How did language begin?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Third_Day
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
T

Third_Day

Guest
In the book *The Doctrines of Genesis *by Father Warkulwiz, he believes that, “God specially created the original languages and infused them into the minds of the first users”

He also relates this experiment documented by David Crystal in The Cambridge Encyclopedia of Language.
“The Mogul Emperor of India, Akbar the Great (1542-1605) believed that children could learn to speak only by listening to others. He put his idea to a test by having infants raised by tongue-tied nurses in a house isolated from contract with other humans. As he expected, the children did not learn to speak. This cruel and immoral experiment confirmed the fact that humans could not create language.”

My wife teaches sign-language. She says it is a fact that children born to deaf couples cannot learn to speak even if their parents have limited speech. They have to go to speech therapy and even with that they have limited speech until they begin school.

If God did not infuse language into man, how did man learn to speak without hearing anyone speaking?
 
The only record we have is the Genesis account, which indicates that that Adam had the ability to converse with God, as recorded in Genesis 2:19, 2:23. Now, if this was verbal, intuitive, or some other form of communication, it does not specify. What scripture does say is that man “called” the creatures names, which normally refers to spoken communication. However, we have the physiological structures of speech via genetics, so clearly, we are intended to speak. As to separate languages, later, when men began to demonstrate their pride by constructing the Tower of Babel (Genesis 11:1-9), God introduced among them differing languages, to confuse them and confound their working against the will of God. Clearly, the subject is more involved than this, but this remains the only record we have regarding language as to its origin and development.
 
language started in a very basic form, most likely as verbal expressions of the sensations. “Ohhhh” and “Ahhhh” from the warmth of the Sun is kind of an illustration. Language is just like evolution, gradually upgrading over time.
 
Being able to form a language is inherent in human nature. Being able to learn another’s person’s (parents for example) language often depends on the anatomy.
Form and learn represent two different functions. In one sense, any sentient animal has these two different functions, thus there is a bit of confusion when it comes to distinguishing humans from non-humans in pre-history.

With the first two fully-complete rational human beings (often called Adam and Eve) natural instinctive communication (wolves howling, birds singing) was transformed by powers of the spiritual soul into the tools of reason, self-reflection, logical and analytical thinking, creativity beyond survival and so on. Humans naturally developed the appropriate language.

Blessings,
granny

The human person is worthy of prfound respect from the moment of conception.
 
language started in a very basic form, most likely as verbal expressions of the sensations. “Ohhhh” and “Ahhhh” from the warmth of the Sun is kind of an illustration. Language is just like evolution, gradually upgrading over time.
First comment -
There is a difference between communication and language I think.
Animals can communicate with each other with noises - “Tweets” and “whistles”, “grunts” and “barks”…In human terms maybe they mean something like, “I need food”, “get out of my way”, “I’m looking for a mate”…One or more noises may indicate these things, but it is a way of communicating but not truly language.
A human baby in an environment surrounded by people who talk/speak may babble and point to communicate things such as “I want milk” or “I want the cookie” that moms and dads can figure out because they are around them but guests rarely can understand the child at all. It is limited selective communication in a sense. But in most cases early on, the infants just cry and mom or dad has to figure out what is wrong.
I would contend that none of these examples are truly language but rather forms communication.

Language in itself is fascinating.

As Third Day pointed out, the babies in the experiment by Akba never heard nor were taught language, so they did not know how to have language either.
Yes, in this study they communicated with hand gestures somewhat but it does not sound like true language.
And the hearing children of deaf parents are in similar situations from what I understand. They never ‘hear’ nor are they taught language. They may be able to communicate a message by gestures but it is not language initially. They must be taught often by speech therapists as Third Day commented.

We see primates who can learn sign language to communicate, but they have never been shown to use it for true language in that they never have asked the experimenters questions. They use the signs in a limited way for communication.
If man evolved and now has a more complex brain than the chimpanzees, how is it that man just does not have language? Why is it that it still must be learned as shown above with the babies with Akba and in the cases with deaf parents?
Without being taught or without hearing language, it is not able to be learned or used by humans even today.
It is not something that just is, it is learned.
BUT what if you go back to the beginnings…If there was no language around, HOW was it learned?
How did it go from babbles used for communication to the complex notion of language??
Even those with the developed complex human mind today CANNOT know language without hearing it or learning it!

I find it difficult to explain from an evolutionary standpoint…

Secondly -
Humans are social creations and so where humans are, language will be found.
Having said that, technologies may be simple or complex BUT languages are never simple and are always complex.
It even seems in many cases that languages in pre-industrialized times were much more complex than English.
As an example, I found a source that says that English has about 7 tense forms and 3 noun genders, whereas Kivunjo, a Bantu language spoken on the slopes of Mount Kilimanjaro has 14 tenses and about 20 noun classes!
And we think English is hard to learn!

There is no evidence that there are primitive languages now in existence, nor is there any evidence that these primitive languages have existed in the past–even among the most remote tribes of stone age hunter-gatherers.

Another comment -
If language evolved, the earliest languages should be the simplest. Correct?

But language studies show that the more ancient the language (for example: Latin, 200 B.C.; Greek, 800 B.C.; Linear B, 1200 B.C.; and Vedic Sanskrit, 1500 B.C.), the more complex it is with respect to syntax, case, gender, mood, voice, tense, verb form, and inflection.
Even the people with the least complex cultures have highly sophisticated languages.
The best evidence shows that languages devolve; that is, they become simpler instead of more complex.
Most linguists reject the idea that simple languages evolve into complex languages.

I have read it stated that because of the interconnectedness of humans and language, if humans evolved, then so did language.
All available evidence indicates that language did not evolve, so what does that say about humans?..

Frances
 
=grannymh;7725765]With the first two fully-complete rational human beings (often called Adam and Eve) natural instinctive communication (wolves howling, birds singing) was transformed by powers of the spiritual soul into the tools of reason, self-reflection, logical and analytical thinking, creativity beyond survival and so on.
You seem to be saying that Adam and Eve evolved from a lower life form. If that is so, did this lower life form have language?
Humans naturally developed the appropriate language.]
According to Genesis they had language as soon as they were put in the garden of Eden. How do you reconcile that?
 
I don’t know; I wasn’t there. But I’d be willing to bet that the first words of human language were spoken by a woman 😛 😃

running and hiding now

DaveBj
 
From grannymh, post 5
With the first two fully-complete rational human beings (often called Adam and Eve) natural instinctive communication (wolves howling, birds singing) was transformed by powers of the spiritual soul into the tools of reason, self-reflection, logical and analytical thinking, creatively beyond survival and so on. Humans naturally developed the appropriate language.
You seem to be saying that Adam and Eve evolved from a lower life form. If that is so, did this lower life form have language?
To clear up any misunderstanding, let us approach human language from the Catholic position that Adam’s nature in itself uniquely unites the spiritual and material worlds. Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition, paragraphs beginning with number 355. In other words, Adam is a true, fully-complete human person with the same basic nature as ours. This is in contrast to the natural science position which includes the physical anatomy but excludes the possibility of a spiritual soul in the Image of God.

In general, lower life forms refer to animals, insects, and bacteria, all of which are composed of matter which eventually decomposes. But our human nature is more than a material/physical anatomy. You and I are an unique unification of rational/corporeal; spirit/matter; material/non-material; soul and body with a different eternal purpose than earthly decomposition in some form. While technically our bodies have some functions which are similar to some non-human life examples, such as reproduction, defense mechanisms against diseases, locomotion, etc., it is our spiritual soul which makes us different in kind from all other species. Humans are peerless.

Catholicism recognizes the difference between the material anatomy and the spiritual soul at the same time it declares: "The unity of soul and body is so profound that one has to consider the soul to be the “form” of the body, i.e., it is because of its spiritual soul that the body made of matter becomes a living, human body; spirit and matter, in man, are not two natures united, but rather their union forms a single nature. (CCC 365)

Matter can and does change – evolve in that sense. As often demonstrated, matter cannot produce the spiritual, never has and never will. Thus, lower life forms, all made of matter, could never become a fully-complete human person as described by Catholicism.

The difficult question is – could the matter of our anatomy be related to the matter in other life forms? Considering the unity within creation, the answer could be maybe in certain ways.

In any case, God formed man in an unique manner. (Genesis 2: 7) The natural instinctive communication (wolves howling, birds singing) of non-human beings would not be proper to the human person. In other words, whatever sounds the anatomy could produce would now be used to express in specific language the spiritual soul’s intellective powers of learning and reasoning, acquiring knowledge and understanding, plus the distinctive ability to think abstractly, creatively, and profoundly.
According to Genesis they had language as soon as they were put in the garden of Eden. How do you reconcile that?
Of course Adam and Eve had language immediately because each was a fully-complete human person. Only a Pure Spirit without restrictions could transform what we call ordinary anatomical sounds (a, e, i, o, u, etc.) into an actual language capable of expressing the spiritual intellective powers named above. Please notice that I did not say "transform a lower life form, but only referred to sound examples of wolves howling and birds singing which sounds are part of natural instinctive communication. By the way, the sounds of my singing are often referred to as howling.

Blessings,
granny

The human person is worthy of profound respect from the moment of conception.
 
If God did not infuse language into man, how did man learn to speak without hearing anyone speaking?
Your question falsely assumes that language was complicated from the beginning. However, as another poster pointed out, it’s far more sensible to think that language began as a series of simple grunts, oohs, ahhs, and gestures, that slowly developed over the course of time into what we today call “language.”

After all, other animals communicate all the time. Humans, being the animals equipped with powerful brains (as opposed to, say, the animals equipped with the ability to run quickly or the animals equipped with the longest neck) have, over time, developed a much more abstract form of communication. That is exactly what we would expect in a completely natural world.

FrancesDS:
If language evolved, the earliest languages should be the simplest. Correct?
No. Leaving aside for a moment the subjective nature of deciding that a language is “simple,” we are talking about the origin of language. As someone else noted, all language is complex, to varying degrees.

What I’m suggesting is that it’s sensible to think that before there was language, there were simplistic modes of communication that gradually developed into what we call language.

There is an analogy we can draw between biological evolution and the evolution of languages (after all, languages do descend from one another; for example, Spanish and Italian had a common ancestor: Latin. And just like with species that evolve from common ancestors, we can form nested hierarchies with branching pathways and falsify the claim that they share a common ancestor).

Biological evolution, it’s important to remember, is not about becoming more “complicated” – it’s about change over time. Period. Some species become very large and complex because that’s what they needed to survive in a certain environment; in other environments, a different species might have survived by staying very small and simple and not changing very much at all.

Evolution isn’t a “ladder,” where everything is trying to get to the top of the complexity tree: it’s just change over time. A better metaphor would be a tree with different, snaking branches.

With language, it’s quite similar: languages just change over time. There’s not necesarily a move to become more or less complicated. After a very long period of time, a language will have changed enough that we can classify it as a new language, in the same way that species can change so much that we can classify new species after a very long time (this is called “speciation,” and it’s been observed in the lab).

It’s hard to wrap your head around such huge time periods and such incremental change, so language can actually be a helpful analogy. Spanish and Italian both “descended” from Latin, but there was never a Latin-speaking mother who gave birth to a Spanish-speaking child. Everyone speaks the language of the area where they lives, but over time – very slowly – change after incremental change takes place. And if we flash forward very far into the future, those little changes add up, and suddenly, we’ve got a completely different language (and its cousin-languages that came from the same common ancestor).
All available evidence indicates that language did not evolve, so what does that say about humans?
As I’ve been suggesting, there is a great deal of evidence that both languages and humans “evolve” (in different ways) and that there is a close analogy between the processes.

But even if you were right that language didn’t evolve, it wouldn’t tell us anything about biological evolution.
 
Well said AntiTheist. The evolution of the Latin language to other languages has been a favorite analogy of mine.

I also wanted to point out to FrancesDS that the time in which language originally developed is far before the “complex” languages that you mentioned (Linear B, 1200 B.C.; and Vedic Sanskrit, 1500 B.C.) Language started its development about 2 million years ago (with primitive symbolic communication) and became something that resembles what we would call language around 100,000 years ago. The ancient languages you pointed out are actually a good way into the development of language,

From here, there is plenty of time for language to evolve into more “complex” forms and back to less “complex” forms.

(I put “complex” into quotes because I am not sure how language is measured for complexity, if it even can.)
 
Well,

The opinions of AntiTheist and OvralpnMagstria notwithstanding the logic and information in FrancesDS’ post, the further back we go, the more complex we find language to have been.

I would like to submit that the old Uniformtarianist evolutionary tactic of adding millions of years to this topic does not change the evidence which points out that language was learned from a speaking person. And, only learned from a speaking person.

Since I am Catholic I believe that Speaking Person was God in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve.

In short, I do believe that this simple question which has evoked such complicated answers, demonstrates this is one time that Christians can safely say, “God put it there.” 😃

God loves all of you,
Don
 
=OvrlapnMagstria;7727977]Language started its development about 2 million years ago (with primitive symbolic communication) and became something that resembles what we would call language around 100,000 years ago.
How did you come up with those ages? Is it based on infallible proof or assumption?
 
Do you believe that God formed man immediately out of the slime of the earth?
You are a good discussion partner so I hate to sidestep your question; yet, I must do that.

I go by the doctrines expressed in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition.

Paragraph 355 says: “Man occupies a unique place in creation: (I) he is “in the image of God”; (II) in his own nature he unites the spiritual and material worlds; (III) he is created “male and female”; (IV) God established him in His friendship.”

Paragraph 365 says: “The unity of soul and body is so profound that one has to consider the soul to be the “form” of the body: i.e., it is because of its spiritual soul that the body made of matter becomes a living, human body; spirit and matter, in man, are not two natures united, but rather their union forms a single nature.”

These two paragraphs give the sense of an immediate creation of human nature and not a human nature which evolved. This fact I believe.

Unfortunately, this fact of immediate creation does not actually affirm or deny the slime of the earth. Nor does it affirm or deny that the matter, which is the anatomy, was already a part of the unity of God’s creation. What is essential about immediate creation of the human person is that because of the spiritual soul, which can only be created by God, the material body is a living, human body. Man’s single nature is an unique unification of the spiritual and material worlds.

Regarding slime or clay as another Catholic bible translates the original word.

Slime or clay is also “matter” which in its broadest sense is what non-human living creatures are made of.* Genesis 1:24 * begins with: "Then God said, “Let the earth bring for all kinds of living creatures:” One can say Adam was formed of actual slime which is matter in the general sense. Or one can say that Adam was formed in the general sense of matter which would be part of the material world. The matter of Adam and Eve’s anatomy is transmitted to descendents by procreation. The descendent’s human nature depends on God’s immediate creation of the spiritual soul.

So in good conscience, I cannot personally answer the second part of your question as I view Adam’s anatomy as matter which could be slime, clay, earth, or something else formed into human nature because of the spiritual soul created by God. (CCC 365 above) Praise God!

Blessings,
granny

“The shepherds sing; and shall I silent be?”
from the poem “Christmas” by George Herbert
 
=grannymh;7725765]. With the first two fully-complete rational human beings (often called Adam and Eve) natural instinctive communication (wolves howling, birds singing) was transformed by powers of the spiritual soul into the tools of reason, self-reflection, logical and analytical thinking, creativity beyond survival and so on. Humans naturally developed the appropriate language.
How long did it take language to develope?

According to Genesis, Adam and Eve had language and the ability to reason. If language developed how did Adam and Eve have language?

I take it you would disagree with Father Warkulwiz who believes that, “God specially created the original languages and infused them into the minds of the first users”
 
How long did it take language to develope?
First there has to be the intellective ability to develop language. This is inherent in the rational/corporeal human nature of Adam. *Genesis 2: 19-20 *is based on Adam’s rational abilities. Adam’s own words in *Genesis 2:23 *again demonstrates his capabilities for rational thought and expression. Apparently, Adam’s language skills are highly developed at the onset.

However, after Original Sin, language itself changed into many different kinds. (Genesis 11: 1-9) How long it took for the various migrations of people (Genesis 11: 9) to develop a new language which could be understood within their particular group is not specified. I am familiar with one native language which often uses a long description of a particular place instead of a proper noun. That is just one example of the ways an individual language can develop.
According to Genesis, Adam and Eve had language and the ability to reason. If language developed how did Adam and Eve have language?
The above answer to your first question plus post 9 show that Adam and Eve did have abilities needed for language as a communication between God primarily and themselves. Language was also in use between Adam and Eve and in their encounter with Satan.

In Genesis 2: 19-20, God delegates the original naming of animals to Adam. Here Adam has a chance to broaden or develop his use of language as he gives an appropriate name to each animal God brings to him. There is a distinction between Adam’s inherent ability of language and his subsequent use of language. When language is used for new situations such as life after Original Sin, it develops according what is happening.
I take it you would disagree with Father Warkulwiz who believes that, “God specially created the original languages and infused them into the minds of the first users”
My impression is that Father Warkulwiz is very thorough in his research. Therefore, I need to read his context surrounding this quote. Does Father Warkulwiz use footnotes and/or references to other authors? I wonder how Father’s belief fits in with the first three chapters of Genesis which contain a lot of basic information about human nature. In other words, I take disagreement and agreement with matters touching on the origin of humanity very seriously.

Blessings,
granny

THE HOLY EUCHARIST
IS THE LIGHT, STRENGTH, AND LIFE OF OUR SOULS.
 
=grannymh;7731572]
My impression is that Father Warkulwiz is very thorough in his research. Therefore, I need to read his context surrounding this quote. Does Father Warkulwiz use footnotes and/or references to other authors? I wonder how Father’s belief fits in with the first three chapters of Genesis which contain a lot of basic information about human nature. In other words, I take disagreement and agreement with matters touching on the origin of humanity very seriously.

Blessings,
granny
I agree with everything you stated in your post. Very well stated.

Father Warkulwiz book *The Doctrines of Genesis 1-11 *is extensively footnoted with sources from secular authors, Popes, Councils and Church Fathers.

The book was based on a talk he gave at the International Catholic Symposium on Creation held in Rome in 2002.

Before becoming a priest, he earned a Ph.D in physics and worked for the CIA in ballistic missile systems and also worked in the aerospace industry. The book’s forward is by Bishop Robert Francis Vasa.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top