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Gab123
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A conversion to Judaism today would be a conversion to Talmudic Judaism. The video above does a good job at explaining why the Talmud is not trustworthy
How could the universe and life come into existence without God? How could life evolve without God?
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AlNg
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It doesn’t matter what someone thinks about the Talmud. You say that Jews have converted to Christianity. It goes both ways because in recent times there have been Catholic clergy and lay people who have converted to Judaism.
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Gab123
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Yes. I also heard of people converting to Satanism. One has to go where the evidence is. Either Christ was a liar and crazy, or he was speaking the truth about who He is… Jesus Christ entered history with such an impact that history was split in two, and even the year we live in is based on His entering the world, And one need only listen to the thousands of near death experiences of people from all walks of life getting so close to death that they got a glimpse of the other side, and they overwhelmingly point to Jesus. But it is the hundreds of prophecies fulfilled by Christ, the Sri=inning miracles witnessed by thousands and his own resurrection from the dead that is a witness to the truth of Christ. Archbishop Sheen does a good job lining up all the claimants of religion in this brief talk here:
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AlNg
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Hundreds of millions of Muslims say Jesus was a prophet but not divine. Similar with JW and Arians.
This is irrelevant. Recent Catholic Popes have show great respect toward Judaism.
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Gab123
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Islam is an offshoot of a 7th century Christian heresy, thus the Koran speaks about Adam and Eve, Moses, Jesus and even they have a reverence for Mary the Mother of Jesus. but Islam is based on what one man claimed had happened to him in a cave. no witnesses, just his claim. interestingly, he first believed that the devil had appeared to him but his uncle convinced him it must have been the angel Gabriel. Unlike Christ, Islam’s founder never performed miracles, and the only prophecy he fulfilled was the one which Christ made about the coming false prophets.
Yes. And rightly so. The Church teaches that before the Second Coming of Christ right before the end of the world there will be a massive conversion of Jews to Jesus Christ. This is rooted in what St. Paul said, about how in the end all of Israel will be saved:
I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way all Israel will be saved…” Romans 11:25-26
Thus the Church realizes that the hardening hearts of the 1st century Jewish leaders who rejected Christ Is part of God’s Divine Plan. And I think we are beginning to see this conversion starting, when we hear Roy Schoeman’s dramatic conversion story as well as what is happening in Israel today with the One for Israel movement. here’s Roy’s story:
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Freddy
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I’m afraid that your only argument as to claiming the science is not viable is not that you have started with any evidence whatsoever and reached a conclusion. It’s that you have started with the biblically mandated conclusion that the planet is a few thousand years old and then have rejected anything that contradicts that position.Freddy:
No, there would not be much point except that your details are your hypothesis. I merely demonstrate the smoke and mirrors that underpin your claim take you out of the realm of science. It’s OK for you to take a leap of faith but not OK to portray your beliefs as science facts.
Why do you bother arguing with the details of something you think is impossible? Yet you do. And amazingly enough will do your very best not to admit why you think it’s impossible.
It’s the oddest of positions.
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Noose001
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I’m still wondering, is this how speciation happens? Is it the model that evolution works with that at some point in time, parent(s) had offspring of a different species?
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Eric_Hyom
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Can I respectfully ask please that we try and leave God and religion out of this thread.
Your beliefs deserve a thread of their own.
Blessings,
Eric
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rossum
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That can happen. Otherwise two populations can just drift apart when they are physically separated and unable to interbreed for geographical reasons, and eventually incompatible variations appear in the two separated populations. Research “allopatric speciation” and “sympatric speciation” for more details than I can fit in a post here.
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Noose001
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No it can’t happen especially for organisms with sexual reproduction.
Geographical separation doesn’t answer the question at hand. Even in their new geographical location, does a parent bring forth a different species or is it the geographic separation that cause a new species?
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rossum
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Geographical separation and different random mutations on either side of the geographical divide.
Italian and Spanish were once both Latin under the Roman Empire. Each area accumulated different changes in their original single language until they were recognisably different. At no point did parents speak Latin while children spoke Spanish or Italian. The change was gradual, but there were different sets of small changes in the two geographical locations.
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Noose001
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Except languages are acquired through learning and not mutations followed by natural selection. New languages can easily develop within a population without there being any separation, it’s about learning.
A bacterial species in Europe is still the same species in Australia after 100s of millions of observable generations. How come?
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o_mlly
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? The quote does not support your claim; it merely references a different document.
Did you not bother to read that source document? Here’s the weak conclusion from Martin et al (2010).
Doesn’t say what you claim. “Cannot be excluded” does not translate “must be included” and your claim remains purely speculative, i.e., without actual evidence. Sounds familiar.
Your claim was instant speciation from parent to offspring is evidenced in the marbled crayfish. To wit:
So far, you’ve provided no evidence to support the claim. You should take your own advice:Noose001:
Correct. See the Marbled Crayfish, which I have posted here before. Its parents reproduced sexually; it reproduces asexually. Hence it is unable to reproduce with its parents.
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o_mlly
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I must interrupt your post and point out a fatal flaw. Science is quite viable. It’s Fred’s pretend science that I criticize.
When logically cornered, going back to the atheist’s playbook is your apparent knee-jerk reaction. Is that Atheist Rule #1 again? “Look, he’s a Christian”. Please defer to the OP’s many legitimate requests to explore the topic w/o invoking God.
Defend your claim against Rossum’s Rule. Show us some actual evidence instead of your dream world speculations.
Is that you, Fred?
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Nice leisure suit.
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stoplooklisten
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Regardless of the chronology for the past history of human life, there is still the issue of the future which science can’t test. The fossil record appears to show “punctuated equilibrium” rather than gradual change. Yes, it would be nice to know the true history of earth and humanity. I think that the Biblical account is likely to be more literally true than we can easily explain now but there may be some typology and figurative language in there also. Still, what does it matter?
What seems to matter more are questions like these. Will there be justice? Will there be mercy? Will there be a Divine Jesus to whom we must give account? Will there be eternity? Will there be heaven and hell? What will be the attributes of each? Who will be greatest in the kingdom of heaven? Who will be least? Are there greater and lesser degrees of status in that other dark place? These things are worth considering.
What seems to matter more are questions like these. Will there be justice? Will there be mercy? Will there be a Divine Jesus to whom we must give account? Will there be eternity? Will there be heaven and hell? What will be the attributes of each? Who will be greatest in the kingdom of heaven? Who will be least? Are there greater and lesser degrees of status in that other dark place? These things are worth considering.
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stoplooklisten
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More questions would be:
- Are there metaphysical and supernatural realities beyond the physical and natural realities that we can observe?
- Are there supernatural gifts and graces available through the one, holy, apostolic, Catholic Church?
- Is there a Redeemer, Jesus Christ, God’s Son? Is there a Holy Spirit? Is there a Father in heaven? How best do we understand the Trinity?
- How do we avail ourselves of the means of grace to achieve the best eternal outcome?
- How do we give love and mercy to others? How do we receive love and mercy from God?
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rossum
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Yes. The two cannot interbreed. One species is parthenogenic and the other reproduces sexually. They are separate species.
Their DNA is evidence (not proof) that the one descended from the other. If you want proof then stick to mathematics. Science does evidence, not proof. It can do disproof, but not proof.
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rossum
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Nah. I always preferred the Shadows: Apache.
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Freddy
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You need to read the posts more carefully. I was referring to ‘the’ science…of evolution. Which you deny. And I must point out again that you deny it because none of it fits with your view of a young earth.Freddy:
I must interrupt your post and point out a fatal flaw. Science is quite viable.
Any science that doesn’t need to squeeze into a few thousand years worth of planetary existence is presumably fine. Anything more than that - well that contradicts your literal reading of scripture so must be denied for that very reason.
I really haven’t met anyone with such a strong conviction yet who will refuse to admit to it. It honestly is the wierdest position in regard to fundamentalist belief systems that I have ever encountered.
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Freddy
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Darn it, I had all their singles. I was a bit white bread until prog rock and the blues came calling.
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