How come some priests don't want to celebrate EF?

[rlg94086]

Our priest told me he will offer the EF after he gets back from his hunting trip. I’m not sure how soon we will have it.

However, I have thought about it a lot. Our 11:30 Mass is OF with polyphony and chant. We chant the Gloria, Credo, Sanctus, Mysterium Fidei, Pater Noster and Agnus Dei. Everything else is in English. I like it, and I like the 3-year cycle of readings. We have the bells, but only have the smells on occasion. The only thing I would prefer different would be to have the priest ad orientum. If we didn’t have the EF, I would be okay with that.

Our pastor takes a simple, obedient approach. The Pope said teach the people common prayers in Latin, so he does it. After the MP Summorum Pontificum came out, people asked him for the EF, and he will offer it. Others don’t want it (and don’t like the Latin in the 11:30 Mass), so they will continue going to the other three Masses without Latin.

Sadly, not all priests take that approach. I don’t know if it’s an ego thing, reluctance to change, etc. I pray for our priests and bishops that we may move in the direction the Pope is taking us.

Pax,
Robert

Speaking from personal experience in dealing with the SSPX and CMRI, I know this is true. They are intent on shoving th EF down our throats whether we want it or not. This has turned me completely off in terms of the EF.

Also, in many parishes, if there is 10 to 20 who want the EF in a parish of a couple thousand inconvenience who do not want it.

As for myself, the parish I have been attending will be doing both one daily and one Sunday in the EF (There is enough demand to make it viable). The rest will be OF with plenty of Latin and ad orientum (I attend the Saturday eveing Mass which is OF).

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

They like the OF better.

Seriously, though, we’re going to get into an even more serious version of the “liturgy wars” if we don’t get all of the priests in the frame of mind to offer BOTH. IMHO, since both are forms of the same Mass (though I’m not certain that’s going to work out) according to the Holy Father, priests should be required to consent to offer both before they’re ordained. Otherwise, you’ve just got camps.

Then two points need to be addressed.

Having religious congregations that only follow one of the forms.

And

Seminaries have to start requiring Latin, which is not a standard that is held today. Where I will be going it is not required though I am pretty sure I will be using up some of my electives on Latin, which is a shame as there are many other classes I would love to take.

 

[ljprevo]

I hope and pray in all the debating and discussion about what to do and how to do it, that we as a whole do not forget about who is important here…
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.
.
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God!

 

[mercygate]

Really? Even ‘back in the day’ a priest would help an altar server who couldn’t quite remember the responses.

And, here in Detroit, the EF Mass has been said using only diocesan priests. They learn the rubrics of the Mass in a few practice sessions. I know, my ( N.O.) parish pastor is one who went through that program and has been celebrating the EF at our ‘indult’ parish.

Don’t sell our clergy short, they are intelligent, competent men. If a priest has an interest, and paid attention during Latin class in the seminary, they can learn the EF in relatively short order.

I’m not selling anybody short. I know priests who are eager to learn the EF and I know priests who are TERRIFIED of it and who absolutely HATE the idea of having to use Latin. Hate is almost too tender a word.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Then two points need to be addressed.

Having religious congregations that only follow one of the forms.

And

Seminaries have to start requiring Latin, which is not a standard that is held today. Where I will be going it is not required though I am pretty sure I will be using up some of my electives on Latin, which is a shame as there are many other classes I would love to take.

Yes, David, I realize that this is a tough thing, but I don’t think we should have religious orders that decline to offer the OF or Princes of the Church, like HE Cardinal Martini, who decline to offer the EF. If they are both true Masses of the Church, neither should be “snubbed” by any priest. I think that sends a very bad message, I think it’s going to increase the liturgy wars, and further divide the Church into camps.

This is why, though I love and reverence Pope Benedict, I don’t think this “two forms of the same rite” thing is going to work in the long run, despite his faith in the charity of his sheep. I think that we’re going to have to have ONE form of the one rite (I realize that they’re ARE already other forms, but they don’t really come into play in regular parish life) and, despite my love for the OF, I think it’s going to have to be the EF, because of it’s long, long years. I think a reasonable compromise, in the future, is for every parish to have what we now call the EF in completely Latin, then also completely in the vernacular and with some other minor reforms. Otherwise, this constant bickering is going to continue and the Holy Father will have been cheated out of his best hope anyway.

 

[joelacour]

JKirk—

I wonder if Gresham’s Law applies to the two Forms? What I THINK will happen is that in about 5-10 years we’ll have the Mass of Benedict XVI, which will have the best of both Forms combined into one Form that everyone agrees has the right amount solemnity, bibical reference, rubrics, etc.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

JKirk—

I wonder if Gresham’s Law applies to the two Forms? What I THINK will happen is that in about 5-10 years we’ll have the Mass of Benedict XVI, which will have the best of both Forms combined into one Form that everyone agrees has the right amount solemnity, bibical reference, rubrics, etc.

You’ll have to quote Gresham’s law to me, I don’t know it.

 

[rlg94086]

JKirk—

I wonder if Gresham’s Law applies to the two Forms? What I THINK will happen is that in about 5-10 years we’ll have the Mass of Benedict XVI, which will have the best of both Forms combined into one Form that everyone agrees has the right amount solemnity, bibical reference, rubrics, etc.

:ehh: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham’s_Law

Gresham’s law is commonly stated as: “When there is a legal tender currency, bad money drives good money out of circulation”. or more accurately “Money overvalued by the State will drive money undervalued by the State out of circulation.”
Gresham’s law applies specifically when there are two forms of commodity money in circulation which are forced, by the application of legal tender laws, to be respected as having the same face value in the marketplace. It is named after Sir Thomas Gresham, an English financier in Tudor times.

It would seem to me that Gresham’s law applied to this situation says that one Mass would drive out the other. This would have happened already with the OF driving out the EF, I would think, but it didn’t.

I do agree with you that Benedict XVI is bringing back the EF with the goal in the future of having a single Rite replacing the two. However, I would not think this could be done quickly, and I worry about whether the next Pope would take the same approach.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

I do agree with you that Benedict XVI is bringing back the EF with the goal in the future of having a single Rite replacing the two. However, I would not think this could be done quickly, and I worry about whether the next Pope would take the same approach.

The simplest thing would be the EF, in both Latin and in the vernacular, in each parish, with some ossifications removed in the interests of “noble simplicity.”

 

[Scotty_PGH]

The simplest thing would be the EF, in both Latin and in the vernacular, in each parish, with some ossifications removed in the interests of “noble simplicity.”

Wow, did I just read what I thought I read?

Of course, by ossifications I suspect you mean everything that puts the E in EF.

 

[Walking_Home]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JKirkLVNV
The simplest thing would be the EF, in both Latin and in the vernacular, in each parish, with some ossifications removed in the interests of “noble simplicity.”

Wow, did I just read what I thought I read?

Of course, by ossifications I suspect you mean everything that puts the E in EF.

---

That would more than likely —put us right back where we are with the NO.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Wow, did I just read what I thought I read?

Of course, by ossifications I suspect you mean everything that puts the E in EF.

I’m sure YOU would think them “E.”

 

[JKirkLVNV]

---

That would more than likely —put us right back where we are with the NO.

I very much doubt it, BUT there were abuses in the Mass when it was only in Latin, as well. Both Pope Benedict and Cardinal Arinze scoffed at the notion that the Latin Mass was abuse proof.

 

[Jean_Anthony]

Please do not take the thread off topic or I will have to close the thread. Take side issues to new or existing posts. Thank you all.

 

[Walking_Home]

I very much doubt it, BUT there were abuses in the Mass when it was only in Latin, as well. Both Pope Benedict and Cardinal Arinze scoffed at the notion that the Latin Mass was abuse proof.

---

I have heard it was said fast at times—but it is unlikely that abuses of the magnitude we see now happened with the frequency that they happen.

 

[stmaria]

The only thing that worries me is that I do not speak latin and would have absolutly NO clue what is going on in the Mass. I am a cradle Catholic, but I have never been taught latin…What would I do in that situation???

When you saw the movie *Passion of the Christ *did you understand what was going on or were you totally lost? The dialogue wasn’t in English. I am willing to bet that you read the sub titles in English and listened to the dialogue in Aramaic and you followed the movie without any problem. The Latin Mass is no different. The language of the priest is Latin but you have the “sub-titles” right there in the missal. It’s very simple.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Please do not take the thread off topic or I will have to close the thread. Take side issues to new or existing posts. Thank you all.

Right, continuing.

I still don’t think any priest should decline unilaterally to offer either of the forms. Those who do should be politely shown the door. They should all be trained in both.

 

[Walking_Home]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walking_Home
That would more than likely —put us right back where we are with the NO.

I very much doubt it, BUT there were abuses in the Mass when it was only in Latin, as well. Both Pope Benedict and Cardinal Arinze scoffed at the notion that the Latin Mass was abuse proof.

Scotty PGH Quote:
Originally Posted by JKirkLVNV
The simplest thing would be the EF, in both Latin and in the vernacular, in each parish, with some ossifications removed in the interests of “noble simplicity.”

Wow, did I just read what I thought I read?

Of course, by ossifications I suspect you mean everything that puts the E in EF.​

I didn’t say anything about abuses—so why try to detour the discussion by bringing abuses in the EF. Once the “ossifications” as you said are removed in the interest of “noble simplicity”–we end up with what we have now. You --yourself have said in other threads --you prefer the NO because of its “noble simplicity”—so what you describing is the NO. And we currently have the NO with Latin and the vernacular.

 

[chewchoo]

just yesterday my sister’s priest said that in order to perform EF at his parish the entire altar would have to be rebuilt. (it’s a newer church building). at a tremendous cost.
how many of our newer churches are also unsuited for the EF mass??

 

[Scotty_PGH]

just yesterday my sister’s priest said that in order to perform EF at his parish the entire altar would have to be rebuilt. (it’s a newer church building). at a tremendous cost.
how many of our newer churches are also unsuited for the EF mass??

What a crock. Tell that priest to watch this:

youtube.com/watch?v=oUNfbgRJOe8

Even the most unsuitable arrangement can be made to work if the desire is there. My goodness - holy priests offered the traditional Mass in bunkers and trenches!