How could the Jews still be waiting for the Messiah to come?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Bob67
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
B

Bob67

Guest
**
Surely the Pharisees & Scribes knew the Bible, so
How could the Jews still be waiting for the Messiah to come?

Old Testament - Prophecy written over 700 years before the Crucifixion of Christ!

Isaiah Chapter 53

1 Who would believe what we have heard? To whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
2 He grew up like a sapling before him, like a shoot from the parched earth; There was in him no stately bearing to make us look at him, nor appearance that would attract us to him.
3 He was spurned and avoided by men, a man of suffering, accustomed to infirmity, One of those from whom men hide their faces, spurned, and we held him in no esteem.
4 Yet it was our infirmities that he bore, our sufferings that he endured, While we thought of him as stricken, as one smitten by God and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our offenses, crushed for our sins, Upon him was the chastisement that makes us whole, by his stripes we were healed.
6 We had all gone astray like sheep, each following his own way; But the LORD laid upon him the guilt of us all.
7 Though he was harshly treated, he submitted and opened not his mouth; Like a lamb led to the slaughter or a sheep before the shearers, he was silent and opened not his mouth.
8 Oppressed and condemned, he was taken away, and who would have thought any more of his destiny? When he was cut off from the land of the living, and smitten for the sin of his people,
9 A grave was assigned him among the wicked and a burial place with evildoers, Though he had done no wrong nor spoken any falsehood.
10 (But the LORD was pleased to crush him in infirmity.) If he gives his life as an offering for sin, he shall see his descendants in a long life, and the will of the LORD shall be accomplished through him.
11 Because of his affliction he shall see the light in fullness of days; Through his suffering, my servant shall justify many, and their guilt he shall bear.
12 Therefore I will give him his portion among the great, and he shall divide the spoils with the mighty, Because he surrendered himself to death and was counted among the wicked; And he shall take away the sins of many, and win pardon for their offenses.**

Does anyone know of other Old Testament references to the coming of the Messiah?
I want strong references, like this one!
 
Bob67 said:
**
Surely the Pharisees & Scribes knew the Bible, so
How could the Jews still be waiting for the Messiah to come?

Old Testament - Prophecy written over 700 years before the Crucifixion of Christ!

Isaiah Chapter 53

1 Who would believe what we have heard? To whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
2 He grew up like a sapling before him, like a shoot from the parched earth; There was in him no stately bearing to make us look at him, nor appearance that would attract us to him.
3 He was spurned and avoided by men, a man of suffering, accustomed to infirmity, One of those from whom men hide their faces, spurned, and we held him in no esteem.
4 Yet it was our infirmities that he bore, our sufferings that he endured, While we thought of him as stricken, as one smitten by God and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our offenses, crushed for our sins, Upon him was the chastisement that makes us whole, by his stripes we were healed.
6 We had all gone astray like sheep, each following his own way; But the LORD laid upon him the guilt of us all.
7 Though he was harshly treated, he submitted and opened not his mouth; Like a lamb led to the slaughter or a sheep before the shearers, he was silent and opened not his mouth.
8 Oppressed and condemned, he was taken away, and who would have thought any more of his destiny? When he was cut off from the land of the living, and smitten for the sin of his people,
9 A grave was assigned him among the wicked and a burial place with evildoers, Though he had done no wrong nor spoken any falsehood.
10 (But the LORD was pleased to crush him in infirmity.) If he gives his life as an offering for sin, he shall see his descendants in a long life, and the will of the LORD shall be accomplished through him.
11 Because of his affliction he shall see the light in fullness of days; Through his suffering, my servant shall justify many, and their guilt he shall bear.
12 Therefore I will give him his portion among the great, and he shall divide the spoils with the mighty, Because he surrendered himself to death and was counted among the wicked; And he shall take away the sins of many, and win pardon for their offenses.**

Does anyone know of other Old Testament references to the coming of the Messiah?
I want strong references, like this one!
Click to expand...
Jesus Christ doesn’t fit the Messiah according to the Jews.
 
I can understand how the many Jews could of rejected Christ at that time but,
how could any real Bible Scholar today, 2,000 later,
not be able to see how everything that
was in the OT has been fulfilled in the NT?

:confused:
 
Bob67 said:
**
Surely the Pharisees & Scribes knew the Bible, so
How could the Jews still be waiting for the Messiah to come?**

You answered your question. It is because we know and knew the Bible that we are still waiting.

What name did you used to post under?
Click to expand...
 
**Does anyone know of other Old Testament references
to the coming of the Messiah?
I want strong references, like Isaiah Chapter 53.

Surely the Pharisees & Scribes knew the Bible, so
How could the Jews still be waiting for the Messiah to come?

I can understand how the many Jews could of rejected Christ at that time but,
how could any real Bible Scholar today, 2,000 later,
not be able to see how everything that
was in the OT has been fulfilled in the NT?

Old Testament - Prophecy written over 700 years before the Crucifixion of Christ!

Isaiah Chapter 53**

1 Who would believe what we have heard? To whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
2 He grew up like a sapling before him, like a shoot from the parched earth; There was in him no stately bearing to make us look at him, nor appearance that would attract us to him.
3 He was spurned and avoided by men, a man of suffering, accustomed to infirmity, One of those from whom men hide their faces, spurned, and we held him in no esteem.
4 Yet it was our infirmities that he bore, our sufferings that he endured, While we thought of him as stricken, as one smitten by God and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our offenses, crushed for our sins, Upon him was the chastisement that makes us whole, by his stripes we were healed.
6 We had all gone astray like sheep, each following his own way; But the LORD laid upon him the guilt of us all.
7 Though he was harshly treated, he submitted and opened not his mouth; Like a lamb led to the slaughter or a sheep before the shearers, he was silent and opened not his mouth.
8 Oppressed and condemned, he was taken away, and who would have thought any more of his destiny? When he was cut off from the land of the living, and smitten for the sin of his people,
9 A grave was assigned him among the wicked and a burial place with evildoers, Though he had done no wrong nor spoken any falsehood.
10 (But the LORD was pleased to crush him in infirmity.) If he gives his life as an offering for sin, he shall see his descendants in a long life, and the will of the LORD shall be accomplished through him.
11 Because of his affliction he shall see the light in fullness of days; Through his suffering, my servant shall justify many, and their guilt he shall bear.
12 Therefore I will give him his portion among the great, and he shall divide the spoils with the mighty, Because he surrendered himself to death and was counted among the wicked; And he shall take away the sins of many, and win pardon for their offenses.
 
Bob67 said:
**Does anyone know of other Old Testament references
to the coming of the Messiah?
I want strong references, like Isaiah Chapter 53.

Surely the Pharisees & Scribes knew the Bible, so
How could the Jews still be waiting for the Messiah to come?
**

You answered your question. It is because we know the bible that we are still waiting for the Messiah.
Click to expand...
 
Hi,
I believe Genesis 3:15 is the first reference to the coming Messiah.

And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring [a] and hers;
he will crush ** your head,
and you will strike his heel."

I kinda feel the same way. If any Jew read the OT prophecies and then read the NT where they were fulfilled, I dont see how they wouldnt believe that Jesus is the Messiah. :confused:**
 
Valke2 said:
You answered your question. It is because we know the bible that we are still waiting for the Messiah.
Click to expand...
Hi Valke,

Is it true that the Jews back in Jesus’s day were looking for a King to actually free them from bondage?

That is what a Jewish friend told me. Because Jesus was freeing them spiritually not physically, they didnt believe Him. Plus what Jesus was saying was such a radical change to Judaism, they just couldnt believe it to be true.

The thing is, the Pharisees had all the prophecy about the coming Messiah, so if they really did their homework(studying OT)they should have known that Christ fulfilled all prophecies concerning Him. ALL of them.👍

Im not being combative, I just want to understand. Valke you have availalbe to you the OT and the NT–so why dont you believe in Christ as the Messiah? Just curious to get a Jewish persons POV:D
 
ALLFORHIM said:
Hi Valke,

Is it true that the Jews back in Jesus’s day were looking for a King to actually free them from bondage?

That is what a Jewish friend told me. Because Jesus was freeing them spiritually not physically, they didnt believe Him. Plus what Jesus was saying was such a radical change to Judaism, they just couldnt believe it to be true.

The thing is, the Pharisees had all the prophecy about the coming Messiah, so if they really did their homework(studying OT)they should have known that Christ fulfilled all prophecies concerning Him. ALL of them.👍

Im not being combative, I just want to understand. Valke you have availalbe to you the OT and the NT–so why dont you believe in Christ as the Messiah? Just curious to get a Jewish persons POV:D
Click to expand...
Yes. It is true that Jews believe the Messiah will be a military leader and king. I understand the concept of freeing one spiritually. But I also understand that Jews did not feel they were spiritually imprisoned. We already had andhave a way to be with God. Through Torah. For 2,000 years you have been telling us that Jesus fullfilled prophecy and for 2,000 years we’ve been telling you he didn’t.

I will give a fuller answer later. I’ve put forth in detail the reasons in other threads and I’ll mostly just rehash them here. But there’s little in the Christian Bible that would lead a Jew to suspect that Jesus fullfilled any of the prophecies or that he was the Messiah, let alone God.
 
Valke2 said:
Yes. It is true that Jews believe the Messiah will be a military leader and king. I understand the concept of freeing one spiritually. But I also understand that Jews did not feel they were spiritually imprisoned. We already had andhave a way to be with God. Through Torah. For 2,000 years you have been telling us that Jesus fullfilled prophecy and for 2,000 years we’ve been telling you he didn’t.

I will give a fuller answer later. I’ve put forth in detail the reasons in other threads and I’ll mostly just rehash them here. But there’s little in the Christian Bible that would lead a Jew to suspect that Jesus fullfilled any of the prophecies or that he was the Messiah, let alone God.
Click to expand...
Thanks Valke–if you just want to give me links to where you have already posted that is fine. I dont want you to have to rewrite anything.👍
 
We are not looking for a Messiah that will be God in corporeal form. We do not believe the Messiah will be God in the flesh.

Judaism does not believe that mankind is inherently evil or sinful or in need of Divine Intervention in order to escape eternal damnation. It is within our ability to be righteous. " The word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it."

Many people wrongly believe that Judaism teaches that we are redeemed by obeying the commandments – through our deeds and acts. But this is not the case.We were redeemed at Mt. Sinai when God gave us the Torah. Our obeying the mitzvot/commandments through accepting Torah is our RESPONSE to the redemption. It is how we express our relationship with God.

So that when someone tries to convince me that I need to accept Jesus in order to be saved, they are essentially offering us a gift we have already received. And they are asking us to give up our relationship with God, which we express through the obeying of His Commandments.

As to reasons why we don’t believe Jesus was God, one reason might be the fact that in only one of the four Gospels,is it reported that Jesus himself actually proclaimed he was God. Something like this would be hard to ignore and the fact that it isn’t mentioned in the other three Gospels is suspect to me.
 
As for what we exepect the Messiah to do:
  1. gather all Jews to Israel.
  2. Usher in an era of peace throughout the world.
  3. Rebuild the Temple
  4. all the world will worship the one God.
  5. He the Jewish people will observe the mitzvot (something that, as Jews for Judaism points out Christianity discourages)
 
Bob67 said:
I can understand how the many Jews could of rejected Christ at that time but,
how could any real Bible Scholar today, 2,000 later,
not be able to see how everything that
was in the OT has been fulfilled in the NT?

:confused:
Click to expand...
Talk to an Orothodox Jew and they can explain. It is quite easy as the Messiah they expected does not fit the Christ. And he was never to be a God of any sort or die for our sins.
 
Given that its Easter Sunday, I should put a more positive spin on all this.

It cannot be denied that Christianity has spread monothesim far more effectively than Judaism ever could, given that our beliefs, while we hope can and will be held up as a light unto all nations, are such that it is not reasonable to assume that Judaism would ever appeal to the majority of people.

In that sense, we can look at Torah as the tree that bears the fruits of both Judaism and Christianity. As someone who doesn’t mind paradox, I think that there is no doubt that Judaism is correct in rejecting Jesus as the Messiah or God. And I have no doubt that Christianity is correct in embracing Jesus as the Messiah and God.

Judaism acknowledges that God has other covenenants with other nations. I know some Christians are fond of saying that Jesus is the only way to God. But I was listening to a radio show today that was quoting some Christian scripture and the preacher mentioned the verse: “There are many mansions in my fahter’s house” (hope the quote is correct). I don’t know what the CHurch and commentators take this to mean but it seems to me that it can be viewed as an acknowledgment for those outside of Christianity, there remain ways to be with God.
 
From the opening post.

“How could the Jews still be waiting for the Messiah to come?”

It could be as simple as that they hold that the messiah has not
yet appeared among men.

The question may be turned about.
What makes Christians hold that the Messiah has come?
How could they possibly believe that?

Belief in Jesus of Nazareth as Messiah, Son of God,
is a matter of faith, not simple assertion.

It was estimated that the world population rose to 6.5 billion in 2006.
Christians of all denominations were estimated to be 2.1 billion.

2.1/6.5 = 32%

This means that for every person who accepts Jesus as messiah,
there are 2 people who do not acknowledge same. The ratio is
one in three.

Given this rough statistic, shouldn’t the question be turned around?

68% of the world’s population does not accept Christ as the Son of God.

And while “numbers” don’t, of necessity, indicate the truth of an
assertion , I do find it somewhat risible that the question
posed is Why do they not believe? when perhaps
the task of Christians is to “explain” - to the other
two-thirds of the human beings on the planet - why
they* do* believe that Jesus of Nazareth was/is the
anointed of God?

reen12 :coffee:
 
reen12 said:
From a Judaic website. Why Jesus is not accepted as
Messiah.

aish.com/spirituality/philosophy/Why_Dont_Jews_Believe_In_Jesus$.asp

reen12 :coffee:
Click to expand...
I read this and it is a very good article. But I’m still not sure what the Jewish messiah will do. Will he rule only Isreal? Or will Isreal rule the world?

How do Catholic moral teachings stack up to those of the most traditional or strict Jewish moral teachings?

Things like marriage, birth control, abortion, euthanasia, cloning, embrionic stem cell research, homosexualality, and soforth?
 
quote: mark a
I read this and it is a very good article. But I’m still not sure what the Jewish messiah will do. Will he rule only Isreal? Or will Isreal rule the world?
Click to expand...
Fine questions all, I think, mark a.

I spent some time on www.aish.com and was able
to increase my knowledge. The www.chabad.org
website has a section “library” which contains fine
material, as well as a collection of Hasidic tales
many of which are quite beautiful.

chabad.org/library/article.asp?AID=6588

I do recall reading material on what the Messiah would
accomplish, and I will try to locate that information for you.

reen12
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top