked out my parish’s RCIA class. I started going because my status and relationship with the Catholic church needs to be clarified.
If you are going to get into a mixed marriage, then you need to do it with your eyes wide open.
You need to realize that your spouse will not come to your church and worship with you or take communion with you because in Catholic eyes, Protestantism is just BS/‘faux’ religion.
They might show up out of love and respect for you or a special event, but if they are practicing Catholics, then they aren’t going to ditch their faith for yours. That’s just reality.
If you have kids and you raise them Catholic, you (as a Protestant) will not be able to share in the Eucharist with your kid because you are not in full communion with the Catholic Church.
Yes, there is respect because you are a Christian and are trying to live a Christian life, but Protestantism is different than Catholicism.
If your spouse-to-be is devoted to her faith, then she isn’t going to change her belief system for a man. She’s just being real with you.
Men come and go, but Jesus is forever
A mixed marriage is one thing, but a mixed marriage w/kids is an entirely other struggle! There are plenty of couples who navigate this successfully. Still, every couple has to find their own way and there isn’t a manual.
You are welcome to PM me and ask more questions if you want.
Jo
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