How did Mary prove her virginity?

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Mary 18 - Christmastime Horrors
This is made by someone calling their work “Bible Alive Productions”. They do not have any contact info, no names or contact on their Facebook page, seems that it is one person who is speaking his own private interpretation.

When a Catholic ministry/speaker/author is approved by their Bishop, they do not hide their identity.

Stick with solid Catholic teaching.
 
Mainly is understNdiing the culture better, few scholars and few apologist do that, and instead use anachronistic readings to prove the faith, problems with this are numerous.
Those Catholic apologetics who read and listen non-Catholic speakers are often very well educated about their own faith and they don’t end up confused with borderline heretic questions by themselves. They are strong in their Catholic beliefs and they are just questioning other’s claims to prove them wrong, they don’t question them because they are suspicious about Teaching of Catholic Church.

That’s big difference.
 
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It seems it was less of a proving it to someone and more just a keeping up appearances, since Mary was known to be pregnant early by others in the village, but Joseph and Mary seem to have pretended like that didn’t happen and may have directly lied about it publicly for honor reasons (even though it was known to be a lie).
Our Lady would not have lied, for lying is a sin, and she never sinned. Evidently she and Joseph got around it some other way. (I would hope that Joseph didn’t lie on her behalf, but he was not immaculately conceived, and I suppose it is one possibility.)

This whole “tokens of virginity” thing is just gross. I realize it was part of the religion (or at least practice) of the Israelites, but I am so thankful that the Messiah Jesus came and freed us from things like that.

Ideally, both spouses should be virgins, and there should be no need for this sort of thing. For the husband, no analogous “test” is possible.
Most people don’t bleed the first time they have sex (and you can bleed even if it’s not your first time), so a bloody sheet doesn’t prove a thing. I don’t know if Joseph or Mary did/had to show a sheet though.
I mean no offense, but I would have said “most women don’t bleed the first time…”. I am not one to go all nutsy over using this word, or that word — I have known people like that, and they are very difficult to talk to — but I try to preserve gender specificity when it’s clearly called for. I recently read on Planned Parenthood’s website about “people who have abortions”, and on another site about “people with [female anatomical characteristics, though they phrased it more strongly than that]”. This is no accident. This plays right into the hands of those who want to get us away from thinking in terms of gender. Just my two sesterces’ worth.
 
I’m not really sure what’s so troubling here. The bloodied sheets are required only if the husband contests his wife’s virginity. If no one contests it, then there should be no need to prove it to anyone.

Since St. Joseph had angelic assurance that his wife was a virgin, despite her pregnancy, well then…?
 
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Mainly is understNdiing the culture better, few scholars and few apologist do that
And why don’t you stick to them? Dr. Brant Pitre is the most famous scholar I know who links first century Jewish practices to Catholicism, and while he’s admittedly not as big a name as Dr. Scott Hahn, he’s not some unknown figure either. Why hold quantity over quality?
 
This is made by someone calling their work “Bible Alive Productions”. They do not have any contact info, no names or contact on their Facebook page, seems that it is one person who is speaking his own private interpretation.

When a Catholic ministry/speaker/author is approved by their Bishop, they do not hide their identity.

Stick with solid Catholic teaching.
Yes, those of us who post anonymously on the internet really ought to expect to be taken with a grain of salt by any prudent person and not take that personally. They’re only exercising common sense.
 
And all that is not even considering the tradition that Joseph married Mary knowing she had taken vows to perpetual virginity and never intended to consummate the marriage anyway.
From time to time, on comments threads here at CAF, we read that Mary’s parents handed her over as a child to be brought up in the Temple and that in due course the priests chose Joseph, a widower, to be her husband, by drawing lots. This story derives, at least in part, from the Protevangelium of James, one of the best-known books in the Apocryphal New Testament. But where does the information come from that Mary took a vow of perpetual virginity? I can’t see that anywhere in the Protevangelium. Am I missing something here? All I can see, in chapters XIII to XVI (on pp. 44-45 in the link) is that the priests took care that she should remain a virgin until her marriage. That is clearly quite different from a vow of perpetual, i.e. lifelong, virginity.

 
What people are saying, though, is that under the circumstances there would have been no such requirement for Mary and Joseph.

While they were still betrothed (and not supposed to be sleeping together, so no wedding ceremony with any sheets), Mary turned up pregnant and Joseph, knowing the conception was a miraculous one, continued with the betrothal.

Whenever it was that their actual wedding ceremony occurred, they had a baby either on the way or already. So the family members would hardly have expected “proof of virginity” when Mary had already been pregnant. (And if they formally got married only after Jesus was born, they spent the first 2+ years of His life away from their hometown, so it wouldn’t have been a traditional family thing anyway.)

Yes, we know Mary never actually had intercourse – but that’s not what the general public would have assumed. Thus it would have been thought kind of silly to expect her to be a virgin on the wedding night even if they thought she and Joseph were having normal relations.
 

JAMES - The Apocryphal New Testament : James : Free Download, Borrow, and…

THE APOCRYPHAL NEW TESTAMENT newly translated by James Montague Rhodes, 1924, 1983,Being the Apocryphal Gospels, Acts Epistles, and Apocalypses with other…
This is pretty cool! I skimmed it, and it looks like some good reading. Not Scripture, not binding on the faithful, there is nothing in here that we have to believe, but still very interesting and thought-provoking. Possibly a safer alternative to The Poem of the Man-God.
 
They answered (and vowed) to God. Man does not enter into the picture - except to write the prophecy by the Holy Spirit.

You see, one’s word actually meant something back then.

Not all old-fashioned things are bad.
 
Since lying is intrinsically evil according to the Church, and Mary was a perpetual virgin, how did she and St. Joseph present the tokens of virginity? How did she prove it?
The Infancy Gospel of James, from which the traditional understanding of this doctrine was received, describes the process.
 
Yes, there’s a lot to read in M. R. James’ Apocryphal NT. There is now a newer edition, edited by somebody else, that includes new manuscripts discovered since James’ day, but the old edition is good enough for me. My secondhand copy, bought around 2000, cost me all of $30 at the time.
 
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That it wasn’t necessary makes sense, thank you all for answering. I’ll look into the marriage practices more, maybe Bill (the lecturer who said they lied to the village) is confusing verses about the tokens, and has made a hard interpretation where there doesn’t need to be one. I also believe in the sinlessness of Joseph (though he has original sin) so that made it worse
 
The Infancy Gospel of James, from which the traditional understanding of this doctrine was received, describes the process.
Is the Infancy Gospel of James the same as the Protevangelium of James (which I linked to above) or a different book?
 
Same document.
Where does it describe the process? Are you referring to Chapter XVI, where Mary and Joseph are both made to drink “the water of the conviction of the Lord”?
 
It seems it was less of a proving it to someone and more just a keeping up appearances, since Mary was known to be pregnant early by others in the village, but Joseph and Mary seem to have pretended like that didn’t happen and may have directly lied about it publicly for honor reasons (even though it was known to be a lie). Whether or not pretending like everything was fine before others and lying is the key thing. The groom and family but seems that it is claimed that presenting this sheet was just a standard for the marriage ceremony or they made up one as people were expected to have it, idk if that’s a sin or not. But I’ll look it up more to see if that was a standard
We can explain this with pretty simple logic.

In ancient Israel, there was no “engagement” like there is today. The bethotal was the legal marriage and then the cermony happened later, once the Jewish home was ready.

Actually, orthodox & conservatives Jews still do this today, however, they do both ceremonies typically on the same day (instead of weeks or months apart).

When Mary visited St. Elizabeth, she was already “legally married.”

When she returned from St. Elizabeth, she was already visibly pregnant. All that was required was St. Joseph to not object to Mary’s situation and claim Jesus as his own.

He could do what without lying.

You will also notice, that NO WHERE in Scripture do the Pharisees or towns folk acknowledged that Jesus is adopted by St. Joseph.

What most likely happened is that most people assumed that Mary and Joseph had sexual relations before she left for Elizabeth, and while they didn’t like it - because St. Joseph didn’t complain, she was not stoned.

There would have been no need for a “token” because she was visibly pregnant when she returned from St. Elizabeth.

The problem with fundamentalists (like in this video) is that they are often too preoccupied with trying to use Scripture against Catholics that they fail to use logic.
 
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I see. Thank you! M. R. James apparently evades the issue in his translation, which you can read on p. 47 in the book I linked to. He writes, “And Salome made trial and cried out and said: …”.
 
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