How come some priests don't want to celebrate EF?

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mgrfin said:
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Originally Posted by Walking_Home
I read the above JKirkLVNV–and what you say in your opinion—a manly priest who is remotely intelligent KNOWS that he does NOT have to wear what you consider a frothy negligee type garment. So basicly --if a priest does wear a frothy negligee type garment it reflects back on his intelligence and manliness

I don’t know where you guys grew up, but cassocks, albs, chasubles, birettas, etc. were never considered feminine by anyone I know.

peace
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In case you did not notice—I was responding to the following and not in agreement.

Originally Posted by JKirkLVNV
You really need to learn to read properly. I haven’t cast aspersion on the manliness of priests. Look C-A-R-E-F-U-L-L-Y. I said an alb made of frothy, see-through material that resembles that fabric that is used to make negligees is hardly a manly garment. I’m entitled to that opinion.

Any priest who’s remotely intelligent and informed liturgically KNOWS (contrary to what you assert) that he does NOT have to wear the type of alb which you seem to favor
 
Scotty_PGH said:
You’re right. And it’s a twisted mind who would think they were. What you’re seeing in this thread is a desperate, contrived attempt to find fault with anything EF.
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I agree, why would anyone, That by their own admission. Never assists at the EF. Find fault with it. over the most insignificant matters…Lace albs? birettas? doffing at the Most Holy Name of Jesus??..Three types of bows??..Give me all of that…AND MORE…!!
 
mao_now said:
I agree, why would anyone, That by their own admission. Never assists at the EF. Find fault with it. over the most insignificant matters…Lace albs? birettas? doffing at the Most Holy Name of Jesus??..Three types of bows??..Give me all of that…AND MORE…!!
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It is either ignorance or malice, I’m not sure which. I need to see if this forum has an Ignore feature.
 
Scotty_PGH said:
You’re right. And it’s a twisted mind who would think they were. What you’re seeing in this thread is a desperate, contrived attempt to find fault with anything EF.
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C’mon, Scotty, NO ONE has said that cassocks, albs, chasuble, or birettas were not manly. I spoke about the fabric USED, not the article of clothing made from that fabric. Be intellectually honest. I like cassocks, I like albs, I like chasubles, and I like birettas (I simply find the constantly doffing of them DISTRACTING in the Mass. I know why it’s done, I simply said I find it DISTRACTING).

Also, if you’ve read my posts, you’ll find that I’ve said that I believe the future of the Mass will have to be ONE form (despite our beloved Holy Father’s best intentions, prayers, and hopes) and that that one form would HAVE to be the Tridentine. If and when it is, I suggested that there would be some changes, changes that I believe would be relatively minor.

And you lack a basic Christian charity apparently, to pronounce my mind as twisted.
 
JKirkLVNV said:
C’mon, Scotty, NO ONE has said that cassocks, albs, chasuble, or birettas were not manly. I spoke about the fabric USED, not the article of clothing made from that fabric. Be intellectually honest. I like cassocks, I like albs, I like chasubles, and I like birettas (I simply find the constantly doffing of them DISTRACTING in the Mass. I know why it’s done, I simply said I find it DISTRACTING).

Also, if you’ve read my posts, you’ll find that I’ve said that I believe the future of the Mass will have to be ONE form (despite our beloved Holy Father’s best intentions, prayers, and hopes) and that that one form would HAVE to be the Tridentine. If and when it is, I suggested that there would be some changes, changes that I believe would be relatively minor.

And you lack a basic Christian charity apparently, to pronounce my mind as twisted.
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There may be A solution to your great pain. Simply assist at the OF…Or if you happen to find yourself at the EF…Bow at the Most Holy Name of Jesus…your head will be down, and you wont see the clergy removing their birettas and/or cowls…🙂
But you may be on to something as regards, one form in the future…As stated in a previous post. My Priest friend said, that the EF would eventually drive out the OF…
 
mao_now said:
Do you really think that vestments were NOT part of the controversy, surrounding the Henrician “reforms” and the Elizabethan settlement??? **Let me see if I can clarify this: I’ve NEVER, NOT ONCE, suggested that we shouldn’t have vestments. I’ve never said we shouldn’t have chasubles. I’ve never said we shouldn’t have albs. I’ve never said we shouldn’t have birettas. Here’s what I said: I don’t care for and prefer not to see the frothy, negligee style fabric used FOR the albs. I prefer NOT to have the doffing of birettas during Mass. Now you can disagree with this, that’s fine. As I pointed out, however, my dislike of the things that I mentioned is no less valid than a traditionalist’s dislike of some contemporary chasubles (I have, myself, on more than one occasion, referred to them as “polyester ponchos.”) and if a traditionalist can comment on the latter, then I can comment on the former. No traditionalist should be offended thereby (particularly inasmuch as I agree with the traditionalist about the latter (the polyester ponchos).
**
I gave you the titles of 2 great works by professor Duffy. …Now, Turn off the TV. And stop watching old reruns of Starsky and Hutch…and pick up A book and read!!! **Now you’re simply being deliberately insulting and I would urge you to examine your conscience. I watch very little television and I didn’t enjoy Starsky and Hutch when they were on in prime time (I was alive then), so I doubt I would be tempted to revisit them in rerun. And I’ve been reading since I was four years old. **

Tyburn did indeed give us glorious martyrs, And Our Holy Father has given us the EF…love it or leave it…
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**Since your dispensing advice about reading, I urge you to go back and read my posts. I have never once offered insult to the Extraordinary Form (because, again, I haven’t commented on anything integral or necessary or ontological TO the Extraordinary Form). **
 
mao_now said:
I agree, why would anyone, That by their own admission. Never assists at the EF. Find fault with it. over the most insignificant matters…Lace albs? birettas? doffing at the Most Holy Name of Jesus??..Three types of bows??..Give me all of that…AND MORE…!!
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That’s your taste. Some of us find “noble simplicity” or austerity to be desirable. That is no less Catholic at heart. There’s an old saying (that I read in a book:rolleyes:): “Less is more.”
 
Walking_Home said:
I read the above JKirkLVNV–and what you say in your opinion—a manly priest who is remotely intelligent KNOWS that he does NOT have to wear what you consider a frothy negligee type garment. So basicly --if a priest does wear a frothy negligee type garment it reflects back on his intelligence and manliness
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Now, Walking Home, you and I both know that when you read my posts, you attempt to put the worse slant on it possible.

Conservatives (and I am one) complained about this vestment set (see here: cwnews.com/offtherecord/offtherecord.cfm?task=singledisplay&recnum=4369)

Incidentally, there’s much to complain about in that vestment set. As one person suggested, it looks like someone took a shot at the Holy Father with a paintball gun. BUT…if the pope wears this silly looking chasuble, does it reflect back on his intelligence or manliness? I don’t think so.
 
JKirkLVNV said:
**Since your dispensing advice about reading, I urge you to go back and read my posts. I have never once offered insult to the Extraordinary Form (because, again, I haven’t commented on anything integral or necessary or ontological TO the Extraordinary Form). **
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I think you are deliberately nit-picking. I think, (and this is only my opinion, not saying you are) you are trying to discourage Priests from the EF…thats only my opinion…
BTW…the lace albs are for Solemn feasts…Plainer ones for lower class feasts, and weekdays…

Please forgive the, reference to Starsky and Hutch…LOL…I was being, Toungue in cheek…I should have made that clearer…Lighten up!!..just dont go to the EF…Mass is not supposed to be about personal pain!..believe me (I know)
 
JKirkLVNV said:
That’s your taste. Some of us find “noble simplicity” or austerity to be desirable. That is no less Catholic at heart. There’s an old saying (that I read in a book:rolleyes:): “Less is more.”
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We decrease so that our Lord increases. That is what the EF is about. All its signs and rituals do but one thing — increase our Lord.
 
mao_now said:
There may be A solution to your great pain. Simply assist at the OF…Or if you happen to find yourself at the EF…Bow at the Most Holy Name of Jesus…your head will be down, and you wont see the clergy removing their birettas and/or cowls…🙂
But you may be on to something as regards, one form in the future…As stated in a previous post. My Priest friend said, that the EF would eventually drive out the OF…
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And when it does, it won’t be precisely the same as it is now (for one thing, it will probably be offered in the vernacular as well as Latin).
 
Walking_Home said:
We decrease so that our Lord increases. That is what the EF is about. All its signs and rituals do but one thing — increase our Lord.
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There is nothing wrong with noble simplicity. The Council called for it and the elimination of things that obscured the Mass. And Our Savior is no more honored by an abundance of lace than He is dishonored with a lack of it.
 
JKirkLVNV said:
Now, Walking Home, you and I both know that when you read my posts, you attempt to put the worse slant on it possible.
Conservatives (and I am one) complained about this vestment set (see here: cwnews.com/offtherecord/offtherecord.cfm?task=singledisplay&recnum=4369)

Incidentally, there’s much to complain about in that vestment set. As one person suggested, it looks like someone took a shot at the Holy Father with a paintball gun. BUT…if the pope wears this silly looking chasuble, does it reflect back on his intelligence or manliness? I don’t think so.
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Slant–JKirkLVNV. There is no slant. You say what you say.

About our Pope’s vestments—it does not seem feasible that our Pope would himself requested such atire. Yes he wore it–but this does not necessarily mean he was responsible for its color.
 
mao_now said:
I think you are deliberately nit-picking. I think, (and this is only my opinion, not saying you are) you are trying to discourage Priests from the EF…thats only my opinion…
BTW…the lace albs are for Solemn feasts…Plainer ones for lower class feasts, and weekdays…** You are MISTAKEN and I urge you to go and read the history of my posts. I have said that Cardinal Martini was WRONG to say that he would never offer the EF!!! I said I found that scandalous, that a prince of the Church would decline to offer one of the two forms of the Mass of his rite. Likewise, I’ve said that I’ve no use for orders that won’t say the OF, because it has the same effect as Cardinal Martini’s stance, ie, it pits one form against another. I’ve said that priests who refuse to celebrate one form or the other form should be politely thanked for their services and then shown the door. I believe EVERY priest should be trained to celebrate both and that both should be offered in every parish. I don’t think that the Holy Father’s idea is going to work out, but I think that’s the only way for it to have a shot. So think what you will, but you are mistaken.**

Please forgive the, reference to Starsky and Hutch…LOL…I was being, Toungue in cheek…I should have made that clearer…Lighten up!!..just dont go to the EF…Mass is not supposed to be about personal pain!..believe me (I know)
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I forgive you. Forgive me if I’ve cause you any undue distress.
 
Walking_Home said:
Slant–JKirkLVNV. There is no slant. You say what you say.

About our Pope’s vestments—it does not seem feasible that our Pope would himself requested such atire. Yes he wore it–but this does not necessarily mean he was responsible for its color.
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I agree, he more than likely WASN’T! The point is, the fabric, the cut, the texture, WHATEVER, can be criticized without incurring an anathema!
 
JKirkLVNV said:
There is nothing wrong with noble simplicity. The Council called for it and the elimination of things that obscured the Mass. And Our Savior is no more honored by an abundance of lace than He is dishonored with a lack of it.
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Yet it is our Pope who return the EF to the Church —so what you believe the Council called for is irrelevent to the EF. Now you may say that our Lord is no more honored one way or the other—but it how we approach Him that shows how we as creatures honor and adore Him—and that is reflected in the EF—whether anyone accepts this or not.
 
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