How could Judas have betrayed Christ?

[Justin99]

The thing to remember when reading the passion narrative is that when we examine our own lives, if we were in the position that the various characters were in, is it not more than likely that we would be Judas? Or Peter? Or the crowd?

How likely is it that we would be like Christ, or the three Marys and John the apostle, or Simon of Cyrene?

Judas ate and drank with the Lord, so do we. Christ spoke directly to Judas, as he does to us. Judas saw the signs worked by the Lord, so do we. Judas betrayed Christ. So do we.

Judas’ betrayal of Christ is sinful. But the greater sin was his refusal to accept the forgiveness offered by Christ. Our only hope is that, at the moment of his (self-inflicted) death, his heart was changed.

 

[John7]

By possessed do you mean just given to sin? or was he really “possessed” and had a pre-assumed demon that was impairing his judgement?

John 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
John 13:27 After the morsel, Satan then entered into him.

not only was Judas a devil
(not that he had a devil but
scripture says that he was a devil)
but later satan entered into him,
(as karebear92 pointed out)
Satan entered into a devil.
Judas was a devil possessed by satan
when he betrayed Jesus.

 

[jcrichton]

although a sign is not necessary for true conversion, it seems like if a person whitnesses such a thing that he could not possibly doubt God’s existence and his awesome power. but Judas did witness many signs and yet he still betrayed the Lord. if all that is written truly happened, how could Judas be brave enough…eh… dumb enough to turn over who he knew to be a great servant of God. I realize that 30 silver pieces is a lot, but he had seen the abundance that the Lord offered in the division of bread and right before the crucifiction he had seen Christ kill the fog tree where he was told he could move mountains just lIke Christ, and so it seems really unlikely that Judas was provoked by greed. if he was greedy he probably would have tried first to abuse some of Christ’s powers wouldn’t you think? if Judas was really hardened by the Lord to fulfill a prophecy, then that would truly make God cruel and capable of leading people to sin like the devil through forcing Judas to provide false testimony. this seems really uncharacteristic of God who even by causing pharoah to persecute the Israelite slaves did not not cause actual sin, just tragedy. the actions of the other apostles; their devotion to God after his ascension are really true testaments to God’s truth, but the actions of Judas really bother me

I have debated the issue of Judas for some years now… there are small details which most of us do not take into consideration (I am a proponent that Judas’ fate is not sealed by the factors that developed… that Yahweh God’s Mercy is beyond human understanding of Justice, Mercy, and Wrath–Ezekiel 18); the first item we must consider is that it was prophecy: from early own it is foretold that one of His friends would betray Him–if one of the twelve disciples did not betray Jesus every passage in Scriptures that speaks on this betrayal would be mute, consequently making Yahweh God a liar.

Second: Jesus makes it a point to single Judas out as the one who would betray Him; several of Jesus’ references make Judas a devil, son of perdition, and one who would have been better not to have been born–John 17:12 is the most poignant revelation of Judas’ inescapable fate to betray Jesus…

Is it uncharacteristic of God to orchestrate His Salvific Plan? No. I believe that it is more our limited minds that fail to see beyond the physical factors… I think that the key lies in one particular revelation that Jesus made: “…the Son of man must be betrayed, but woe to him who betrays him… it would have been better for him not to have been born…” (some paraphrasing as I am writing from memory)

As you noted, Judas was not the sharpest of people… but was that due to his inability to understand things or as with the disciples on the road to Emmaus, could the truth not have been shielded from him–I mean, how obtuse must a person be to ask Jesus to identify the betrayer (St. John 13:21-30) and not realize that it is he himself?

So while it is a sin to commit suicide (thou shall not kill), it is quite possible that God provided Judas with a means to repentance and Salvation through self-sacrifice (note that Judas’ failure to undo Jesus’ betrayal did not compel him to seek the comfort of women, alcohol or other drugs); being short on fellowship and Faith Judas could have taken Jesus on His Word: “it would be better for that man if he had never been born.”

If Nicodemus, a master/doctor of the Law, was far removed from understanding Scriptures and God’s Mysteries, could a non-Believer who was blind to Jesus’ Divinity fare any better? Giving up his life could well have been Judas’ only saving grace!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

No, God does not cause sin. God gives everyone free will, so everyone can sin, including the apostles. Jesus chose the apostles carefully. He knew what each of them would do. I believe he chose Judas knowing he would betray him. Judas did not have to betray him, and Jesus did not want him to betray him, but he knew he would.

…but if Judas did not betray Jesus, than who would–is God Salvific Plan up for grabs? Can a direct Messianic prophecy be turned on the whim a man?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I don’t find his betrayal surprising at all. I think he felt cheated. Jesus dissappointed him by not being the type of saviour Judas (and many others) desired. As for miracles, people are capable of erasing things from memory when it is convenient to do so. I’m sure he managed to rationalise it in some way. It is done all the time by hardened unbelievers.

 

[karebear92]

…but if Judas did not betray Jesus, than who would–is God Salvific Plan up for grabs? Can a direct Messianic prophecy be turned on the whim a man?

Maran atha!

Angel

Do you think God doesn’t know the sins you or I will commit in our lifetimes? That doesn’t mean I don’t have a choice; just that He knows what choice I will make before I make it. God lives outside of time. He knows what will happen in 2,000 years, but he is not controlling what we do at this very moment. Judas had the choice not to sin, but God knew he would from the start.

Think of Fatima. Mary was able to tell all of the children where they were going after they died. One of them lived for like 80 years, but Mary still knew that she would end up in Heaven and that the one girl that they asked about would be in Purgatory until the end of time (or the world, I can’t recall exactly what they said).

 

[karebear92]

To add to what I said above, think of all of the people Jesus could have chosen. I think he chose Judas because Judas would betray him. Judas was the perfect person for the part. Just like Peter. Jesus did not make do with Peter because he was the best He had; Peter was the perfect person.

Think about this: Jesus knew that Peter would deny him three times before Peter denied him once. Does that mean that Peter could have not denied him, of course he could have, but Jesus knew Peter better than Peter knew himself.

 

[CEM5]

although a sign is not necessary for true conversion, it seems like if a person whitnesses such a thing that he could not possibly doubt God’s existence and his awesome power. but Judas did witness many signs and yet he still betrayed the Lord. if all that is written truly happened, how could Judas be brave enough…eh… dumb enough to turn over who he knew to be a great servant of God. I realize that 30 silver pieces is a lot, but he had seen the abundance that the Lord offered in the division of bread and right before the crucifiction he had seen Christ kill the fog tree where he was told he could move mountains just lIke Christ, and so it seems really unlikely that Judas was provoked by greed. if he was greedy he probably would have tried first to abuse some of Christ’s powers wouldn’t you think? if Judas was really hardened by the Lord to fulfill a prophecy, then that would truly make God cruel and capable of leading people to sin like the devil through forcing Judas to provide false testimony. this seems really uncharacteristic of God who even by causing pharoah to persecute the Israelite slaves did not not cause actual sin, just tragedy. the actions of the other apostles; their devotion to God after his ascension are really true testaments to God’s truth, but the actions of Judas really bother me

I would say that every time one of us sins, we betray Christ.

 

[Benadam]

Remember Judas managed the money for the whole group. There was an event that took place that made Judas believe that his actions would have the support of the majority of the other 11 diciples. Note that they didn’t make their complaint to Jesus as the italisized sentence indicates.

Mat 26

[6] And when Jesus was in Bethania, in the house of Simon the leper, [7] There came to him a woman having an alabaster box of precious ointment, and poured it on his head as he was at table. [8] And the disciples seeing it, had indignation, saying: To what purpose is this waste? [9] For this might have been sold for much, and given to the poor. [10]* And Jesus knowing it, said to them: Why do you trouble this woman?* for she hath wrought a good work upon me. [11] For the poor you have always with you: but me you have not always. [12] For she in pouring this ointment upon my body, hath done it for my burial. [13] Amen I say to you, wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, that also which she hath done, shall be told for a memory of her. [14] Then went one of the twelve, who was called Judas Iscariot, to the chief priests, [15] And said to them: What will you give me, and I will deliver him unto you? But they appointed him thirty pieces of silver.

I don’t think Judas thought he would be alone in his betrayal.

 

[jcrichton]

Do you think God doesn’t know the sins you or I will commit in our lifetimes? That doesn’t mean I don’t have a choice; just that He knows what choice I will make before I make it. God lives outside of time. He knows what will happen in 2,000 years, but he is not controlling what we do at this very moment. Judas had the choice not to sin, but God knew he would from the start.

Think of Fatima. Mary was able to tell all of the children where they were going after they died. One of them lived for like 80 years, but Mary still knew that she would end up in Heaven and that the one girl that they asked about would be in Purgatory until the end of time (or the world, I can’t recall exactly what they said).

I do not doubt Yahweh God’s Omnipotence and Omniscience… what I am suggesting is that for Scriptures to remain true one of the twelve had to betray Jesus; which begs the question, Jesus being God, why did He not interviene on Judas’ behalf? (Cephas, Satan has asked permission to shilft you (all the disciples) but I have prayed for you {Cephas} so when you return (repent and turn back to Christ) you may strengthen your brethren {the other Ten}.)

Further, Judas’ disbelief says volumes; yet, his inability to not carry out the plan to betray Jesus in spite of the various announcements that Jesus made speaks louder–just study the incident during the Lord’s Supper: Judas plays along with the rest of the disciples (surely it is not I) and even when Jesus reveals that the person that dunks with/reveives a morcel from Him will be the betrayer Judas is imprevious to reason, fear, or common sense. Judas, as well as St. Peter, could not but fulfill his function at the appointed time!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

To add to what I said above, think of all of the people Jesus could have chosen. I think he chose Judas because Judas would betray him. Judas was the perfect person for the part. Just like Peter. Jesus did not make do with Peter because he was the best He had; Peter was the perfect person.

Think about this: Jesus knew that Peter would deny him three times before Peter denied him once. Does that mean that Peter could have not denied him, of course he could have, but Jesus knew Peter better than Peter knew himself.

…this plays into the “predestition” theory; St. Peter would deny Jesus because Jesus had already seen the future and man is forged into a preexistence that cannot be moved/changed… since man’s heart cannot be changed, why then does the Gospel need to be preached? Why did John the Baptist preached a Baptism of Salvation? How can a sinner be Saved and be Born again? …or did you mean that only Judas and St Peter had a predisposition to not change (careful, Cephas did return {body, mind and spirit} to Jesus and became enamoured with Christ’s Passion the second the Holy Spirit hit him during Pentecost)?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Remember Judas managed the money for the whole group. There was an event that took place that made Judas believe that his actions would have the support of the majority of the other 11 diciples. Note that they didn’t make their complaint to Jesus as the italisized sentence indicates.

I don’t think Judas thought he would be alone in his betrayal.

…actually, yes; he acted alone and he conspired till the last moment against a person whom, I believe, he would have thought to have been the wrong candidate to rescue the Jewsih people from the oppressive Roman Empire.

…the absence of any sign of indignation from the other Eleven is due, from my estimate, to their inability to understand Jesus acceptance of the attention of such a sinful woman (as I understand it, a rabbi has the greatest sensibility among the religious Jews–nothing impure or perceived as impure could be touched by him or touch him); they were so cought up in the moment that they did not even notice how Jesus was shun by the very person that extended the invitation (‘when I arriaved you did not greet me the customary kiss, nor bade me sit nor cleaned my feet…’); Jesus was being judged and in the midst of it He dropped the bomb! (she has done everything you’ve not done; she has extended herself to me to the point that she has prepared me for the hour to which I’ve come–paraphrasing, of course)… embarrassment is usually demonstrated by silence or a feigned ignorance… the disciples seem to have displayed both of these traits!

Maran atha!

Angel.

 

[karebear92]

what I am suggesting is that for Scriptures to remain true one of the twelve had to betray Jesus; which begs the question, Jesus being God, why did He not interviene on Judas’ behalf? …
Further, Judas’ disbelief says volumes; yet, his inability to not carry out the plan to betray Jesus in spite of the various announcements that Jesus made speaks louder–just study the incident during the Lord’s Supper: Judas plays along with the rest of the disciples (surely it is not I) and even when Jesus reveals that the person that dunks with/reveives a morcel from Him will be the betrayer Judas is imprevious to reason, fear, or common sense. Judas, as well as St. Peter, could not but fulfill his function at the appointed time!

Maran atha!

Angel

What do you mean by, "why did He not intervene on Judas’ behalf? Like why did he not prevent Satan from entering into Judas?
I’m sorry, I might not be understanding exactly what you are trying to say. Are you saying that Judas did not have full control of himself at that time (as in during the Last Supper and afterward when he led the servants to Jesus? Sorry, I just don’t understand what you are trying to say. It is late, however, so perhaps if read it again in the morning my fresh mind will interpret it better.

…this plays into the “predestition” theory; St. Peter would deny Jesus because Jesus had already seen the future and man is forged into a preexistence that cannot be moved/changed… since man’s heart cannot be changed, why then does the Gospel need to be preached? Why did John the Baptist preached a Baptism of Salvation? How can a sinner be Saved and be Born again? …or did you mean that only Judas and St Peter had a predisposition to not change (careful, Cephas did return {body, mind and spirit} to Jesus and became enamoured with Christ’s Passion the second the Holy Spirit hit him during Pentecost)?

Maran atha!

Angel

No, I am not saying any type of “predestination”, in fact, that is the exact opposite. I was simply saying that the disciples were not picked at random and then forced to fulfill the scriptures. I am saying that Jesus chose carefully who he would pick and knew their actions: “For Jesus knew from the first who those were that did not believe, and who it was that would betray him.” (John 6:64). All I am saying is that Jesus knew what the actions of his Apostles would be. He did not control them, for they have free will, but that does not mean he did not know what their actions would be from the start. I think we are talking about two different things. I am not saying that their hearts could not change, but Jesus knew their hearts from the beginning. He did not pick Judas at random, he knew from the very beginning that Judas was the man that would betray him. We live in time and have free will as we speak. I could sin right now or in twenty minutes, but I certainly do not have to, but God knows if I will sin or not in twenty minutes.

If this doesn’t make sense, I will redo it in the morning. It is 3:30 here and I feel like my mind is a bit tired.

 

[karebear92]

Scratch the first part of my last post. Are you saying that why did Jesus not save Judas despite his betrayal? I do not believe that Judas had to betray Jesus, but that Jesus knew Judas would. He was a devil from the start. May Judas have been saved? Well, perhaps. We can not say for certain that he was not, but I wouldn’t say his odds were great, especially since he hanged himself and Jesus said “it would be better if he had never been born.” The difference between Peter and Judas, as far as we know, is that Peter repented. Judas did not take the opportunity as far as we know, but how are we to know his heart from the time he began to fall from the time he took his last breath. Why was Judas seemingly oblivious to Jesus’ statement over and over again? Well, I think it was because he didn’t truly believe or trust in Jesus. Or perhaps it was his immense arrogance. Ask yourself why Satan would have disobeyed God in the first place, he knew far more than Judas. Perhaps Judas said “Is it I, Rabbi,” because he was trying to not look suspicious, or perhaps it was almost mocking him in a way (that we don’t know). Once again it is late, in fact it is later than my last post, so it could be even more off track or incoherent. I guess I will have to see in the morning.

 

[Benadam]

…actually, yes; he acted alone and he conspired till the last moment against a person whom, I believe, he would have thought to have been the wrong candidate to rescue the Jewsih people from the oppressive Roman Empire.

I am inclined to agree.

…the absence of any sign of indignation from the other Eleven is due, from my estimate, to their inability to understand Jesus acceptance of the attention of such a sinful woman

 

[GraceSofia]

So while it is a sin to commit suicide (thou shall not kill), it is quite possible that God provided Judas with a means to repentance and Salvation through self-sacrifice …

I’ve never thought of that. Can you elaborate on this idea?

 

[GraceSofia]

Then after the morsel, Satan entered into him, “What you are going to do, do quickly.” (John 13:27) But he had already made the arrangements give Jesus to the high priests. He does this in Matthew 26:14-16

And further on is something so incredible, so mysterious:
*
“As soon as Judas had taken the bread, he went out. And it was night.
When he was gone, Jesus said, “**Now is the Son of Man glorified and God is glorified in him.” ***

I’ve always felt that the “And it was night” meant that the evil one was about.

As to the question in the OP, I have come to believe that God had Judas betray Jesus for at least this reason, if not many others:
as an example to all the believers who would come in the future, as an example to the Church, to show us that just because one disciple betrays Jesus, doesn’t mean everything Jesus taught was wrong or that the whole Church is wrong.
We will always have Judases in the Church.

 

[jcrichton]

What do you mean by, "why did He not intervene on Judas’ behalf? Like why did he not prevent Satan from entering into Judas?
I’m sorry, I might not be understanding exactly what you are trying to say. Are you saying that Judas did not have full control of himself at that time (as in during the Last Supper and afterward when he led the servants to Jesus? Sorry, I just don’t understand what you are trying to say. It is late, however, so perhaps if read it again in the morning my fresh mind will interpret it better.

I am making a comparison with the passage where Jesus lets the Disciples know that Satan asked for permission to thrash them and He told St. Peter that He prayed for him–that he would persevere so that he, in turn, would bring the others together and comfort them; did Judas have full control of himself? Yes. But I insist that he was not a true Believer; in spite of the hind-sighters, Judas could not do anything other than what he did: betray Jesus; Judas who made the fulfillment of the prophecy since prophecy required that one who lived with and had intimate experience in Jesus’ Ministry be the betrayer, had to be the one among the twelve since he lacked Faith.

Conversely, just look at the religious elite… how many of the masters of the Law joined Jesus? How many of the Synagogues leaders joined the Apostles?

Was it not Caifas that prophesied that it would be better for One Man to die for the people? The religious elite were heavier into Scriptures than most present day scholars/theologeans and they still did not allow the Holy Spirit to enlighten them… how could a runt (Judas) fare any better? How could a non-Believer comprehend who Jesus was… change his mind and heart and not proceed with his own quest of the salvific plan of the Jews?

Today we have nearly 2000 years of Faith experience (Oral and Written Traditions), the Church has established Doctrine and the Gospel is preached or read throughout the world… as the Spirit said through the prophet… “do they hear, do they Believe?”

Man still refuses to Believe… yet, we demand that Judas not betray Jesus… are we reading the Gospel according to Christ? Did He not call Cephas/Kephas a demon/devil when he suggested that Jesus not die at the Cross?

No, I am not saying any type of “predestination”, in fact, that is the exact opposite. I was simply saying that the disciples were not picked at random and then forced to fulfill the scriptures. I am saying that Jesus chose carefully who he would pick and knew their actions: “For Jesus knew from the first who those were that did not believe, and who it was that would betray him.” (John 6:64). All I am saying is that Jesus knew what the actions of his Apostles would be. He did not control them, for they have free will, but that does not mean he did not know what their actions would be from the start. I think we are talking about two different things. I am not saying that their hearts could not change, but Jesus knew their hearts from the beginning. He did not pick Judas at random, he knew from the very beginning that Judas was the man that would betray him. We live in time and have free will as we speak. I could sin right now or in twenty minutes, but I certainly do not have to, but God knows if I will sin or not in twenty minutes.

If this doesn’t make sense, I will redo it in the morning. It is 3:30 here and I feel like my mind is a bit tired.

I am not stating that you’ve said that… my suggestion is that if Judas was chosen because he would not believe and would not allow the Holy Spirit to change his mind and heart even if Jesus prayed for his conversion then that suggests that those who are born to hell will end up in hell and those who are born to Life will end up Saved… that there could never be the intercession that St Paul speaks about when he notes that we do not know how to pray as we ought but that the Holy Spirit intercedes in our behalf as He prays to the Father in the manner which God desires (a spiritual connection if you will) and it is this prayer that is heard by God… but one born to hell could not have the Holy Spirit’s intercession since that would violate the birth right or predestination… hope this clarifies it a little…

…and I am suggesting to you that since Jesus is God, He could have interceded on Judas’ behalf… but that Judas’ conversion would derail the Salvific Plan (Suffering Servant, Lamb of God, Baptism in Christ, cleansing through His Blood, Resurrection and Life…) so it was necessary for Judas to remain as he was, blinded by human will and intellect, in order for the fulfillment of Scriptures… as you have said, Jesus picked him because Jesus knew that he was the betrayer–the Salvific Plan needed one of the twelve!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Benadam]

God had revealed himself to Judas in the fullest way possible. If a person rejects God after knowing Him, what more can God do? Had Judas committed eternal sin? The Resurrection, could have that turned Judas around? Did Judas hang himself before the Resurrection?

 

[jcrichton]

Scratch the first part of my last post. Are you saying that why did Jesus not save Judas despite his betrayal? I do not believe that Judas had to betray Jesus, but that Jesus knew Judas would. He was a devil from the start. May Judas have been saved? Well, perhaps. We can not say for certain that he was not, but I wouldn’t say his odds were great, especially since he hanged himself and Jesus said “it would be better if he had never been born.” The difference between Peter and Judas, as far as we know, is that Peter repented. Judas did not take the opportunity as far as we know, but how are we to know his heart from the time he began to fall from the time he took his last breath. Why was Judas seemingly oblivious to Jesus’ statement over and over again? Well, I think it was because he didn’t truly believe or trust in Jesus. Or perhaps it was his immense arrogance. Ask yourself why Satan would have disobeyed God in the first place, he knew far more than Judas. Perhaps Judas said “Is it I, Rabbi,” because he was trying to not look suspicious, or perhaps it was almost mocking him in a way (that we don’t know). Once again it is late, in fact it is later than my last post, so it could be even more off track or incoherent. I guess I will have to see in the morning.

No. I am saying, why did Jesus did not intercede before His betrayal? …just as He did for Cephas, when Satan asked for liberties to attack the twelve, Judas could have used a mega dose of Divine intervention; yet, I insist, it had to be done–Judas had to be the betrayer since one of the Twelve had to fulfill Scriptures… Jesus’ intervension would derail the Salvific Plan.

…you provided support to my argument: Judas did not believe–how can we expect a non-Believer to seek Jesus or to understand anything that He Taught?

In contrast, there’s Cephas/Kephas–of all the Disciples and followers he could have been the most devoted to Jesus (in spite of John’s acclamation of being the one that the Lord loved most) since we find Peter always at the ready to follow and jump when the Master speaks or appears–he’s so cookoo for Christ that in spite of the many that were seeking to apprehend Jesus, St. Peter goes into action and attacks one of the temple servants…

Judas’ tell?.. a thief, a liar, an opportunist…

…and while St. Peter did not commit suicide, we can hardly compare his denial of Jesus to Judas’ betrayal; the first, in fear of his life denounces knowing Jesus (a terrible terrible acclamation) while the latter knowingly places Jesus in the hands of those seeking to murder Him… there’s no comparison!

Further, a Believer can always count on God’s Mercy, once he/she is convicted by the Holy Spirit; in contrast, a non-Believer has no awareness of the Holy Spirit and can never seek forgiveness and God’s Mercy.

…in regards to Judas’ Salvation, it is not man’s abilities that Saves him but God’s Mercy and Grace–Jesus spoke of many things one example of God’s Mercy is hidden in His waring to those who would reject the 72/12 when He sent them out into the various towns… Jesus states that for those who would reject them (the disciples) they would receive less mercy than Soddom and Ghomorrah (not sure of the spelling) at Judgment Day–God’s Mercy is beyond our abilities to comprehend.

Maran atha!

Angel