How Did I Get Stuck in This Debate?

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irisfromohio

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I am in desperate need of assistance in teaching me to allow my cooler head to prevail. Oh, I am not involved in anything overtly hostile, but it is frustrating.

Somehow, on Facebook, I began defending the Catholic faith with a young man who insists on telling me about all of the false teachings of the Chruch. He will ask me a question and if I answer it, he tells me that I was taught wrong. For example, he claims that everytime you see the term “Good Works” in Scripture, it means “Law”. Then, he cannot back up where he learned this interpretation.

Arguments go round and round, everytime I answer, he will change the subject, make an end run around what I have said, TWIST what I have said and then come back, firing a repetative question at me claiming I didn’t answer it when I KNOW I DID, and just convolute the conversation to the point of … of … ludicrosy. I could share some of the dialogue if anyone wishes to assist me, but I realize that ultimately, maybe my best move is to extricate myself from the conversation all together and allow him the last word, upon which he insists on having…Grrrr!
 
Tell him he’s not discussing in good faith, he’s not actually interested in discussing and learning, and that you have better things to do with your limited time on earth, and you will entrust him to the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. And then fight the temptation to continue communicating with him!
 
Sometimes it is just best to bow out gracefully. Obviously, this individual has no interest in hearing what you have to say. He’s not interested in the facts and all you can do, really, is to pray that the Holy Spirit will enlighten him one day with a moment of clarity.

BUT, I would leave with a parting shot. I’d close with Matthew 16:18-19:

"And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of hell shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
 
irisfromohio said:
I am in desperate need of assistance in teaching me to allow my cooler head to prevail. Oh, I am not involved in anything overtly hostile, but it is frustrating.

Somehow, on Facebook, I began defending the Catholic faith with a young man who insists on telling me about all of the false teachings of the Chruch. He will ask me a question and if I answer it, he tells me that I was taught wrong. For example, he claims that everytime you see the term “Good Works” in Scripture, it means “Law”. Then, he cannot back up where he learned this interpretation.

Arguments go round and round, everytime I answer, he will change the subject, make an end run around what I have said, TWIST what I have said and then come back, firing a repetative question at me claiming I didn’t answer it when I KNOW I DID, and just convolute the conversation to the point of … of … ludicrosy. I could share some of the dialogue if anyone wishes to assist me, but I realize that ultimately, maybe my best move is to extricate myself from the conversation all together and allow him the last word, upon which he insists on having…Grrrr!
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Sometimes…it is bette to turn the tables on him, make him defend instead of you.

For example… He will ask me a question and if I answer it, he tells me that I was taught wrong.

Ask him how he knows this? To provide you with the documents where he gets his sources…then you can attack the source…which obviously will not be official catholic sources.

When he says you are wrong in interpretating a passage…ask him if he is infallible, which of course he will not admit…so if he is not infallible, then he could be the one making a mistake…if he says the HS is guiding him…ask how he knows it is in fact the HS and not an angel masquerading as an angel of light (this is in the Bible). Then ask him if he has tested the spirit( which again is asked in the Bible…1john4)…and ask how (see 1john4:6)…

Anyway, these are just ideas I used to turn them on their heads. Another one I like, is one pastor kept on asking me to convert…so I asked him if he can prove to me what he is preaching is true…to provide me proof following the example of st. paul in gal 2:2 and Acts 13…he could not.
 
Hi irisfromohio

Why not walk away from the debate? If both parties in a debate insist on having the last word then it will never end - that seems to happen an awful lot n the internet.
 
Unless you are using the private message function you have to remember that others are seeing this conversation transpire. Personally, I try to avoid anything that could make someone talk negatively about my faith on FB. I do not want people bashing what I believe. So, you can choose to put it behind you and be the bigger person and refuse to continue. I would hide all posts by this person and refuse to go there as you have described someone who sounds like they just want to be contrary to be contrary.
 
irisfromohio said:
I am in desperate need of assistance in teaching me to allow my cooler head to prevail. Oh, I am not involved in anything overtly hostile, but it is frustrating.

Somehow, on Facebook, I began defending the Catholic faith with a young man who insists on telling me about all of the false teachings of the Chruch. He will ask me a question and if I answer it, he tells me that I was taught wrong. For example, he claims that everytime you see the term “Good Works” in Scripture, it means “Law”. Then, he cannot back up where he learned this interpretation.

Arguments go round and round, …
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You said, “he cannot back up where he learns his interpretation.” If he cannot, the conversation stops. You do it this way:

“You said thus-and-so. You provided no reference or substantiation that this is correct. Until you do, you are simply voicing your opinions at best and inventing “facts” at worst. Until you can provide some corroboration or authoritative substantiation, I’m afraid I have nothing more to say, as I am not very interested in your personal opinions and what seem to be fantasies. IOW, put up or shut up.”

If he has done this numerous times, you can cite numerous examples. Then, no matter what he says, you repeat this. Because he will give you no reference, he will just try and take some piece of your response and attack that. You don’t allow it. You simply say again that he must show his claims are correct or you have nothing to say to him. You are not having an argument about the Church or God or religion. You are in a power struggle. Stop feeling/reacting and think -
 
pablope said:
Sometimes…it is bette to turn the tables on him, make him defend instead of you.

For example… He will ask me a question and if I answer it, he tells me that I was taught wrong.

Ask him how he knows this? To provide you with the documents where he gets his sources…then you can attack the source…which obviously will not be official catholic sources.

When he says you are wrong in interpretating a passage…ask him if he is infallible, which of course he will not admit…so if he is not infallible, then he could be the one making a mistake…if he says the HS is guiding him…ask how he knows it is in fact the HS and not an angel masquerading as an angel of light (this is in the Bible). Then ask him if he has tested the spirit( which again is asked in the Bible…1john4)…and ask how (see 1john4:6)…

Anyway, these are just ideas I used to turn them on their heads. Another one I like, is one pastor kept on asking me to convert…so I asked him if he can prove to me what he is preaching is true…to provide me proof following the example of st. paul in gal 2:2 and Acts 13…he could not.
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Exactly. Prove to me what your denomation/Church teaches is true and why you are in what particular branch/synod within your denomination. Not even mainstream
Proestants are unified anymore. You’ll find people often don’t want to have their faith stand alone often; it must be contrasted to Catholicism for some reason

Tell him you realize he disagrees with Catholic doctrine and teaching so now
you’d like him/her to prove their faith is true…by the Bible alone of course. Some denominations build their entire doctrine around Catholicism it seems and how wrong it is.

We had a poster on here, that stated first they learned all about what Catholicism
teaches, then learned the confessions of their denomination… Persons professing their Faith in Churches/denominations such as this all think they are Catholic experts and that must be why.

The founder of any man made tradition church influences the doctrine and in my experience they’ll jump through any hoop to deny this even if their Church is named after their founder.

Mary.
 
As I have often done, I think you may be taking too much on yourself. Words will do nothing but force him to dig his heals further in. I would continue to use words against his arguments only if you are a more effective preacher than Christ - who lost most of His disciples in John 6! Pray and let the Holy Spirit work on him. Although this person is not controlled by, or possessed by a demon, he is following the lead of the spirit of division, which afflicts the entire Body of Christ. Only the Holy Spirit expels such demons. That is brought about by fasting and prayer - especially during Lent. Fast for him. Pray for him. Perhaps a Rosary, or Divine Mercy Chaplet each day.However, do not expect any change of heart to come about as quickly as you would like. It will occur in God’s time. This is where the “fasting and prayer” rubber hits the road.
 
Personally I think you should give him the old “goodbye and God bless.” But you can lay 1Timothy 3:15 and 2 Thessalonians 2:15 on him, not that it will matter.
May God bless you
 
mountee said:
Unless you are using the private message function you have to remember that others are seeing this conversation transpire. Personally, I try to avoid anything that could make someone talk negatively about my faith on FB. I do not want people bashing what I believe. So, you can choose to put it behind you and be the bigger person and refuse to continue. I would hide all posts by this person and refuse to go there as you have described someone who sounds like they just want to be contrary to be contrary.
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Oh, this is definitely PRIVATE. No way I would allow a debate like that to be played out in public. I am no expert apologist, but I do try, however. 👍
 
I can’t help you much with specific apologetics, but if someone you are arguing with is philosophically confused or has a poor understanding of what they say, I suggest you just pull away from the conversation.

It will not change their mind and they will continue to argue in circles. One must have at least a decent understanding of a topic to be able to construct a coherent argument in favor of it.
 
Julia_Mae said:
You said, “he cannot back up where he learns his interpretation.” If he cannot, the conversation stops. You do it this way:

“You said thus-and-so. You provided no reference or substantiation that this is correct. Until you do, you are simply voicing your opinions at best and inventing “facts” at worst. Until you can provide some corroboration or authoritative substantiation, I’m afraid I have nothing more to say, as I am not very interested in your personal opinions and what seem to be fantasies. IOW, put up or shut up.”

If he has done this numerous times, you can cite numerous examples. Then, no matter what he says, you repeat this. Because he will give you no reference, he will just try and take some piece of your response and attack that. You don’t allow it. You simply say again that he must show his claims are correct or you have nothing to say to him. You are not having an argument about the Church or God or religion. You are in a power struggle. Stop feeling/reacting and think -
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I think this and what po18guy suggest… and extricate myself. I will let him have the last word, because that’s just the kind of hairpin he is, but I don’t have to stress myself. I have gone back to college to finish my degree, (I WILL BE 60 WHEN I FINISH WHAT I STARTED IN 1971!!! WOOHOO!!!) and I am heavily in the citation and documentation mode. I HAVE tried to use intelligent arguments with such, even Sacred Scripture as my support, but he is resolute. I am just parroting the bad teachings of the Church of Rome. He knows it all, he says, because his entire family is Catholic. Grrrr… It’s time to throw in the towel on that wheel spinning exercise and do something more productive… like pray :getholy:
 
irisfromohio said:
I am in desperate need of assistance in teaching me to allow my cooler head to prevail. Oh, I am not involved in anything overtly hostile, but it is frustrating.

Somehow, on Facebook, I began defending the Catholic faith with a young man who insists on telling me about all of the false teachings of the Chruch. He will ask me a question and if I answer it, he tells me that I was taught wrong. For example, he claims that everytime you see the term “Good Works” in Scripture, it means “Law”. Then, he cannot back up where he learned this interpretation.

Arguments go round and round, everytime I answer, he will change the subject, make an end run around what I have said, TWIST what I have said and then come back, firing a repetative question at me claiming I didn’t answer it when I KNOW I DID, and just convolute the conversation to the point of … of … ludicrosy. I could share some of the dialogue if anyone wishes to assist me, but I realize that ultimately, maybe my best move is to extricate myself from the conversation all together and allow him the last word, upon which he insists on having…Grrrr!
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If it’s just one knucklehead you’re dealing with, or a very small/limited ‘audience’, end the discussion, and walk away.

If there are a number of ppl. following, and you think it may be of consequence…then I believe you’re sitting on a golden opportunity to use this knucklehead’s posting, as a platform to evenagelize for the Church.
  1. Take the last issue y’all dealt with–whatever it is–come back here on CAF, or use some other resources–get what the Catholic Church says about the issue;
  2. Look into the the rationale/basis for our beief–add some quotes from teh Church Fathers, for good measure…
  3. …AND POST THEM!
  4. Wash, rinse, repeat, with each issue.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.
 
Actually, a militant atheist friend of mine on Facebook posted once:
If I stop talking to you, you can go ahead and think you won. It makes no difference to me. I have better things to do with my life than argue with stupid people.
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Clearly this guy is just trying to rile you up, he has no interest in learning anything. I know it’s hard, but just walk away. You got better things to do with your time.
 
BethanieRyan said:
Actually, a militant atheist friend of mine on Facebook posted once:

Clearly this guy is just trying to rile you up, he has no interest in learning anything. I know it’s hard, but just walk away. You got better things to do with your time.
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Best advice. 👍
 
Well, I took the adviceof the majority and I thank all who answered me. His response was just as predicted & he had to have the last word. Here is the last part of our dialogue. From when I was talking to him while riding in my car… Don’t worry, I was using the talk function on my phone, not texting & driving, but I was SO irritated, I wanted to get out of the conversation:
…
Iris Blessed Dunson
who taught you what you are telling me?

11:26am
Jamie
God

11:26am
Iris Blessed Dunson
through what human being or human voice were you talk by God?
Taught

11:28am
Jamie
The bible
I know you are looking for another answer that you can pounce on, thats my answer, God taught me.

11:30am
Iris Blessed Dunson
written by men. they received the inspired Word of God. so what we’re talking about is your human interpretation.

11:30am
Jamie
Abraham, Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, solomon, Jesus, Paul, Peter, to name a few.

11:31am
Iris Blessed Dunson
not dodging seriously but I have to go. I will discuss
your interpretations when I get to my computer.

11:32am
Jamie
If I read on the page, “the tree is green” theres nothing to interpret. Catholics live in a world of relative truth, I get it.
Today

3:01pm
Iris Blessed Dunson
Well, I am afraid that you don’t, Jamie. Poor analogy, because a tree is not just “green”, especially in the winter. That is relative, as so many things in life are.
After much thought, I have decided that you are not discussing this subject in earnest. I try to substantiate my statements of faith and you not only reject them, you disregard or find a way to minimize them.
You said that when you read the word, “works” in Sacred Scripture, it means “Law”. You provided no reference or substantiation that this is correct. Until you do, you are simply voicing your opinions at best and inventing “facts” at worst. Until you can provide some corroboration or authoritative substantiation, I’m afraid I have nothing more to say, as I am not very interested in your personal opinions interpretations and what seem to be fantasies at times. IOW, put up or shut up.
Now, you’re a man, so I know you must have the last word. That’s fine. May God continue to bless you.

3:55pm
Jamie
The book of Romans.
Genesis.
Exodus
Leviticus
Phillippians
Thessolonians
Ephesians
Thats how I know its law
You either believe the bible is sufficient or you dont. I believe it is. I dont need other doctrines added to it to explain it. God explained it just fine,he doesnt need help from the catholic church.
You obviously dont trust God so you trust in something you can touch, feel, see and tells you what to believe.
Sent from Mobile
…
So, we were all correct. I will leave him in his delusion of victory and continue to pray for him.👍 Thanks again.
 
I would simply cut him off and block his ability to PM you. He has no interest in constructive debate, only confrontation. And that doesn’t do anyone any good.
 
Hoo(name removed by moderator)mie said:
I would simply cut him off and block his ability to PM you. He has no interest in constructive debate, only confrontation. And that doesn’t do anyone any good.
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To quote Dickens, “Done and done!” I found a way to “mute” the conversation. That way, no chat boxes show up and he cannot post any messages… cool beans, eh?
 
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