How did Satan Fall?

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Most of what I have read has been about why Satan and a third of the angels fell.

But I haven’t come across anything in our theology that has explained how such a thing occurred…How could an angel choose to reject God when I was given the impression that angels do not have free will.

The way I have seen it: Angel means messenger of God- that would make them a tool for us between God and his creation; without his creation God would have no need for messengers, at least as distinguishable as we have them- seen we have a “dominion” over creation and we are told that Adam assisted God in naming the living creatures:
19 And the Lord God having formed out of the ground all the beasts of the earth, and all the fowls of the air, brought them to Adam to see what he would call them: for whatsoever Adam called any living creature the same is its name. 20 And Adam called all the beasts by their names, and all the fowls of the air, and all the cattle of the field: but for Adam there was not found a helper like himself.
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Genesis 2: 19-20

Does this mean that Adam also assisted in the “formation” of angels as messengers?

More importantly, does this mean that Adam assigned Satan his position?

Where am I going wrong?
Could anyone give me sources/information on the traditional view of how angels could fall without the ability to have free will?
 
Where did you learn that angels don’t have free will? I was always taught that angels have free will just like us but angels only had to make one decision and that decision was whether to choose God or to reject God.
 
Isa 14:12
(DRB) How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, who didst rise in the morning? how art thou fallen to the earth, that didst wound the nations?

(KJV) How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
 
I believe I learnt it years ago from a parish priest. But admittedly it is not a topic I am very well versed in and spend a lot of time on- it is just something that has been slightly bugging me and I haven’t come across an answer as of yet.

I know the Fourth Lateran Council declared that angels were created previous to man; but from our persepective they weren’t known by us until we had cognition. And throughout the Bible we told that angels help administer and lend assistance. I found the priest’s answer reasonable because God would not send messangers who could suddenly choose to reject God and be condemned. Furthermore, since God isn’t the origin of evil and sin- how can he have messengers who could choose to be evil and sinful- unless those messengers where chosen as such by beings with free will. Just as angels are to assist in our well being, we have fallen angels who assist and tempt us when we reject what is good and right- ultimately is it up to us to give into such temptations, which is why we are responsible, right?

So could you help me by showing me where I am in error?
 
lak611 said:
Isa 14:12
(DRB) How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, who didst rise in the morning? how art thou fallen to the earth, that didst wound the nations?

(KJV) How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
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My argument isn’t against Satan being a real figure who fell that tempts us to sin and leads us astray from God. That is apart of the why aspect…I’m curious as to how we got to that point…
 
Yes, I would like to see a staff apologist weigh in on this topic. The thing that puzzles me is, if we are to be completely happy in Heaven, why would Lucifer and 1/3 of the angels choose to leave?
 
Larry1700 said:
Yes, I would like to see a staff apologist weigh in on this topic. The thing that puzzles me is, if we are to be completely happy in Heaven, why would Lucifer and 1/3 of the angels choose to leave?
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I’m glad to see I am not the only person curious on this topic- I was thinking of going to the ask the apologist forums; but I am not the most concise in thought, and I was afraid that I might word it so that the intent of my question is lost…
 
Larry1700 said:
Yes, I would like to see a staff apologist weigh in on this topic. The thing that puzzles me is, if we are to be completely happy in Heaven, why would Lucifer and 1/3 of the angels choose to leave?
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It was due to pride. Lucifer (Satan) wanted to be equal to God, and his pride led to his fall, as the verse I quoted from Isaiah states.“Isa 14:11 Thy pride is brought down to hell, thy carcass is fallen down: under thee shall the moth be strewed, and worms shall be thy covering.
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, who didst rise in the morning? how art thou fallen to the earth, that didst wound the nations?
Isa 14:13 And thou saidst in thy heart: I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God, I will sit in the mountain of the covenant, in the sides of the north.”(Douay-Rheims Version)
 
To my understanding this battle between Lucifer and the fallen angels occurred at the beginning of time before the earth or anything known to man was created. At this point the angels were created, all had free will and were given a choice. They could either worship and follow God or reject God. Lucifer, being the most beautiful and prideful and cocky of the angels thought he could take God on and be the supreme ruler. He certainly was wrong but unfortunately many of the angels joined him. I assume after this battle in which Lucifer was defeated, God created Hell as a place for Lucifer and the fallen angels who did not want to submit to God. For the rest, as in the angles who chose to submit to God and accept him, they were allowed into Heaven and informed how they will be God’s messangers throughout time. I don’t think the angels were in Heaven before they made this choice.
 
It was due to pride.
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Yes, I remember the pride factor. I just don’t remember how Lucifer could even have had the desire to be superior to God, when Heaven is a place of eternal happiness. If you’re completely happy, then you want for nothing (or so I would think).
 
I don’t think there was a Heaven yet at the beginning of time when the angels were created
 
Larry1700 said:
Yes, I remember the pride factor. I just don’t remember how Lucifer could even have had the desire to be superior to God, when Heaven is a place of eternal happiness. If you’re completely happy, then you want for nothing (or so I would think).
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I believe this was asked on CA Live recently and the guest responded that some theologians think it was revealed to the angels (or maybe it didn’t have to be revealed since there’s no “time” in heaven) that God would become man and Lucifer refused to worship God in the form of a created being.

I’d like to read more on this, too.
 
Holy Scripture does not declare anywhere that angels have no free will so I don’t know where your priest got that idea from. Angels are not men, but clearly Satan is no robot. He told Eve, “you shall be as gods, knowing good and evil”. That is what moved him to rebel and so therefore that is what he used on Eve.
 
ALotLessThumb said:
Most of what I have read has been about why Satan and a third of the angels fell.

But I haven’t come across anything in our theology that has explained how such a thing occurred…How could an angel choose to reject God when I was given the impression that angels do not have free will.

The way I have seen it: Angel means messenger of God- that would make them a tool for us between God and his creation; without his creation God would have no need for messengers, at least as distinguishable as we have them- seen we have a “dominion” over creation and we are told that Adam assisted God in naming the living creatures:

Genesis 2: 19-20

Does this mean that Adam also assisted in the “formation” of angels as messengers?

More importantly, does this mean that Adam assigned Satan his position?

Where am I going wrong?
Could anyone give me sources/information on the traditional view of how angels could fall without the ability to have free will?
Click to expand...
The Reformed position which covers the fall of Lucifer, from the Belgic Confession Article 12

““We believe that the Father, by the Word, that is, by his Son, hath created of nothing, the heaven, the earth, and all creatures, as it seemed good unto him, giving unto every creature its being, shape, form, and several offices to serve its Creator. That he doth also still uphold and govern them by his eternal providence, and infinite power, for the service of mankind, to the end that man may serve his God. He also created the angels good, to be his messengers and to serve his elect; some of which are fallen from that excellency, in which God created them, into everlasting perdition; and the others have, by the grace of God, remained steadfast and continued in their primitive state. The devils and evil spirits are so depraved, that they are enemies of God and every good thing, to the utmost of their power, as murderers, watching to ruin the Church and every member thereof, and by their wicked stratagems to destroy all; and are, therefore, by their own wickedness, adjudged to eternal damnation, daily expecting their horrible torments. Therefore we reject and abhor the error of the Sadducees, who deny the existence of spirits and angels: and also that of the Manichees, who assert that the devils have their origin of themselves, and that they are wicked of their own nature, without having been corrupted.””
 
When the first order of angels fell from the angelic glory and became demons, the other nine orders humbled themselves and worshipped the All-holy Trinity, and remained in their place and rejoiced forever. We, too, my brethren, must reflect what an evil thing pride is - that it cast down the devil from angelic glory and he will always burn in Hell - and that humility kept the angels in Heaven, and they rejoice perpetually in the glory of the Holy Trinity. Let us then, my brethren, avoid pride, because it is the first daughter of the devil, is a path that leads to Hell;; and let us have humility, because it is angelic, is a path that leads to Paradise.
St. Cosmas Aitolos, Teachings (selections)
 
Just a thought, but heaven is a place of eternal happiness only for those who have accepted their roles as Children of God and accepted God’s love as being the guiding force of our existence. Satan and his minions obviously didn’t accept their roles so they would not have been happy in heaven. I personally kind of like the notion in the Eastern Orthodox Church that all are brought into heaven, but it becomes Hell for those who will not accept God’s love.

–
Bill
 
I was under the impression that before the fall of Satan, the angels did not enjoy the Beatific vision (seeing God face-to-face) much like Adam and Eve – they had a relationship with God, but did not “see” Him. Since their intellect and will is far, far superior to our own, their decision to follow or to not follow God was a one time choice. Some speculate that the angels were told that at some point, God Himself, would take flesh. Remaining with God was conditional on their willingness to accept this truth. Being very proud, Satan and quite of few others refused to worship the God-Man and were banished to hell for all eternity.
 
I, too, have heard that Satan was give the vision of God becoming Man in Jesus Christ, and Satan refused to bow down and worship a “lesser creature”.

What scares me the most is that pride is what condemned Satan for all of eternity, and pride is the hardest temptation for me resist.
 
And now that I think about it, a nun back in grade school told me that Lucifer refused to worship God as a man as well. This must be the answer since so many of us have heard it.
 
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