How could the universe and life come into existence without God? How could life evolve without God?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Eric_Hyom
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Eric_Hyom said:
40.png
Freddy:
The fact that you could have started such a thread as this has me perplexed. Because what other answer could you have possibly envisaged?
Click to expand...
I have often been told that if you believe in God, then you carry the burden of proof. This thread places the burden on those who say there is no God.

The best answers to how did the universe come to be without God is; " I don’t know". Likewise for abiogenesis. So that just leaves evolution. how could it happen without God.

I can understand how chemical changes in the oceans could form shell and bone in a natural way, no problem. But I struggle to understand how the intricate workings of a vertebrata could evolve purely by natural means. Same goes with the eye lens.
Click to expand...
Nobody is using evolution to deny God. And the fact that you struggle to understand how evolution happened is simply that. No more.
 
Eric_Hyom said:
40.png
Freddy:
Nobody is using evolution to deny God.
Click to expand...
Not directly.
Freddy said:
And the fact that you struggle to understand how evolution happened is simply that. No more.
Click to expand...
I understand how evolution could happen. What I struggle to understand is; how could it happen purely through natural causes and without God?
Click to expand...
Or indirectly.

And we see no evidence of anything supernatural in the process. So that indicates it’s…natural. If you want to say that God organised it all or is controlling it or is involved directly or indirectly, then fine.
 
Freddy said:
And we see no evidence of anything supernatural in the process.
Click to expand...
And we see no evidence of anything natural in the process.

Theists have an advantage over atheists in this thread. If science has actual evidence of the atheists’ claims, theists will be persuaded and our worldview remains intact. God could have used secondary causes.

However, as the thread has shown, the atheists have no actual evidence. Rather than admit the lack of science to underpin their speculations, they deflect.

Theists understand that the atheist, having no actual evidence, must deflect in order to desperately try to hold onto a mantle of science instead of admitting their claims are nothing more than mere speculation. Otherwise, the atheist worldview collapses.

In the matter of first things, theists know that science bumps into, as PattyIy put it, a “wall of ignorance” as their is no natural process that can explain “something from nothing”.
 
o_mlly said:
And we see no evidence of anything natural in the process.
Click to expand...
Your sources are lying to you. We see plenty of evidence of natural chemical reactions. Why do you believe sources that lie to you?
Theists have an advantage over atheists in this thread. If science has actual evidence of the atheists’ claims, theists will be persuaded and our worldview remains intact. God could have used secondary causes.
Click to expand...
Polytheists have an advantage – they do not have to disprove the existence of any gods. Monotheists are in almost the same position as atheists; they agree with the atheist position on 99.9% of gods, they just disagree about one God.

Do you have definitive evidence that Vishnu, for example, does not exist? With respect to Vishnu, you are in the same position as an atheist.
 
rossum said:
Do you have definitive evidence that Vishnu, for example, does not exist?
Click to expand...
The Catholics have saints like Mother Theresa and many more. The lives of the Catholic saints are a fruit testifying to the veracity of the God we worship and serve.
 
rossum said:
Your sources are lying to you. We see plenty of evidence of natural chemical reactions. Why do you believe sources that lie to you?
Click to expand...
Please stop sounding so desperate.

My sources are the atheists on this thread. You ought not call them liars; they just do not have any actual evidence, as you require, to support their claims as science.
rossum said:
Polytheists have an advantage – they do not have to disprove the existence of any gods. Monotheists are in almost the same position as atheists; they agree with the atheist position on 99.9% of gods, they just disagree about one God.
Click to expand...
Do you have a point in the above relative to the thread? The OP has repeatedly reminded posters that the thread is not about God or gods.
 
o_mlly said:
In the matter of first things, theists know that science bumps into, as PattyIy put it, a “wall of ignorance” as their is no natural process that can explain “something from nothing”.
Click to expand...
Well, nothing older than a few thousand years.
 
o_mlly said:
40.png
Freddy:
Well, nothing older than a few thousand years.
Click to expand...
Well, nothing in 475 posts.

You’ve already been called out on that YEC deflection; you’re just wasting our time.
Click to expand...
I’m doing my best not to waste it by discussing science and a 4.7 billion year old planet with you.
 
Freddy said:
I’m doing my best not to waste it by discussing science and a 4.7 billion year old planet with you.
Click to expand...
Are your referring to your rabbit-not-in-the-rock claim? Sorry, to repeat: no evidence is not actual evidence.
 
o_mlly said:
My sources are the atheists on this thread.
Click to expand...
No they are not. The atheists on this thread are giving you evidence of how evolution happens naturally, and the evidence science has so far of abiogenesis occurring naturally.

I note that you have not provided any support for your belief that Vishnu does not exist.
 
rossum said:
The atheists on this thread are giving you evidence of how evolution happens naturally, and the evidence science has so far of abiogenesis occurring naturally.
Click to expand...
No, no one has any actual evidence, just speculations. Speculations are fine, but they cannot be cloaked as science without an actual observation (as per Rossum and Michaelangelo).
rossum said:
I note that you have not provided any support for your belief that Vishnu does not exist.
Click to expand...
Vishnu has nothing to do with this thread. Why do you keep trying to deflect?
 
o_mlly said:
Vishnu has nothing to do with this thread. Why do you keep trying to deflect?
Click to expand...
I am not deflecting. If Vishnu created the universe and material life on earth, then God did not do it. If you want to show that God did it, then you have to show that no other deity did it: Allah, Vishnu, Amaterasu etc.
 
Freddy said:
And we see no evidence of anything supernatural in the process.
Click to expand...
480 posts later, and you have said several times, we don’t know how the universe came to be. This means we have no evidence that it happened by natural causes or with the guidance of God.
Freddy said:
So that indicates it’s…natural.
Click to expand...
No, because you have said you have no proof how the universe came to be.

However, if you say it is my opinion that the universe came to be by natural causes, then I am happy to accept this.
 
rossum said:
I am not deflecting. If Vishnu created the universe and material life on earth, then God did not do it.
Click to expand...
Are you asking us to accept that Vishnu created the universe?

If your understanding is that Vishnu created the universe, then he has the power of an intelligent creator God. We may disagree on the name of God, but we have an understanding that the universe needs a creator God.
 
Eric_Hyom said:
Are you asking us to accept that Vishnu created the universe?
Click to expand...
No. I am asking for evidence that Vishnu, Allah or any of the other gods that Christians claim do not exist did not create the universe and material life.

Buddhist scriptures have many gods. Their primary function is to listen in the audience while he is speaking, and applaud in the appropriate places. Some of them get to ask questions as well. The gods are not very important in Buddhism.
 
rossum said:
I am not deflecting. If Vishnu created the universe …
Click to expand...
Well, either deflecting or hijacking the thread. Please read the OP’s title. Suggest a new thread for, “How could the universe and life come into existence without Vishnu? …”
 
rossum said:
No. I am asking for evidence that Vishnu, Allah or any of the other gods that Christians claim do not exist did not create the universe and material life.
Click to expand...
If that is your question, then please start another thread.

It is your choice to reply to this thread, but if you choose to reply again, please can you refer to the title of the thread.

Many thank,
Eric
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top