How common is the Latin Mass in the US?

[Tim_D]

And what’s 600 some unique Latin words? One doesn’t need to be a Latin scholar to say the EF.

One also doesn’t need to be a scholar in their native language, the same language that they will use in service to their parish. It shouldn’t be necessary but there needs to be an acceptance that the current form of the liturgy is the Ordinary Form as dictated by the Church and it allows the local bishops to decide on the language that they believe will best serve their dioceses. Some Masses are in English, Spanish, Vietnamese or even Polish, depending upon the community. I fail to understand why you think that a bishop would decide that a one size fits all mandatory language like latin should be forced upon people from different cultural backgrounds. As already stated, latin is available for those who seek it and that current desire is from a minimal minority.

And I’m done with this thread.

Deacon Jeff and otjm have done an excellent job of clarifying the issues that you have brought up. I hope that your frustration isn’t due to being corrected.

 

[Mark121359]

.St. Alphonsus Church Baltimore, Md TLM; 12:10 pm. Wednesday and Saturday. Sunday 11:30 am. This church is where American Saint, St. John Neumann, professed his vows as a Religious, served as pastor, and was consecrated a bishop. I just attended the Latin Mass there today! Monsignor Arthur W. Bastress is Pastor who also happens to be my confessor. Wonderful man who just turned 90 and is still going strong. He’s the oldest pastor in the Archdiocese of Baltimore. EWTN’s Faithful Traveler did an episode on this church and interviewed Msgr. Bastress.

View attachment 22648 View attachment 22649

Peace, Mark

 

[otjm]

Most major cities will have roughly 1-2 parishes that will hold these Latin Masses. Those that attend tend to be strong adherents, and oftentimes drive a considerable distance to attend.

I appreciate enthusiasm, but numbers help. I have no idea what your definition of a major city is; there are 34 cities (including several in Canada) which have at least 2 EF Masses; and only 6 which have more than 2. That leaves 433 parishes - major cities, minor cities, towns, military bases (2) and minor towns with 1 EF, which in some circumstances is once per month.

Part of the challenge with wider acceptance of the Latin Mass is a shortage of priests. Most parishioners born after Vatican II are completely unfamiliar.

As SP says that a priest cannot be required to say the EF, yes, there are few who have chosen to do so. And yes, most born after V2 have not attended one, but that does not mean they are ignorant of its existence.

You also have challenges with the physical church layout itself, as well as challenges with vestments and related church accessories. Modern Catholic churches are not typically designed for a Latin Mass, complete with an altar rail, etc.

Given that during the Vietnam war and previous wars, Mass was said on the hood of a jeep, nice, yes. Necessary, no, except for those who wish to focus on non-essentials.

Few parishioners would be familiar with Latin, let alone the old liturgy or Gregorian Chant.

In the 1950’s when I was an altar boy, most parishioners knew no Latin; that is why they had missals.

Even with all of these obstacles, the Latin Mass is still very popular, and growing organically throughout the country. Many of the Latin Mass parishes have young families, many with several young children who will grow up with the Latin Mass. Over the next generation, as they young children mature into adults, the Latin Mass will continue to gain in popularity.

Very popular is a very personal opinion. After 8 years, less than 3% of all parishes nationwide have the EF, and there are repeated comments that Masses have 100 to 150 people. And yes, they come from other parishes, which indicates that the parish itself would have a very small group attending. That does not indicate “very popular”.

As someone else mentioned, the FSSP seminaries are growing rapidly, and there is apparently a long waiting list for would-be priests to attend their seminaries.

True; and they are ordaining an average of 11 priests per year, since 2004.

Re-educating unfamiliar Catholics on the Latin Mass will take time.

Which presumes that they want to be educated in the first place; nothing indicates any significant desire.

The biggest obstacle to the growth of the Latin Mass is that new attendees are both unfamiliar with Latin, but also unfamiliar with the structure of the liturgy. As a result, they sometimes feel like a fish out of water. It takes sometimes a year or more to finally get the pattern of the liturgy, and a few years to start to understand the Latin to any degree. This takes time, patience, and commitment.

Which flies in the face of Summorum Pontificum; that document presumes that only those who have an interest will seek it out. You seem to be assuming that bishops are going to start requiring it to be said more widely; SP is to the contrary. And I don’t think there is a bishop, including every one of them who highly favor the EF, who would do so.

Some catch the Latin Mass bug, and are die-hard adherents for life. To others, it just doesn’t resonate for some reason.

And the largest reason of all is that most people want to go to Mass in their own language. If they speak English, they will not go to a Mass in Spanish; if they are Spanish, they will not go to a Mass in Vietnamese, and from the turnouts I have seen in Spanish Masses, they pretty much prefer to not go to one in English. Most people are not educated in rubrics now, nor were they 60 years ago. They want reverence to be exhibited by the priest saying the Mass, but that does not require either Latin or the EF rubrics.

 

[otjm]

I say if the EF is supported financially, it will exist. If not, then it will die. But isn’t that what you’re basically saying over and over?

And I’m done with this thread.

No, that is not what I am saying, over and over - or at all.

What I am saying is about the same thing that Pope Benedict said in his accompanying letter to Summorum Pontificum; in that letter, he said to the effect that he did not see the EF becoming widely popular. He did not say that he saw it dying out.

And I am saying essentially the same thing; except that I am 1) answering the question specifically which the OP posted, and 2) trying to bring some factual evidence to the table in a discussion which has been going on since word got out that the EF was going to be made more available.

A few years ago, there was great enthusiasm, not just that the EF was coming back, but comments indicating that certain enthusiasts foresaw it replacing the OF, or certainly becoming more popular than the OF.

That simply has not happened. Several years ago I did a count of the parishes in the Chicago Archdiocese; and it was somewhere between 12 and 15 (I don’t recall exactly, but it was right around 3%). They now have 11, which is at least one less. On the other hand, other dioceses have instituted the EF in various towns and cities in which it did not exist at the time. The growth has been very small; but none of us can say it has absolutely peaked. On the other hand, after 8 years, it is hard to believe that somewhere, somehow, it is going to blossom to, say, 10% - which would be a tripling of what exists now.

Do I see it dying off? No. Will it grow? Perhaps, but the evidence doesn’t support any indication of much growth. Will some parishes discontinue having it? That has already happened, but it does not appear to be significant overall; on the other hand, it is likely that it will continue here and there.

Another telling point is with those entering seminaries. While there are minor sub groups oriented to the EF and going to seminaries which focus on that, there is precious little evidence that the vast majority of those entering seminary are interested in the EF; out of 515 men ordained in 2015, 15 were FSSP - and not all of them may be incardinated.

So no, I am not saying that the existence and viability of the EF is financial. The existence and viability of the EF is predicated on the existence and viability of a stable group, large enough for the diocese to commit time and talent to ministering to the group. If the group is too small, the priorities of ministering to the greater majority will take precedence. While a group may remain relatively stable for a period of time - a number of years - it will need to recruit new members, or it will shrink due to people moving, people dying, people determining for whatever reason that an OF Mass will fit them better than the EF, or for who knows what reason.

And yes, there is the issue of the young families attending the EF, and having large families themselves; however, there is no particular reason, given the last 50 years of history, that those children will stay in the same parish or nearby; or that they will all stay practicing Catholics (I would expect higher attendance as adults than what the current non-EF parishes are experiencing); or that they will necessarily adopt the spirituality of their parents; or that they may marry and find a spouse who has the same spirituality; the issues go on and on.

The bottom line is that the vernacular is far more attractive to the vast majority of Catholics who attend Mass weekly.

 

[MissRose73]

My diocese does not have one at all. It is the only one in the state without one. If I am able to go to one due to my work schedule, I have to travel around 40 miles each way to attend one.

 

[outremer]

I know a number of the Masses have been discontinued, so I couldn’t tell you. I’d imagine they are less than one half of one percent of all Catholic religious services. I’d say that would be the percentage of traditional Catholics as well.

 

[ProVobis]

I hope that your -]frustration/-] exhaustion isn’t due to being -]corrected/-] challenged.

There, fixed it for you, although I consider it argumentum gratia argumenti.

 

[Kielbasi]

In the 1950’s when I was an altar boy, most parishioners knew no Latin; that is why they had missals.
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Agreed that the majority of Catholics in the traditional age knew little Latin- although I think some picked up a few phrases in school or in church, and Latin was generally a lot better known back then.

Educated people, including non-catholics, usually studied Latin in high school back then.

But during the Latin mass, many of the prayers were said in a low voice and it could be fairly difficult for even native speakers to actually follow along (from my understanding, I’m not a Latin scholar).

Most Catholics, in the traditional age, followed along with the mass by the positions and actions of the priest and the servers- not from the written material. Hence, a lot of emphasis on the rubrics and rules for saying mass, to make sure it was intelligible and people could follow it.

 

[StGerardMajella]

I appreciate enthusiasm, but numbers help. I have no idea what your definition of a major city is; there are 34 cities (including several in Canada) which have at least 2 EF Masses; and only 6 which have more than 2. That leaves 433 parishes - major cities, minor cities, towns, military bases (2) and minor towns with 1 EF, which in some circumstances is once per month.

I am referring to major metropolitan areas - Chicago, New York, Detroit, etc. Each of these cities generally has 1-2 flagship parishes in communion with the Archdiocese where the Latin Mass is celebrated.

This is even true for smaller cities, such as Toledo, Ohio, and generally true throughout the country. Most Archdioceses will host a single parish or two for the Latin Mass.

On top of that, you also have the FSSP, SSPX, and other independents - such as CMRI - that celebrate the Latin Mass. Some of these are affiliated with Rome, most are not.

You also have a select group of monasteries and religious communities that still celebrate the Latin Mass as well.

As SP says that a priest cannot be required to say the EF, yes, there are few who have chosen to do so. And yes, most born after V2 have not attended one, but that does not mean they are ignorant of its existence.

A lay parishioner may have heard of the Latin Mass, but that doesn’t mean that they are familiar, or have ever attended. I never mentioned anything about “knowledge of its existence”. I mentioned familiarity.

To the contrary, many priests are learning the Latin Mass. It does take time to learn the rubrics, and the training classes are in high demand.

Una Voce (from the Preface of the Most Holy Trinity – “with one voice”) is an international federation of associations, founded in 1966 in Rome, that now includes 41 member national associations in 17 nations on every continent. Una Voce is dedicated to ensuring that the Roman Mass codified by St. Pius V is maintained as one of the forms of Eucharistic worship which are honored in universal liturgical life, and to restoring the use of Latin, Gregorian Chant, and sacred polyphony in Catholic liturgy.

Una Voce America estimates that approximately 1,000 priests in the past decade have completed a formal training program for the traditional Latin Mass, and many seminaries are starting to offer training of priests in the rubrics of the Latin Mass.

In our parish, we have several priests new to the Latin Mass that celebrate the Mass for the first time at our church. I have found this to be a common phenomenon at many other parishes around the country as well. Our parish is a rotating “training ground” for priests that are just starting to say the Latin Mass.

Given that during the Vietnam war and previous wars, Mass was said on the hood of a jeep, nice, yes. Necessary, no, except for those who wish to focus on non-essentials.

Again, you are completely missing the point. Most modern churches are not conducive to conducting a Latin Mass due to the physical layout of the church.

As a result, the Archdiocese will typically place these Latin Masses in older churches that are more conducive to the Latin Mass - in terms of the placement of the organ, the tabernacle, the altar, the altar rails, etc.

Sure, you could say a Latin Mass anywhere - No kidding. That’s not even remotely the point. If you are going to have a traditional Latin Mass parish, then the layout of the church needs to different from a functional perspective. Good grief.

In the 1950’s when I was an altar boy, most parishioners knew no Latin; that is why they had missals.

I was referring to today’s Catholics that attend the Novus Ordo. Most would have little, if any, knowledge of Latin.

Very popular is a very personal opinion. After 8 years, less than 3% of all parishes nationwide have the EF, and there are repeated comments that Masses have 100 to 150 people. And yes, they come from other parishes, which indicates that the parish itself would have a very small group attending. That does not indicate “very popular”.

Patently false. The Latin Mass communities and publications keep track of these statistics, and publish them rather often. The growth in the Latin Mass has been phenomenal.

There are now an estimated 400 parishes that offer the Latin Mass every Sunday in the U.S. This compared to a little over 50 in 1991. These statistics are courtesy of Una Voce affiliate, Coalition in Support of Ecclesia Dei.

You seem to be assuming that bishops are going to start requiring it to be said more widely; SP is to the contrary. And I don’t think there is a bishop, including every one of them who highly favor the EF, who would do so.

Please don’t make assumptions - I can speak on my own behalf. To the contrary, many bishops have suppressed the Latin Mass, and some even now continue to try to suppress it. Very few favor the Latin Mass, though there have been some major positive developments and inroads. The work of Pope Benedict was a landmark victory for the traditionalists. Despite the suppression, the Latin Mass continues to grow.

And the largest reason of all is that most people want to go to Mass in their own language.

To the contrary, most adherents to the Latin Mass are attracted to its beauty, reverence, and adherence to tradition. The Mass being said in Latin is secondary. People don’t flock to the Latin Mass just because it is said in Latin.

 

[Tim_D]

There, fixed it for you, although I consider it argumentum gratia argumenti.

Sorry but you’ll have to use English with this boy.

 

[Benedict_Option]

I made a quick count from what appears to be reliable information, and there appear to be about 507 churches (parishes and missions) which have the EF. Some of those may be once a month; many are not celebrated on a Sunday or a Saturday evening, but rather some time during the week, and not all of those are weekly. For example, there may be an EF on a Saturday morning or early afternoon.

As there are about 17,337 parishes, that puts it at a little over 2.9% of parishes nationwide which have an EF celebrated at least once a month - with many weekly.
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Yes that is basically what I’m given to understand.
There has been a substantial growth in Latin Mass parishes and being celebrated at least monthly in the U.S.

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[otjm]

I

Patently false. The Latin Mass communities and publications keep track of these statistics, and publish them rather often. The growth in the Latin Mass has been phenomenal.

You flip back and forth by your own statements - growth is phenomenal, and growth is suppressed… 507 parishes out of 17,337 is hardly phenomenal, when the EF permission is over 8 years ago. It is actually very gradual.

There are now an estimated 400 parishes that offer the Latin Mass every Sunday in the U.S. This compared to a little over 50 in 1991. These statistics are courtesy of Una Voce affiliate, Coalition in Support of Ecclesia Dei.

I just love estimates. They can be so inaccurate. My list actually lists the time of the Masses by each parish, noting which ones are Sunday, which may be, for example, the 2nd, 4th and 5th Sundays of the month, which ones are 6 times a year, which are on Saturdays, or on a Wednesday… 339 parishes are listed as having one or more Masses every Sunday. Oh, and one was listed as having the Mass at the Culinary Institute of America (New York Archdiocese, Hyde Park, Our Lady of the Way Chapel).

I have no desire to go round and round with you, particularly as you use the language that I so often find - “many” being an operative term. The EF is growing, gradually, and shrinking at the same time where Masses have been discontinued; sometimes there is a note that the priest retired or was transferred; others have no note; and there are parishes which had the EF, but the EF has been transferred to another parish.

I counted 177 dioceses and archdioceses, and according to the Mass listing, 166 dioceses and arch dioceses have one or more parishes supporting the EF in some form. Given that there is a specific appeal procedure where a bishop has denied the EF in any form, (actually, denied a specific request from a group), I find it a bit disingenuous to make allegations concerning bishops denying the EF as if all power in the matter was in the bishop’s hands. Any denial is appealable; if it is not appealed, then I have to wonder how much had to do with the lack of a stable group of sufficient size (and Pope Benedict in his wisdom chose not to define size).

I also noticed that my count of 507 parishes may be inflated, as Guam and several jurisdictions in Canada were in my list, along with Puerto Rico, and at least two military locations.

I am not anti EF, although some may see me as such; I suspect that this is more a reaction to enthusiasm meeting facts.

There certainly have been comments in this forum in the past of people who state clearly they have no EF to attend within any reasonable distance. Again, SP provides the format and process of requesting the EF, and it is up to those who wish to have an EF to get together and do something about it. Neither the Pope - Benedict of Francis - nor the bishops are going to go out and start it where it is not requested; it has to come from the bottom up. And as Pope Benedict made clear, he did not see it being anything other than out of the ordinary; the OF being the ordinary.

 

[otjm]

Yes that is basically what I’m given to understand.
There has been a substantial growth in Latin Mass parishes and being celebrated at least monthly in the U.S.

http://www.detroitlatinmass.org/pertin/grf.jpg

You are not going to get an “A” on that graph, as it is skewed by years. Put all years in, or keep all stats in the same year spread - 2 years, 3 years 4 years apart, or whatever. Granted it is not quite parabolic, but it is clearly inaccurate as set forth.

 

[R_H_Benson]

Yes that is basically what I’m given to understand.
There has been a substantial growth in Latin Mass parishes and being celebrated at least monthly in the U.S.

http://www.detroitlatinmass.org/pertin/grf.jpg

It is truly wonderful to see such a steady growth of the TLM! We can only pray that as more young Catholics are exposed to the Mass of Ages that is their birthright, the numbers will continue to increase. One can certainly remain optimistic, especially with an average of 11 new priests of the FSSP being ordained each year. How beautiful that Our Lord is calling these young men to the priesthood with this specific charism!

 

[R_H_Benson]

Despite the suppression, the Latin Mass continues to grow.

Praise be to God!

 

[ChristopherM]

Interesting timing of this.
I am 31 and I had my first exposure to the traditional latin mass as a kid in the 90’s - with Fr. Rizzo shortly after he left the SSPX - I of course as a kid did not know all of his story etc.

In short I returned to the church / Latin Mass in early 2007 - only for it to take off and flouris after this.

I haven’t posted on this forum in awhile but I wanted to share my blog post about how Divine providence allowed me to hold a Traditional Requiem Mass for my deceased Godmother (Aunt) in our home town.

If you have time and are interested here is the link

lostlambs.net/post/134448547244/requiem-aeternam

Good discussion I will try to follow up soon.

 

[StGerardMajella]

You flip back and forth by your own statements - growth is phenomenal, and growth is suppressed… 507 parishes out of 17,337 is hardly phenomenal, when the EF permission is over 8 years ago. It is actually very gradual.

I am not sure where you have been before Pope Benedict made his Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum, but the Latin Mass was definitely suppressed.

Since the Motu Proprio, the Latin Mass has flourished, continues to flourish, and will continue to flourish.

Take another close look at the graph. Since the late 1980s, the Latin Mass has gone from less than 20 parishes to over 400. That’s called organic growth. If you were a publicly traded company and had 50 retail branches in the early 90’s, and now had 400, your stock price would be going up, not down. Way up.

Considering the Latin Mass was quite literally on its deathbed - Yes, the growth has been nothing short of phenomenal. In business, the revival of the Latin Mass would be called a “comeback story”. The Latin Mass arose from the dead, when every indication suggested that it would never again gain traction with the public.

Over 1,000 priests in the past decade have been trained in the Extraordinary Form. That, too, is called growth.

Anecdotally, as I stated earlier, many of the attendees at these traditional Latin Masses are large families with many, many children. I am talking about families with 10 kids or more growing up with the Latin Mass. Lots of kids are now being raised under the traditional Latin Mass.

And Latin Mass adherents don’t tend to be weak in fervor. Many make significant sacrifices to attend on an ongoing basis, driving considerable distances.

The future couldn’t be any brighter.

339 parishes are listed as having one or more Masses every Sunday.

Again, you are not including the SSPX or other similar traditionalist organizations not in full communion with Rome. They continue to grow as well. These organizations were, unfortunately, necessary during a time of great darkness and suppression.

I have no desire to go round and round with you, particularly as you use the language that I so often find - “many” being an operative term.

Yes, we are sadly all too familiar with your mindset. Thankfully, we must be doing something right, because the gates of hell have not prevailed against us.

As Fr. Amorth, Chief Exorcist of Rome, states, “The Devil hates Latin”.

I am not anti EF, although some may see me as such; I suspect that this is more a reaction to enthusiasm meeting facts.

We have provided ample factual evidence, as well as anecdotal. You can apparently lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink.

 

[Tim_D]

…as more young Catholics are exposed to the Mass of Ages that is their birthright…

Since when is the form of the Mass anyone’s “birthright?”

 

[otjm]

I am not sure where you have been before Pope Benedict made his Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum, but the Latin Mass was definitely suppressed.

Since the Motu Proprio, the Latin Mass has flourished, continues to flourish, and will continue to flourish.

Flourish is an emotional word for growth. It has grown, and I have never said otherwise.

Take another close look at the graph. Since the late 1980s, the Latin Mass has gone from less than 20 parishes to over 400. That’s called organic growth. If you were a publicly traded company and had 50 retail branches in the early 90’s, and now had 400, your stock price would be going up, not down. Way up.

Thank you for mentioning the graph. For a Mass that was suppressed, it is a bit surprising that in 2007, there were about 230 EF Masses nationwide; and in 9 years, it has about doubled. Give it 30 Masses added per year (for bout 270), that works out to about 0.173% growth per year - not even close to what a publicly traded company would do. Way up? If it was stock, it wouldn’t be going anywhere.

Considering the Latin Mass was quite literally on its deathbed - Yes, the growth has been nothing short of phenomenal. In business, the revival of the Latin Mass would be called a “comeback story”. The Latin Mass arose from the dead, when every indication suggested that it would never again gain traction with the public.

Well, growth is a number more or less; between 2007 with less than one and one half percent of all parishes having the EF, to 9 years later and less than 3% having the EF, yes, that is growth. And it is positive growth. And adding less than 2 tenths of a percent per year is not what I would call a flourish. You are welcome to call it a flourish, but many would call it relatively small but positive growth over time. You and I do not disagree that it has grown; we disagree on how to characterize it.

Over 1,000 priests in the past decade have been trained in the Extraordinary Form. That, too, is called growth.

and I have not said to the contrary. Interesting, that during the years you label “suppressed” that people were doing what supposedly could not be done.

Anecdotally, as I stated earlier, many of the attendees at these traditional Latin Masses are large families with many, many children. I am talking about families with 10 kids or more growing up with the Latin Mass. Lots of kids are now being raised under the traditional Latin Mass.

And estimates are that they would stay with the EF. Some will, some won’t, and only the future will tell, not our guesses or our hopes and wishes.

And Latin Mass adherents don’t tend to be weak in fervor. Many make significant sacrifices to attend on an ongoing basis, driving considerable distances.

Absolutely, both because there are so few EF Masses, and so few stable groups forming to be able to request another one.

The future couldn’t be any brighter.

That is a matter of perspective. One might think that if the EF was going up 1% per year, that would be a lot brighter than 2/10ths of one percent.

Again, you are not including the SSPX or other similar traditionalist organizations not in full communion with Rome. They continue to grow as well. These organizations were, unfortunately, necessary during a time of great darkness and suppression.

The argument from necessity was answered 2 popes ago and hasn’t changed over the two who followed him.

Yes, we are sadly all too familiar with your mindset. Thankfully, we must be doing something right, because the gates of hell have not prevailed against us.

You haven’t the faintest idea of what my mindset is. When I was young, I served in every position available to an altar boy in Solemn High Masses, from candle bearer to altar boy to thurifer to Master of Ceremonies (several times), and entered the seminary in college 5 years before the OF was introduced. So please, spare me the snide comment; if you don’t like the facts that is not my problem, and all I have done is go past the emotional language to state factually the answer to the OP.

As Fr. Amorth, Chief Exorcist of Rome, states, “The Devil hates Latin”.

Fr. Amorth was speaking specifically of exorcisms. Having taken Latin in both high school and college, I am baffled as to why the comment.

Well, actually, I am not baffled. Amused might be a better description.

We have provided ample factual evidence, as well as anecdotal. You can apparently lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink.

I consider the facts I have presented to be evidence. Ample I will leave to others. But considering that none of what I have produced has been disputed, they stand.

 

[StGerardMajella]

For a Mass that was suppressed, it is a bit surprising that in 2007, there were about 230 EF Masses nationwide; and in 9 years, it has about doubled. Give it 30 Masses added per year (for bout 270), that works out to about 0.173% growth per year

If a business doubles every decade, the stock would skyrocket.

If we had less than 20 parishes saying the Latin Mass by the late 80’s, and now we have over 400, that’s phenomenal growth.

If you took a company with $20 million in Revenue per annum, and now it is doing $400 million in Revenue per annum, that would be called massive growth and a tremendous success story. Only by twisted logic would anyone suggest otherwise.

The graph goes back to the late 80’s, not just 2007. And it doesn’t include the growth of the SSPX, CMRI, and other traditionalist organizations.

The real success story is that the Latin Mass was revived from the dead. By the late 80’s, no one could have projected the current revival.

And estimates are that they would stay with the EF. Some will, some won’t, and only the future will tell, not our guesses or our hopes and wishes.

Projected trajectory based on historical growth. Not an uncommon valuation.

If it were a stock, you would have a pretty safe bet given a historical growth track record going back to the late 80’s.

Absolutely, both because there are so few EF Masses, and so few stable groups forming to be able to request another one.

No, the fervor isn’t caused by scarcity. Latin Mass parishes are very stable, many having been in existence for multiple years.

And highly organized. The FSSP in particular is very organized.

You haven’t the faintest idea of what my mindset is.

Sure we do. Do you really think we haven’t heard these frail arguments from similar detractors in the past? Or do you think your argument is somehow special and unique?

Well, actually, I am not baffled. Amused might be a better description.

[edited]