How did Islam get so popular?

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The house of Islam treats those outside of Islam differently, is my presupposition.

I don’t “deduce” a judgement for all Muslims from any particular event.

The Islamic laws dictates to the Muslim from the House of Islam, on how to treat unbeliever’s. How each individual Muslim practices from the House of Islam, believes he/she has the right to act in such a negative or positive way towards non-Muslims
 
Correct in fundamentals. But claudine has stated here
claudine said:
I didn’t mind at all about wearing the total coverage and total veil over my face
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And on a dozen other threads on the forums that she usually wore full Islamic garb when in Morocco. Complete with an unnecessary face veil and eye gauze, so there’s no way people could have figured out she wasn’t Muslim.

They didn’t overcharge her for not being a Muslim. They thought she was an ISIS supporter.🤣
 
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I don’t think you understand. The poster claims to be a Christian resided within a Muslim dominated society. She wore the coverage to prevent from being mistreated by Muslims. The local Muslim’s knew who she was living among Muslim’s, and treated differently.

What I believe is being missed in our exchange here, is that a Muslim practicing his/her Islamic faith from the House of Islam, believe’s Muslim’s by divine right, has the legal liberty to treat those outside of the House of Islam differently from Muslims.

The House of Islam is a contradiction to Jesus teaching; Matthew 7:12 In everything, treat others as you would want them to treat you, for this fulfills the law … law stated in Scripture , “Love your neighbor as yourself ,” you are doing well.
 
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OriginalGabrielof12 said:
What I believe is being missed in our exchange here, is that a Muslim practicing his/her Islamic faith from the House of Islam, believe’s Muslim’s by divine right, has the legal liberty to treat those outside of the House of Islam differently from Muslims.
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We are not in disagreement. The testimony of non-Muslims is considered defective in Islamic court.
OriginalGabrielof12 said:
don’t think you understand. The poster claims to be a Christian resided within a Muslim dominated society. She wore the coverage to prevent from being mistreated by Muslims. The local Muslim’s knew who she was living among Muslim’s, and treated differently.
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I understand exactly what I’m talking about. My family wasn’t secretive of our Christian faith in Saudi Arabia, whenever someone asked us why my mother wasn’t wearing a face veil we’d jokingly reply, “Because we’re Nazarenes,” and the matter would be over with either a laugh from the questioner or a shocked glare. No one tried to overcharge us, and that was Saudi Arabia. More likely claudine was acting like a sterotypical scared Western tourist in an Arab country: talking in a loud pitched voice, glancing apprehensively at the A-rabs (with an emphasized A) and complaining loudly in English (everyone speaks English now, you know). I’ve seen enough of these types to recognize them online- for Arab merchants they’re easy pickings, as they’re probably too petrified to haggle over a price.(Pro tip: in the Arab world, you’re supposed to haggle)
 
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Le_Crouton said:
The trinity is very hard to accept and a whole lot of people don’t believe in the Bible or Torah or do but think man corrupted it
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You are mistaken. The Trinity never tries to define God. Know man ever declared to know God, except Jesus, who is the Word of God made flesh.
The Trinity calls us to faith in the ONE HOLY GOD. Who has given divine revelation to our humanity by the Voice of the Father, The Word who creates, and the Breath of God who is Spirit. In all these God has made His Presence Known to our humanity. The Trinity does not define God as you mistakenly perceived.

When God created Adam from dust and breathed life into Adam, when nothing is impossible for God who teaches us. That God’s Word can take on flesh and fulfill all of God’s law and prophets in one visitation.

God never declared the scriptures corrupted by man. The Man who is corrupt makes this false declaration, who was never present when divine revelation was given, declared, committed to memory and practice and recorded.
 
Venice, the timeless city, lives up to that time-honored title, it would seem.
 
Salibi said:
We are not in disagreement. The testimony of non-Muslims is considered defective in Islamic court.
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Enough said.

A Nazarene residing in Arabia, has already succumbed to the Muslim tax and Islamic laws. The Nazarene may exist in Arabia in peace because Islamic laws dictates it, so long as you remain with in your boundaries. I don’t think your example corresponds directly to the poster’s circumstances as explained from her posting’s.
 
I have Muslim cousins who married into my family.

What is interesting, the younger cousins who were born here, have now converted to Christianity, In Fact one has become a Christian Minister. These have been disowned by their Father and their Muslim family members from Iraq.
 
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OriginalGabrielof12 said:
Muslim tax and Islamic laws.
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Incorrect. We paid nothing more than zakat - the obligatory tax imposed on all Muslims and non-Muslims in Islamic states. We did not pay jizya, which is derived from the Arabic word for punishment and was imposed on those who refused to convert to Islam.

Saudi Arabia has no secular laws, only Islamic ones, so zakat is their equivalent of an income tax- we paid it just as we would in any other country.
 
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I repeat, a Christian Nazarene residing in Arabia does not meet the same criteria as our poster’s circumstance living in a Muslim society known as a Western Christian.
 
OriginalGabrielof12 said:
Nazarene
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  1. My usage of Nazarene was in illustration of a joke. Don’t know if you know this, but Nazarene is a derogatory Arab term for Christians, used to imply that Jesus’ real father was Joseph and not God. I’m sure you didn’t mean it, but please stop using it. It’s offensive.
OriginalGabrielof12 said:
does not meet the same criteria as our poster’s circumstance living in a Muslim society known as a Western Christian.
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2)Which criteria do you believe I don’t meet? And Saudi Arabia is the Muslim society. Morocco has churches, for God’s sake. In Arabia they’re illegal. And you’d be kidding yourself if you thought Saudi Arabians know the difference between an Eastern and Western Christian.

Furthermore, the poster we are discussing spoke of how she escaped Morocco through the Atlas Mountains. I’m not sure that was necessary, they have bloody fine seaports at Tangier to ferry you to Spain.
 
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Salibi said:
My usage of Nazarene was in illustration of a joke.
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My usage was not a joke, for Christians since apostolic times were called Nazarene’s. I used Nazarene from a biblical understanding, never a Muslim understanding.
 
I actually lived in Morocco, my judgements were not modeled on a single event, but many many purchases, renting a house and marketing in several different areas.

If you choose to believe I am somehow a racist, and belligerently anti muslim, that is your problem.
However I have successfully immigrated into 6 other countries, learned enough of the languages to navigate life and I have to agree, Italy is the most difficult of european countries I experinced. I lived in a Italy for three years of University studies and 4 years 15 years later withe my husband. Venice is very trying I have to agree with others experience on that city.
 
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I spoke french and a bit of Berber I learned before going to Morocco while I was living in Spain, but there was no mistaking my white skin and my accent even though I always dressed covered u til I purchased veil and gloves. Its My husband that speaks much better french than I do, being he is Canadian.
I had a hard time not speaking to men at all, as is the custom in Islam. I quickly learned it was much easier for us is I just kept quiet.
That didn’t stop the over pricing of things, unfortunately.

I resent your description of me.
 
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vWe, of course had to drive from east south Morocco to the ferries to Spain, but went ver the beautiful Atlas Mountains, through ilmchil where the Norwegien and Swedish girls were beheaded on their camping rrip two seeks after we left. This town was one we had been wanting to visit. As our home was in a Desert town, we often thought about this town in the Mountains as a summer getaway for when the summer heat would inevitably come. Our landlord told us about the new highway in the Atlas Mountains and since we had been seeing the mointains both on our drive into Morocco and from our appartment balcony home, we left by this road. As it turned out, we felt intimidated by our landlord and another man so we left in the evening after we had packed our things. We still to this day feel we made a narrow escape, there seemed to be a lot of hostility in the town we lived in and in Merrekesh, where we stayed and also enroute to the Tangier ferry crossing.

I restate my earlier advice, heed all trqvel warnings when traveling in morocco and never be alone ay anytime anywhere in the country. If you go stick to well known tourist area such as Rabat or Casablanca.
If you wre going to stay in Tangier, be very careful and stay at the highest price place you can where you have a good chane of feeling safe.

I dont think anyone doubts my courage as a traveler. I traveled from USA and Canada extensively inEurope on my own and alone. i’ve lived in Muslim neghborhoods and in fact I do so now. My neighborhood is probably over half people of colour and muslim here in france and all the security guards at our local grocery store are very black. I rarely look over my shoulder, but you make me feel pehaps I should, you are sounding a bit virulent in your comments about me.

Oh and by the way, the highway over the Atlas Mountains is not finished and is dangerous to travel. If you even think about doing it I suggest not. Not even with a guide. I estimate it will take another year or two before the road from the south of Ouarzazate over the mountains to Merakesh will be safe for travel. Whatever you do do not even think of visiting Merakesh, the Illimchill areas or anything south of Merakesh.
 
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I’m sorry you had such bad experiences travelling in Morocco. Thanks for taking the time to tell us of your travels and what to avoid.
 
claudine said:
If you choose to believe I am somehow a racist, and belligerently anti muslim, that is your problem.
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Hello claudine. I believe you have entered a conversation third person, which could mislead your understanding. Please allow me to clarify.
My discussion with Salibi dealt with the actions of Muslims acting, practicing their Islamic faith from the House of Islam towards non-believers. I commented only on what you posted about your experience, never about you personally as being a racist.

If? you believe my post reveals a “racist” view? Then you have mistakenly judged my commentary on the House of Islamic practices as “racist”. Due to the fact, on how Muslims are to treat non-Muslims.

What I did not comment on deals with how Muslims view, treat and discipline Muslim Women in the House of Islam. Which in most Western Christian Societies would find appalling and criminal. But that is off topic. Which I did not address in your case, because your signature labels you as a non-Muslim.

I would respectfully ask you a question here? How can you describe why you being a non-Muslim Women, dressing up in public as a Muslim Women? I understand why a Muslim Women dresses with a cover, I am interested in learning more about your personal take on wearing a cover in public.

Peace be with you
 
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I was moving to Morocco and after researching the difficulties women who travel to that country had I decided to cover, which I did on the day we began our tme in Morocco. I read several blogs, muslim amd non muslim women had written. Some covered, some did not. Covering was not mentioned as merely a ‘muslim’ action. After reviewing ehat others had written, including a couple of women’s views on whether to cover as a non-muslim, my decision was to cover in respect of the culture as well as for my own protection.

Something I mention to you is that in all my time in Morocco I was very aware thwt muslim men never met my eyes or dircted speech to me except the times I was harrassed. I researched this as well and was surprised to find out that this is the norm. So when women get harrassed in Tangier or by other street touts they are actually experienceing insulting behavior from men who regard them as lesser beings than muslim women.

I learned a lot from my experience and I still advise any woman going to morocco to cover to protect herself.

I welcome questions. Do you find it offensive that I decided after being harrassed sexually to completely cover my face and hands by wearing jilbab, gloves and niquab? If so, why?
 
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