How could the human soul be immortal if it is sustained?

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Vico said:
God sustains and could cause something to no longer exist but that is not the same as to corrupt which could only occur from the thing itself, not the Creator.

S. T. I, Q75, A6, Reply to Objection 2
But a thing is said to be corruptible because there is in it a potentiality to non-existence.
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I ask a question. Would you mind to answer a yes or no? Here is the question again: Does the rational soul need a sustainer?
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SPBlitz said:
I believe that STT’s definition of immortality is something who’s cause of existence is in itself - something who doesn’t need a sustainer outside of itself. Under that definition, only God is immortal.
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No. Immortal to me simply means undying.
 
Given those specific definitions, I am inclined to believe God is the only immortal as God is the only thing that cannot cease to be.

That said, I disagree with the definition of death.
 
vz71 said:
Given those specific definitions, I am inclined to believe God is the only immortal as God is the only thing that cannot cease to be.

That said, I disagree with the definition of death.
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I am waiting for @Vico to know the definition of Aquinas.
 
STT said:
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Vico:
God sustains and could cause something to no longer exist but that is not the same as to corrupt which could only occur from the thing itself, not the Creator.

S. T. I, Q75, A6, Reply to Objection 2
But a thing is said to be corruptible because there is in it a potentiality to non-existence.
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I ask a question. Would you mind to answer a yes or no? Here is the question again: Does the rational soul need a sustainer?
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So the yes answer was given before:
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How could the human soul be immortal if it is sustained? Philosophy
Per Thomas Aquinas (ST1.75.6): if God were to cease to sustain a soul in being, it does not mean that it would perish, it does not mean it would corrupt. To corrupt means to perish, which means to go out of existence because of something in the nature of that which perishes. http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1075.htm
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STT said:
This means that the soul is mortal.
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Only if you define “mortal” to be “sustained by God”; in which case only God would be “immortal”.

That is not the common definition of “mortal” or “immortal”, however.
 
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STT said:
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vz71:
Given those specific definitions, I am inclined to believe God is the only immortal as God is the only thing that cannot cease to be.

That said, I disagree with the definition of death.
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I am waiting for @Vico to know the definition of Aquinas.
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Modern Catholic Dictionary, immortality
Freedom from death or the capacity to decay and disintegrate.
  • Absolute immortality is possessed by God alone, who has no body and whose spirit is eternal by essence. He cannot not exist; he always has been and must be.
  • Natural immortality belongs to all spiritual beings, namely the angels and human souls, who are created indeed and therefore begin, but since they are simple by nature and have no parts, they will not die, although absolutely speaking, they could be annihilated by an act of God.
  • Gratuitous immortality is a special grace, given originally by God to the ancestors of the human race and restored by Christ as a promise after the last day. It means freedom from bodily death and from separation of the soul from the human body.
 
Vico said:
Natural immortality belongs to all spiritual beings, namely the angels and human souls, who are created indeed and therefore begin, but since they are simple by nature and have no parts, they will not die, although absolutely speaking, they could be annihilated by an act of God.
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We are God if we are simple. Isn’t that true? Does Aquinas mean that God creates soul/God?
 
runningdude said:
Only if you define “mortal” to be “sustained by God”; in which case only God would be “immortal”.

That is not the common definition of “mortal” or “immortal”, however.
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By mortal I mean that the subject can go out of existence under specific circumstances, in the case of the rational soul when God doesn’t sustain it anymore.
 
STT said:
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Vico:
Natural immortality belongs to all spiritual beings, namely the angels and human souls, who are created indeed and therefore begin, but since they are simple by nature and have no parts, they will not die, although absolutely speaking, they could be annihilated by an act of God.
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We are God if we are simple. Isn’t that true? Does Aquinas mean that God creates soul/God?
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God creates the soul, and anything created is not God.
 
Vico said:
God creates the soul, and anything created is not God.
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Are we simple? According to Aquinas yes. Therefore, we are created Gods. We are different from the God who created us in the sense that we are created but we are God because we are simple.
 
STT said:
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Vico:
God creates the soul, and anything created is not God.
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Are we simple? According to Aquinas yes. Therefore, we are created Gods. We are different from the God who created us in the sense that we are created but we are God because we are simple.
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We humans are not simple: each person is composed of a soul and body. Angels are pure created spirits.

God brings beings into existence ex nihilo regardless of if those beings are simple or complex. No creatures can be created with a divine nature, for the divine is not created. In the case of Jesus Christ, the person of the Son of God assumed a human nature therefore being true God and true man. A human can become a partaker of the divine nature, Catechism:
1265 Baptism not only purifies from all sins, but also makes the neophyte “a new creature,” an adopted son of God, who has become a “partaker of the divine nature,” member of Christ and co-heir with him, and a temple of the Holy Spirit.
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STT said:
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vz71:
Ok.
What precisely is the definition of immortal that you are laying claim to?
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Never dying under any circumstances. The opposite is mortal which means can die under specific circumstances, in the case of the ration soul when God doesn’t sustain it anymore.
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I suppose the people in hell are the ones God stop sustaining, you heard the saying… “rot in hell” they are dead, but they live forever.
 
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STT said:
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I didn’t mean human person but human soul. Is human soul simple?
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Well you asked “Are we simple?” We are each body and soul together. For the human soul, the answer is that the soul has no parts, it is therefore simple, but it is not without accidents. The faculties are its proper accidents.
 
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Vico said:
Well you asked “Are we simple?” We are each body and soul together. For the human soul, the answer is that the soul has no parts, it is therefore simple, but it is not without accidents. The faculties are its proper accidents.
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I forgot what accident was. How is it related to our discussion?
 
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