How could the universe and life come into existence without God? How could life evolve without God?

[Noose001]

Engineered? Who engineered it? Where? When? Show us your evidence, or admit you don’t have any by avoiding.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/02/aquarium-accident-may-have-given-crayfish-dna-take-over-world

Not evidence but doesn’t line up well with evolution either

 

[o_mlly]

Yes. We have the genetics; effectively a paternity and maternity test. See Lyko (2018) .

Nope. Frank doesn’t say he has such evidence that ma and pa slough begot marble.

 

[rossum]

Not evidence but doesn’t line up well with evolution either

So, “engineered” equates to “accident”. Hmmm… Better be careful the next time you cross a bridge.

 

[Noose001]

So, “engineered” equates to “accident”. Hmmm… Better be careful the next time you cross a bridge.

Engineered as in it didn’t happen in the wild, more like the many dog varieties, nothing wrong with the word.

So can i assume you’ve chosen option 2 (Organisms at some point in time brought forth offspring of a different species than their own) as the model which evolution works with?

 

[o_mlly]

Show us your evidence, or admit you don’t have any by avoiding.

I call Rossum’s Rule on Rossum. Got actual evidence for that claim?

I am still eagerly awaiting your actual evidence that ma and pa slough begot miss marble.

 

[AlNg]

We know from basic logic that one thing cannot be both eternal and non-eternal.

We Do? Where does it say in the laws of logic that something cannot be partly eternal and partly non-eternal?

The cause of space and time must exist outside space and time.

Why does that have to be so?

The simpler the formula, the more likely it is to be true.

I don’t see that. Newton’s law of gravity is given by a formula much simpler than Einstein’s GR equations, and yet Einstein’s GR equations are more accurate.

 

[Pattylt]

This is about 12 minutes that explain the evidences of evolution of species. It’s worth the time to watch if you want to know how the evidences are used.

 

[AlNg]

if matter simply does not exist, there is no time,

I thought that our souls went to Purgatory and spent time there, even though matter does not exist in Purgatory?

. Unfortunately, on the side of some scientists, there is a psychological refusal to accept that science is at its foundation really a philosophical theory.

I guess that is because theory based on repeatable experiments has turned out to be more useful and accurate than theory based on armchair speculation.

I refer you to your own evidence that these things happened without Zeus. Simply replace “Zeus” in your evidence with “God”. You do have sufficient evidence that these things happened without Zeus, don’t you?

Throughout history people have given different names and different properties to an all Powerful Being overlooking the universe.

 

[stoplooklisten]

The fossil record shows every species shows up suddenly, remains complete static (no change) throughout its stay in the fossil record, and then disappears suddenly. Yes, there is a history to life in the fossil record. Yes, different fossils are found in different layers. But, the fossil record does not show transitions.

Back to that single-cell amoeba with a complex structure and genome, how could it develop without God? How could it develop incrementally (like a few percentage points at a time)? Science doesn’t show abiogenesis. Not even once. Even if life could develop from “primordial soup”, where would the “soup” come from or the earth to hold the “soup”? Another explanation (God the Creator) is needed.

Evangelizing for evolution seems like it exists in opposition to evangelizing for the Creator God, the Alpha and Omega of earthly existence.

 

[o_mlly]

Why does that have to be so?

Self-evident.

I don’t see that. Newton’s law of gravity is given by a formula much simpler than Einstein’s GR equations, and yet Einstein’s GR equations are more accurate.

That’s OK. You will. We are not finished reworking those equations.

 

[AlNg]

The scientific method excludes the non-quantifiable.

Architecture is the science of designing and constructing buildings and it includes non-quantifiable factors such as style, culture and beauty.

Self-evident.

i don’t think so.

 

[rossum]

I am still eagerly awaiting your actual evidence that ma and pa slough begot miss marble.

I am still eagerly awaiting the time when you learn to use Google Science to find scientific papers: Vogt et al (2015).

You need to remember that science has the evidence.

To repeat my earlier question to you:

I eagerly await your similar evidence of any deity creating a new species without using evolution.

Where is your evidence?

 

[rossum]

We Do? Where does it say in the laws of logic that something cannot be partly eternal and partly non-eternal?

Then it is not one thing, but a compound of two or more separate parts. A chessboard is both black and not-black because it is a compound of black squares and not-black squares.

In the case of eternal and non-eternal, then we also have a compound: an eternal part and a non-eternal part.

 

[AlNg]

understand that Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism.

Jews do not understand that to be true.

The Bible is composed of literary genres which often uses figurative language

And Christians disagree on what is symbolic and what is literal. According to the World Christian encyclopedia and according to posters here on CAF, there are more than 35000 different Christian religions all teaching different things.

 

[o_mlly]

o_mlly:

I am still eagerly awaiting your actual evidence that ma and pa slough begot miss marble.

I am still eagerly awaiting the time when you learn to use Google Science to find scientific papers: Vogt et al (2015) .

And that would be strike two. Please stop linking to articles that do not support what you claim; it’s unscientific to do so.

You need to remember that science has the evidence.

Yes, but you apparently do not have the evidence.

To repeat my earlier question to you:

rossum:

I eagerly await your similar evidence of any deity creating a new species without using evolution.

Where is your evidence?

I never claimed that. And if I did, I would claim it as a belief. So should you with your unscientific claims.

 

[Gab123]

there are more than 35000 different Christian religions all teaching different things.

The multiplicity of Protestant Christianity is based on the 16th century heresy of Sola Scriptura. Jesus did not hand out Bibles, He founded a Church and gave authority to His Church to teach in His name throughout the ages: One Church for all peoples. Thus the word “Catholic simply means Universal. One Teaching, One Faith,One authority.

Jews do not understand that to be true.

1st century Jews did understand that Jesus was the messiah; in fact, after the resurrection thousands of Jews converted. In Acts 2:41 3,000 converted in a single day after Peter preached, and there were so many conversions that Peter and John were brought before the Sanhedrin and ordered to stop preaching. Acts 4 describes 5,000 conversions, and after Paul had his own dramatic conversion on the way to Damascus, he began preaching to the Jews and entire towns began to convert, such as the Bereans in Acts 17:11. Even Jewish priests converted. The first Christians were Jews.

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What is known as Judaism today is not the same religion of 1st century Judaism. The Jewish religion at the time of Jesus revolved around Temple worship, the priesthood and animal sacrifice. After the temple was destroyed in 70 AD, (fulfilling Christ’s prophecy of its destruction), the Jews were scattered. In the wake of so many Jews converting to Christianity, which was pleading like wildfire, a group of Pharisees got together in the year 90AD at the council of Jamnia to try to make sense of how to go forward without temple sacrifice, and how to stop Jews from converting to Jesus Christ. That was the birth of what is known as rabbinic Judaism, which is the Talmud. The 1st century Jewish religion ceased to exist in the 1st century with the destruction of the temple by the Romans.
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The Talmud is a collection of writings which besmirches and blasphemes Christ and steers Jews away from Christianity. Among the nuggets of ungodly wisdom are accusations that Jesus was a sorcerer, and is in hell stewing in a stew of excrement (I hate to even write it). Reading the Talmud one can sense a dramatic difference than when reading the Old Testament inspired writings. Rabbinic Judaism is a man-made religion dating back to 90 AD, and the reason why Protestant Bibles only have 66 books instead of the complete 73 as found in the Catholic Bible, is because Martin Luther based his cannon of scripture on what 16th century European Jews used, not knowing that at Jamnia in 90AD the Pharisees had done away with the Septuagint, which included the Book of Wisdom, which has the shocking prophecy of the suffering messiah. (Wisdom 2:12-20) that converts were pointing to as a clear prophecy of Christ.

While Christianity fulfilled the Judaism of the Torah and the prophets, the Pharisees went on to start a new religion. Jewish convert Roy Schoeman has a good presentation about it here:

 

[rossum]

And that would be strike two. Please stop linking to articles that do not support what you claim; it’s unscientific to do so.

Did you even bother to read the link? This is from the second paragraph of the paper:

By comparison of morphological traits and molecular markers, Martin et al. (2010) have identified the sexually reproducing slough crayfish Procambarus fallax from Florida and southern Georgia as the mother species of marbled crayfish.

What do you think “mother species” means there?

If you want any scientific credibility then you need to read the references.

I also note that you have no evidence of any deity creating a species without using evolution. Why then do you object to evolution?

 

[rossum]

Here is the Jewish point of view on the question: Why Jews Don’t Believe In Jesus.

 

[Gab123]

Here is the Jewish point of view on the question

There is a big movement in Israel today called Israel One, founded, organized and run by Jewish converts to Christ and they do a good job explaining how Talmudic Judaism and rabbis have steered Jews away from Christ.

Just as the famous OJ Simpson defense dream team was able to “debunk” and spin and dismiss all the overwhelming evidence against their client, the evidence is still overwhelming. Some simply refuse to believe the evidence.
Here is a sample of their apologetics addressing the rabbis directly:

 

[AlNg]

Even Jewish priests converted.

In recent times, Catholic priests have converted to Judaism.