How could the Reformation be of God?

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SingleMomMonica said:
Birth Control is not mentioned specifically by Jesus nor mentioned in the Bible; however, the blessings of children & curse of childlessness is. All marital acts between husband and wife should be open to new life and the spouses should separate for times of deeper prayer/fasting as described in the New Testament - this equates to about 50% of the year. The regular abstinence alone reduces the likelihood of pregnancy. Couples experiencing marital difficulty can meet with their Spiritual Father to see if intentional spacing of children may be permissible to them by use of non-abortive forms of birth control such as NFP.
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Just NFP?

Genesis 38:7-10 Birth Control mentioned in the Holy Bible

Juda, therefore said to Onan his son: Go in to thy brother’s wife and marry her, that thou mayst raise seed to thy brother. 9 He knowing that the children should not be his, when he went in to his brother’s wife, spilled his seed upon the ground, lest children should be born in his brother’s name. 10 And therefore the Lord slew him, because he did a detestable thing.

Onan was slew not for sleeping with his brother’s wife but because he was guilty of using birth control.
 
Hiskid1973 said:
Every time I read something like this these verses from Ephesians comes to my mind…
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
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Every time I read something like this verse "Christ said to Peter; “On you I will build my church.” I think about the importance of St. Peter.
Christ did not say Aruis, Calvin, or Thomas Munster on you I will build my church.
 
Sword_Brethren said:
Every time I read something like this verse "Christ said to Peter; “On you I will build my church.” I think about the importantance of St. Peter.
Christ did not say Aruis, Calvin, or Thomas Munster on you I will build my church.
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I’m sure that even the reformation is actually mentioned in the bible?
 
Kirk_O said:
It just couldn’t be. Why would He want all of this disunity? There are over 30,000 different denominations. I can only see Satan wanting this. I am not saying that the Protestants are following Satan because they are God fearing individuals. But they all have this hidden hunger for unity. Why is that? Could it be of the Holy Spirit? He is calling them to unite, but they will not find peace without the Church
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Kirk, there are not 30,000 protestant faiths. I challenge you to even name 1/3 of this number. This is a gross exaggeration being sprouted via the internet and nobody has bothered to do their homework. If you did, you would see that this figure is not Protestants alone but includes Roman Catholics, Greek Orthodox, and all the other faiths, christian and pseudo christians.

You say the Reformation could not be of God. What did the reformers want Kirk? They wanted reform; not to start a new faith. They wanted to go back to the beginning where it all started with the simple teachings of Jesus Christ. They wanted to go back to the Holy Scriptures. Protestants are not a “new” faith, but they go back to the Bible. Thanks to these courageous men, some of whom were executed, who sought reform, the English Bible you have was made possible.The catholic church was rife with abuses. Sale of indulgences, power and wealth. People were forced to join the church or else face persecution. Do the research. They had no Bible. Could not read latin and thus were ignorant. How could that be of God?
 
Zundrah said:
And exactly what do you mean?
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I went back to see if what I wrote was just a string of nonsensical words, but it seems pretty clear. And it [the church] was constructed - in the first century. Which part is throwing you off?
 
JacobG said:
Kirk, there are not 30,000 protestant faiths. I challenge you to even name 1/3 of this number. This is a gross exaggeration being sprouted via the internet and nobody has bothered to do their homework. If you did, you would see that this figure is not Protestants alone but includes Roman Catholics, Greek Orthodox, and all the other faiths, christian and pseudo christians.
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These numbers that get thrown around by Catholics are always quite ridiculous, although that is not to say that there are not quite a few distinct protestant faiths. The only way they reach these numbers is by making 1st Baptist and 2nd Baptist church two different denominations, even if they both hold to the Southern Baptist Convention.
You say the Reformation could not be of God. What did the reformers want Kirk? They wanted reform; not to start a new faith. They wanted to go back to the beginning where it all started with the simple teachings of Jesus Christ. They wanted to go back to the Holy Scriptures. Protestants are not a “new” faith, but they go back to the Bible. Thanks to these courageous men, some of whom were executed, who sought reform, the English Bible you have was made possible.The catholic church was rife with abuses. Sale of indulgences, power and wealth. People were forced to join the church or else face persecution. Do the research. They had no Bible. Could not read latin and thus were ignorant. How could that be of God?
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ckempston said:
I went back to see if what I wrote was just a string of nonsensical words, but it seems pretty clear. And it [the church] was constructed - in the first century. Which part is throwing you off?
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You and no one else can state exactly “when” the church was “done” establishing itself! That was my point.
 
JacobG said:
“new”
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faith, but they go back to the Bible. Thanks to these courageous men, some of whom were executed, who sought reform, the English Bible you have was made possible.The catholic church was rife with abuses. Sale of indulgences, power and wealth. People were forced to join the church or else face persecution. Do the research. They had no Bible. Could not read latin and thus were ignorant. How could that be of God?

Waitil we see some hard times and persecution all around…You’l see the real church bond together…
 
Okay, the Reformers actually felt they had a reason to leave the Catholic church. One because of marriage, and the others because of various issues with doctrine and how it was applied and by Whom. Now regardless of the reason I would like for us all to remember one thing. Specifically a Biblical passage.

John chapter 10 Verse 16. The Good Shepherd
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I have other sheep that do not belong to this fold.  These also I must lead, and they will hear my voice, and there will be one flock, one shepherd.
I bring up this passage because I think the alot of people are making issues for placing one tradition over another. This ironically is nothing new its been going on since religion began. Even though the Catholic Church was the first of the Christian churches and thus holds a special place as the oldest Tradition. One should consider that whether you are a Cradle Catholic, a Baptist, Lutheran, Anglican, or any other tradition of Christianity. Please remember regardless of differences in Liturgy or worship, that we are Christian. We all follow…the good shepherd.
 
gmcbroom said:
John chapter 10 Verse 16. The Good Shepherd
Code: 
I have other sheep that do not belong to this fold.  These also I must lead, and they will hear my voice, and there will be one flock, one shepherd.
I bring up this passage because I think the alot of people are making issues for placing one tradition over another. This ironically is nothing new its been going on since religion began. Even though the Catholic Church was the first of the Christian churches and thus holds a special place as the oldest Tradition. One should consider that whether you are a Cradle Catholic, a Baptist, Lutheran, Anglican, or any other tradition of Christianity. Please remember regardless of differences in Liturgy or worship, that we are Christian. We all follow…the good shepherd.
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I always thought this was in reference to the gentiles since he first went to the jews…Either way He still is the Shepard of all…When I heard Catholic or Orthodox comments about the “true” church I think of John asking Jesus about another group ministering in His name…They aren’t part of our group…He said if their not against us their for us…
 
Sword_Brethren said:
Just NFP?

Genesis 38:7-10 Birth Control mentioned in the Holy Bible

Juda, therefore said to Onan his son: Go in to thy brother’s wife and marry her, that thou mayst raise seed to thy brother. 9 He knowing that the children should not be his, when he went in to his brother’s wife, spilled his seed upon the ground, lest children should be born in his brother’s name. 10 And therefore the Lord slew him, because he did a detestable thing.

Onan was slew not for sleeping with his brother’s wife but because he was guilty of using birth control.
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Failure to fullfill his duty - obey God’s command that His people were to, in the event that a brother dies without giving children to his wife, hand the widow over to the next brother in line for him to have children with her to be seen as the deceased’s children - this was the reason Onan was killed by God. He was greedy in wanting all of his biological children to be seen by all to be his, not for any of them to be seen as his brother’s. His greed/selfishness & disobedience was a “detestable” thing.

Just like when God refused to accept Cain’s sacrifice and he accepted Abel’s sacrifice. It was not because of Cain’s action that God rejected his sacrifice, but what was in his heart - his greed and selfishness.
 
Sword_Brethren said:
Wrong and false teaching.
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I can’t believe this…I quoted the very words of the Bible, even the words of Jesus, Himself & YOU consider THAT False Teaching!

If Christ was in front of you speaking out loud the same words He said as recording in the Bible verses I listed, would you dare to call His own teachings false! WOW! You may want to rethink your position.
 
Sword_Brethren said:
“Whosoever shall put away his wife and marry another, committeth adultery against her. And if the wife shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery” (Mark, x, 11, 12.—Cf. Matt., xix, 9; Luke, xvi, 18).
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Okay, now with the above quoted verse - you have moved away from the discussion of divorce and moved on to another topic…the topic of Remarriage. That is another issue all together. I have heard that it is common for people to immediately jump to another subject when they cannot adequately respond to the one at hand. Your above post is a perfect example that it is true.
 
JacobG said:
You say the Reformation could not be of God. What did the reformers want Kirk? They wanted reform; not to start a new faith. They wanted to go back to the beginning where it all started with the simple teachings of Jesus Christ. They wanted to go back to the Holy Scriptures. Protestants are not a “new” faith, but they go back to the Bible.Thanks to these courageous men, some of whom were executed, who sought reform, the English Bible you have was made possible.The catholic church was rife with abuses. Sale of indulgences, power and wealth. People were forced to join the church or else face persecution. Do the research. They had no Bible. Could not read latin and thus were ignorant. How could that be of God?
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Somebody’s been brainwashed.
 
Kirk_O said:
It just couldn’t be. Why would He want all of this disunity? There are over 30,000 different denominations. I can only see Satan wanting this. I am not saying that the Protestants are following Satan because they are God fearing individuals. But they all have this hidden hunger for unity. Why is that? Could it be of the Holy Spirit? He is calling them to unite, but they will not find peace without the Church
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How could Rome breaking from the Eastern Patriarchs be of God?
 
JonNC said:
Let’s say 30,002 communions, if we include Rome and, collectively, Orthodoxy.
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Eastern Christianity is not of one tradition/communion, it is of 3. The EOC, the OOC, and the ACE.
 
SingleMomMonica said:
In my opinion, they should have become Orthodox
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Some of them tried with the Patriarch of Constantinople but wouldn’t give up some of their heretical beliefs and the Patriarch wouldn’t put up with their stubbornness any longer.
 
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