The fact that it “reverberates throughout the New Testament” should give credence to the story, not detract from it.
I’m glad you enjoy the discussion.
Well, since there is no absolute scientific evidence of the evolution of the human species, it already contradicts the evolutionary process. Incidentally, I have a lot of trouble with the theory of evolution. For one, if it’s true, why do we not see it going on all time? It seems to me that we should be able to point to the evolution of a species that has occurred in the more recent past.
I would think that evolution doesn’t have natural evils in it. Evolution does need death, else how would a species fit the 1000’s of generations on earth needed to changed just slightly.
I have my own skepticism about the theory of evolution. At the very least, it surely does not seem to be able to have gone on by itself without the constant pull toward complexity by the hand of God.
But you will notice there are two separate stories of the creation of Man. In the first chapter he creates Man, but in chapter two, he creates Adam specifically and places him in the garden.
Actually, there are two or three different forms of evil that I recently heard of as it was described by a priest on EWTN. Animals killing one another for food is considered a “natural evil,” if I remember correctly. In other words, it is a form of evil because a life is destroyed in the process, but it is a natural law on earth. I wish I could remember who discussed it and on what program. If I find out, I will post more information.
Read Eze 18 and if evolution were false, how would that change your question?
Evolutionary Theory is only that, but regardless of how man came into being, the reality seems to be that at the point that God breathed spirit and soul and intellect and free will into man, man became accountable to God for his choices. That accountability pemeated all of human life. As we know in our Catholic faith, we are all one body, Christ’s bride to be, not only at the Last Supper and after the formation of the early Church. We were and are always One body in Christ, eternally. Christ created each one of us for his good pleasure; he did not decide that one is favored and the other destined to rot.
I think the perspective that God has punished the human family for Adam and Eve’s choice to know good and evil is in error. What that says is that God has punished us with free will. Not a theologically sound argument. Adam and Eve chose to know good and evil, and God knew at the point that he created the universe, that we would fall away from Him and choose to walk our own course. Of course He knew. His whole intent in creating us was to give us the free will to seek and love Him. The knowledge of good and evil is what we have in order to be free. The knowledge of good and evil is first and foremost the awareness of Godlessness, the absence of the Holy Spirit in our lives, our midst, our temple. We are free to choose to love God and obey Him. If we were not aware of good and evil, aware of ourselves, we would not know that there is a choice we have to make to follow God or follow our own selfish desires. Instinct is all that we would have and God’s love and mercy exceed that bound. If it was through evolution that humans came to be, then God chose to breathe in us a soul to understand, a spirit to seek Him, an intellect to reason how and why and who He is, and from these came the free will to seek Him if we desire Him.
Original sin, therefore, is not a curse, but the awareness of good and evil, awareness of the self, awareness of the potential absence of the Spirit in our lives. The effect of original sin is that we must therefore battle between selfishness and selflessness each day of our lives. When you read the Genesis account of the fall of man and later, the slaying of Abel by Cain, we see that God came looking for Adam and Eve and Cain, respectively. The Scripture, though inspired by God, still allows for the individual’s creative recounting of events. Thus, in the Bible, God appears to be ignorant of the fact that Adam and Eve just committed their first act of disobedience and ignorant when Cain slays Abel. You can ask, why didn’t God stop them? But He didn’t because when He breathed spirit and intellect into us, that gave us free will to act apart from God, without awareness of Him. You notice that while Eve knew that God had instructed her not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, she did not say to the serpent, “Wait, first let me go and talk to God and see what I should do.” Instead, without calling on the Spirit, she chose to act apart from God. She exercised her free will. God gave our first parents that blessing and he blessed us all with that gift of choice. Why should He have given it to Adam and Eve and then withheld it from us because they chose to act apart from God? That would be selfish of Him, would it not? That would be a punishment. Instead, we read on that God tells Adam and Eve that their days from henceforth will be full of toil and pain and suffering. Again, the creative intellect of the writer presents God’s commands as a curse on man. In actuality, God was warning Adam and Eve about the suffering that was to come because man now has the knowledge of good and evil and self-awareness. Like a little child who decides he is going to cross the street on his own, a parent would say, “Let me warn you, there will be speeders that will dash past you in both directions, whipping you to and fro with their cars and they will not stop to let you cross. You will struggle to get across the street, and lights will flash and your time will be limited and drivers will keep passing; some might hit you, causing you great pain….” You get my drift. Man’s freedom comes at a price to us, and freedom is never free.
Your statement that we lost something, I believe, is also in error. We did not lose anything. Instead, we gained greater freedom to choose God. The side effect is what we don’t like; the side effect is that we often choose to disobey God and commit harm to ourselves and others, causing great suffering and tragedy in our lives. You know the saying that greater freedom carries greater responsibility - well, that is what the Garden of Eden was about - man choosing greater freedom to choose God or the absence of Him. And man has taken that freedom lightly and with a false understanding of what that freedom means.
Awesome man!!! I thought I was the only person that had figured this out. The fact that we are the fallen angels, being given a second chance, is the only logical explanation for why God can throw people into hell, some of whom have never even heard the name of Christ.