How did the Catholic church start?

[planter654]

So boast of what you have received for all have received so, so, so, no one can boast even the Catholic Church for they have received also. And I am Catholic, but I am “no more important” or “more valuable than anyone” or “better than any one”, that is up to God.---- For God will judge all.

God Bless giving in Love and thanks and all praise and glory to God for what I have received, for if I boast I boast only of God!

 

[planter654]

Planter,
I don’t know about anyone else but I have found your post to be extremely confusing. It sounds like on one hand you are defending the Church on the other hand trying to deny the Church. Pentecost is called the birthday of the Church as that is when the Church officially came into being.

As far as Constantine, he was 4th century. His Edict of Milan was issued in 313 A.D. This was when Constantine made it safe to be a Christian.

You are right and thank you for the correction. I am not trying to deny the Church sorry if it comes across that way. Pentecost is called the birthday of the Church. Please explain to you mean the Catholic church today. But the Catholic Church did not come into being till when?

But there was already hundreds of churches in Turkey who believed in God and Jesus Christ, were they not before the Catholic Church came into existence.

Thanks God Bless

 

[planter654]

** planter654**, I know that you were saying that surely there is some truth in this article. Often, though not always, the truth is somewhere between two positions. This is one of the cases where the truth is definitely all on one side, however.

I hope that you’ll find my response to this article useful.

The article you linked actually sabotages its claims critically from its own mouth, right in the beginning.

Just look at this. In one sentence, this Protestant article acknowledges that all the Early Church Fathers, the immediate successors and friends of the disciples who received their doctrine straight from Christ, were pretty much Catholic! In fact, it starts the point of departure from Christian teachings at 65 AD!!! That acknowledges that the entire Early Church was pretty much Catholic right from its origins!

It’s true that it says that this was a gradual process. It probably asserts that because we don’t have testimony from the first century AD about every Catholic doctrine. As we get the records of more and more Church Fathers, the teaching of the Early Church becomes more and more clear. That doesn’t mean that their beliefs were changing- only that our documentation of what they believed has become more thorough.

I find this an amazing and wonderful admission of this article. In order to back its claims, it has to argue that all the Early Christians were pretty much Catholic and falling into paganism, and that therefore nobody had it right after the first apostles died, until the Reformation! It has to say that Jesus initiated a religion and no one followed it properly until the Reformation, 1,500 years after Christianity began. In fact, in view of the fact that the Early Reformers all believed in things like the immaculate conception, the perpetual virginity of Mary, and the authority of a church hierarchy, it’s probable that they’d actually have to say that nobody had it right until the 19th or 20th century.

The admission of this article that the Early Church Fathers were Catholic is enormously destructive to its claims.

The New Testament also uses the word “bishop” to describe the apostles, and the epistles refer to a church hierarchy on several occasions.

The Old Covenant practice was always very ritualistic. Christianity has also always involved ritual and symbol. Jesus implemented things that carried ritualistic and symbolic significance as well as dynamic spiritual reality, such as baptism and the Eucharist. Those are rituals as well as mighty spiritual realities. Ironically, many Protestant groups now refuse to acknowledge the spiritual power of these sacraments and believe that they are purely symbolic. In other words, they consider them to be only ritual, and practice them as only ritual and as nothing more.

Here’s a quote I found from a Catholic who could defend it:

I have trouble understanding what this point is. The crucial importance of baptism in cleansing a person of sins is clear in many passages of the New Testament. Besides, new believers had to go through a Confirmation process to ensure they knew the doctrines of the Church (a practice now completely rejected in many Protestant denominations), as well as a long waiting period as they adjusted to Christian life and beliefs (could last years), and Church doctrine was enforced on pain of excommunication. Heresies were vigorously fought.

Oh! thank you God Bless

 

[planter654]

You are right and thank you for the correction. I am not trying to deny the Church sorry if it comes across that way. Pentecost is called the birthday of the Church. Please explain to you mean the Catholic church today. But the Catholic Church did not come into being till when?

But there was already hundreds of churches in Turkey who believed in God and Jesus Christ, were they not before the Catholic Church came into existence.

Thanks God Bless

Please explain to me why Pentecost is called the birthday of the Catholic Church. Did not the Catholic Church build its faith on the early Churches of Christ. “Not the other way around”.

For the Catholic Church was not the first church to believe in God and in Jesus Christ. Like all the hundreds of under ground cities with built catherdals in Turkey. The Catholic Church did not even exist then.

To me it would be like we live on earth now I am going to go to another planted and start and build another earth,using the same pattern, ideas, plans etc from what "I saw and learnt how to do on the first earth, but say after that the “first earth” is not the “first true earth” now, my earth is and always was the first earth? Do I sound crazy, I know I am confused.

I would love to hear our Catholic Church boast only of what it has received.
Thanks God Bless

 

[Lief_Erikson]

John was the last of the apostles left at that time. John was in his old age when he wrote the book of revelations in prision. John by this time had not seen Jesus for at least 65 yrs. John sent his instructions to the church in Philadelphia. That is why in the book of Revelation it mentions only the 7 Churches that existed. Could that be why the Catholic Church is not mentioned because it did not exist at that time yet.It had not been exstablished yet when John was in prision on the island of Patmos, the island was a prison island used by the Roman Empire.

God Bless

The first reference in the Early Church Fathers to the “Catholic” Church was by Ignatius around 90 AD, if I’m not mistaken. That would have been about sixty years after Christ’s resurrection. Not long.

But the Bible certainly refers to it. In Acts, we read about Peter leading the elders of the Church in discussion of whether or not the Gentiles would be accepted as Christians. When the Council was divided, Peter gave the final word and everyone fell into line. Their decision became the practice of the whole Early Church.

There also are several passages where Paul says that heretics, or people who come to believers with a doctrine that differs from that which the apostles gave them, should be cast out of the church. Believers should have nothing to do with them, Paul says. For this punishment of heretics to be possible, the apostles must have been united in doctrine. Else they would have been excommunicating one another. The freedom to believe what one wanted about Christian doctrine was never a practice in the Early Church. For heretics to exist, orthodoxy must exist. There must have been unity and agreement on doctrine among all the faithful, or false doctrines such as those Paul condemned in the Epistles could not have been rejected, and adherents to those beliefs could not otherwise be called heretics. To call someone else a heretic for doctrinal deviation, you must have a universal Church, a universal agreement on what doctrine is.

There also are repeated references to bishops in the New Testament, and there are references to ordaining church leaders and choosing successors wisely. Hierarchy and uniformity were clearly both taught in the New Testament.

Now I exhort you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all agree and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be made complete in the same mind and in the same judgment. For I have been informed concerning you, my brethren, by Chloe’s people, that there are quarrels among you. Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, “I am of Paul,” and “I am of Apollos,” and “I of Cephas,” and “I of Christ.” Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, so that no one would say you were baptized in my name. Now I did baptize also the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized any other. For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void.

This appeal against divisions within the Church, hierarchically or doctrinally, is very important. The unity he pled for was achieved in the Catholic Church, and Christendom was united around its doctrines from the origin of Christianity. The Eastern Orthodox damaged the unity, but they were still the “sister church.” The Reformation shattered Christendom’s unity, however, doing irrepairable damage. There is no way that Protestants can now say, “we all agree and there are no divisions among us, but we are now complete in the same mind and in the same judgment.” Instead, Protestants must say, “we are united about the essential doctrines of Christianity.” Those essentials, among conservatives, are radically fewer than they were in the days of the Reformation. The Reformers would have burned at the stake the conservative Christians of today who laud the Reformers as their forebears. Among liberal Christians, the essentials of Christianity are reduced to an even smaller number. Among some, if one simply loves one’s neighbor and loves God, that is enough. Many disregard not only Church authority, but Biblical authority too. Some strip Christianity down to the point that “if you have a faith, that’s enough. Just believe in something.” Many conservatives of today see those views as heretical. The views of conservative Protestants today would have been seen as heretical by the Reformers. It’s a steadily disintegrating structure.

Paul said that no one had the right to deviate from the gospel he had given believers (1 Timothy 1:8-11). And in Galations 1:8-9, he says, “But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!”

Paul’s use of the word “we” to refer to the gospel the disciples are passing on shows that the Church was united in its teaching.

Acts 15 shows that there was also a universal authority. Titus, Timothy and Acts all have scriptures referring to hierarchy, and in many of the Epistles, Paul gives commands to his flock, commanding them to believe certain teachings, to teach those teachings and to hold to those teachings in practice. The New Testament church leaders both advocate and practice a unity of belief and the right of the church hierarchy to produce definitive interpretations of Biblical passages.

 

[planter654]

** planter654**, I know that you were saying that surely there is some truth in this article. Often, though not always, the truth is somewhere between two positions. This is one of the cases where the truth is definitely all on one side, however.

I hope that you’ll find my response to this article useful.

The article you linked actually sabotages its claims critically from its own mouth, right in the beginning.

Just look at this. In one sentence, this Protestant article acknowledges that all the Early Church Fathers, the immediate successors and friends of the disciples who received their doctrine straight from Christ, were pretty much Catholic! In fact, it starts the point of departure from Christian teachings at 65 AD!!! That acknowledges that the entire Early Church was pretty much Catholic right from its origins!

It’s true that it says that this was a gradual process. It probably asserts that because we don’t have testimony from the first century AD about every Catholic doctrine. As we get the records of more and more Church Fathers, the teaching of the Early Church becomes more and more clear. That doesn’t mean that their beliefs were changing- only that our documentation of what they believed has become more thorough.

I find this an amazing and wonderful admission of this article. In order to back its claims, it has to argue that all the Early Christians were pretty much Catholic and falling into paganism, and that therefore nobody had it right after the first apostles died, until the Reformation! It has to say that Jesus initiated a religion and no one followed it properly until the Reformation, 1,500 years after Christianity began. In fact, in view of the fact that the Early Reformers all believed in things like the immaculate conception, the perpetual virginity of Mary, and the authority of a church hierarchy, it’s probable that they’d actually have to say that nobody had it right until the 19th or 20th century.

The admission of this article that the Early Church Fathers were Catholic is enormously destructive to its claims.

The New Testament also uses the word “bishop” to describe the apostles, and the epistles refer to a church hierarchy on several occasions.

The Old Covenant practice was always very ritualistic. Christianity has also always involved ritual and symbol. Jesus implemented things that carried ritualistic and symbolic significance as well as dynamic spiritual reality, such as baptism and the Eucharist. Those are rituals as well as mighty spiritual realities. Ironically, many Protestant groups now refuse to acknowledge the spiritual power of these sacraments and believe that they are purely symbolic. In other words, they consider them to be only ritual, and practice them as only ritual and as nothing more.

Here’s a quote I found from a Catholic who could defend it:

I have trouble understanding what this point is. The crucial importance of baptism in cleansing a person of sins is clear in many passages of the New Testament. Besides, new believers had to go through a Confirmation process to ensure they knew the doctrines of the Church (a practice now completely rejected in many Protestant denominations), as well as a long waiting period as they adjusted to Christian life and beliefs (could last years), and Church doctrine was enforced on pain of excommunication. Heresies were vigorously fought.

Christ walked the earth all who believed were Catholics. would we be also right in saying Moses wasn’t Moses he was our Catholic Pope then also?

God Bless

 

[Lief_Erikson]

Oh! thank you God Bless

Post 38 was also to you. So is 45. I hope they also may help answer your questions.

If there are points in there where my information isn’t specific enough, feel free to ask for more details. I’m just a nut about these topics, absolutely obsessed. I’m in the process now of converting from Protestantism to Catholicism, so I’ve been poring over this information a lot. Actually, my poring over this information is one of a few very good reasons why I’m becoming Catholic.

Anyway, this is why you’re getting such long replies from me . I’m just intense.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

Christ walked the earth all who believed were Catholics. would we be also right in saying Moses wasn’t Moses he was our Catholic Pope then also?

God Bless

Huh? Sorry, just a little thrown by this .

I’d answer no, for a few reasons. One was that the Church was only formed by Christ, and the Old Testament prophets, according to the scripture, could only be made perfect in unity with us. They had to wait for unity with us, for perfection in Christ’s crucifixion and resurrection, before they could be fully perfected and glorified.

In one relevant scripture, Jesus said that he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than John the Baptist. This is because he adhered to the Old Covenant, which was the Law. He did not taste of the Church in his life.

One could say that Moses resembled the Catholic Pope in some ways. In fact, he could be seen as a type of the pope, if you will. He had both political and religious authority (as the popes did in the Medieval Ages, though their political authority is now weaker than it once was). He taught the people the word of God. He was the religious head of God’s people, while he lived. He was not a member of the Catholic Church, however, for it was not yet formed. He was not a pope, for that is a distinct role that began with Peter, and which had specific spiritual powers that Moses lacked. For instance, the keys of heaven and earth.

So there certainly are resemblances, and I think that one could indeed say with a good deal of security that Moses was a type of the popes who were to come.

Does this really respond to your question (I hope I’m answering it directly)?

 

[planter654]

I am asking because of my ignorance but when John wrote the book of revelation ( meaning unveiling) inspired by God and delivered by Jesus in a vision to John, who fainted when he saw Jesus, because he was old and had not seen Jesus in 65 years. John wrote of the 7 churches. The 7 churches were named after the nations, that they were in right?

So why does the Catholic Church which I belong to make it more important to be known or called a Catholic rather than me becoming a child of God. For is it not all about our salvation and knowing God? When we get to heaven will there only be Catholics? Jesus gave no church titles or names he preached only of God. Jesus did not come to start “all these different religions or one religion” but to teach us, safe us for eternal salvation. This was not Jesus message at all. In what “building” we gather is not important, but rather that “we gather together” as “one” believing in and praising God—right?

God is the authority over all right, we choose to worship God where we choose to worship God in what ever Church we believe, those who truly believe what we believe in right. No can hold you under bondage any more or stop you from serving God. Will we not all be judge individually, including every church who preaches the word and truth of God.

For John had been giving a message and he acknowledged that in the book of revelations to each of the 7 churches. John told each church what was pleasing and not pleasing to God!

So when the Catholic Church started, or if it is the only true Church is not important for our salvation, but that they and we are serving God and doing all that is pleasing to him, right?

Yes I am a Catholic and it is were my faith has been build and in thanking and praising God for placing me there.

God Bless giving with Love—Worship God

God Bless

 

[Lief_Erikson]

I am asking because of my ignorance but when John wrote the book of revelation ( meaning unveiling) inspired by God and delivered by Jesus in a vision to John, who fainted when he saw Jesus, because he was old and had not seen Jesus in 65 years. John wrote of the 7 churches. The 7 churches were named after the nations, that they were in right?

The churches were separated only geographically, not doctrinally, as far as I know.

So why does the Catholic Church which I belong to make it more important to be known or called a Catholic rather than me becoming a child of God.

It’s not an either/or- they’re both true names by which you could be called. Catholic is commonly used, I think, because it shows more clearly what you believe. Denominationalism is such a problem that the universality of the Catholic Church (Catholic means universal) is a very important concept in this culture, and the word Catholic also shows people what you believe, which is also useful in a practical way. Covers a lot of ground fast . But “child of God” is also perfectly accurate, and it’s a more intimate name.

For is it not all about our salvation and knowing God? When we get to heaven will there only be Catholics?

Actually, yes (aside from non-human spiritual beings). Everyone who holds to doctrinal error and yet has a soul budding with eternal life will have their fault purged out of them in Purgatory. Nothing impure can exist in heaven.

Jesus gave no church titles or names he preached only of God. Jesus did not come to start “all these different religions or one religion” but to teach us, safe us for eternal salvation.

Actually, Jesus did say, “I am the truth,” not, “I am a truth.” His apostles in the Epistles and the Early Church writings clearly said that there was only one true religion. This was what Christ founded. It is the way to salvation, and no one can have salvation outside of it. As Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth and the life; no one can come to the Father except through me.” This is the way by which we can be saved for eternal salvation! Hallelujah. We shall come into complete perfection through Jesus’ blood, not only partial perfection .

This was not Jesus message at all. In what “building” we gather is not important, but rather that “we gather together” as “one” believing in and praising God—right?

The building we gather in is not important, I agree. “Church” refers to a gathering of believers, not to a building. The “Catholic” Church means “Universal” Church, also. It means that this is the only Church, the Church that applies to everyone. Everything that is sinful within us, or impure, or untrue, is going to be purged out of us, praise be to the Lord. We will be wholly perfect. Whether Protestant or Orthodox or Catholic, all of us have sins of different kinds. Some of the sins of Protestants are holding to various false doctrines in rejection of the truth. These sins, and all the various sins that all of us commit, will be purged out of us as we come closer to God’s throne. Unless we cling to our sins so hard and so perniciously that we sever ourselves forever from God, through our own relentless and foolish willpower. If we will repent and submit ourselves to God, we will be saved. Bit by bit .

God is the authority over all right, we choose to worship God where we choose to worship God in what ever Church we believe, those who truly believe what we believe in right. No can hold you under bondage any more or stop you from serving God. Will we not all be judge individually, including every church who preaches the word and truth of God.

Yes, we’ll all be judged individually by God. The doctrines we hold to do matter. The building does not. If we hold to false doctrines, then we’re either sinning or just too ignorant to have any clue that our fault exists, and so guiltless. For we’re slandering the nature of God and denying his authority and his words of truth. That’s evil, just as Eve’s sin of refusing to believe God was evil. But, praise be to God, our Lord is incredibly merciful and reaches us all where we are, to guide us toward himself.

For John had been giving a message and he acknowledged that in the book of revelations to each of the 7 churches. John told each church what was pleasing and not pleasing to God!

Right, and the reason he had that authority is that his teaching came from Christ, and the Catholic Church was united and in agreement with him! He was high in the church hierarchy and so had the authority to pass on such teaching. If the churches had been split, had possessed their own authority structures, John would not have had the authority to give them commands. So the unity of the Church matters, and is wonderful in God’s hands.

So when the Catholic Church started, or if it is the only true Church is not important for our salvation, but that they and we are serving God and doing all that is pleasing to him, right?

Being part of the true Church is part of what it means to do all that is pleasing to God. He wants everyone to be in the true Church, so joining it is pleasing to him.

Yes I am a Catholic and it is were my faith has been build and in thanking and praising God for placing me there.

Praise the Lord .

God Bless giving with Love—Worship God

God Bless

You too .

~Lief

 

[planter654]

But what I am saying when the Catholic Church started is not or should not be my concern or what is important to me. For I and I alone will have to answer for my sins and my choices and how I served or if I obeyed God laws right?–for all have heard and those who haven’t lies only with God? If someone chooses to go to a different Church, it is not the Churches fault what a soul chooses. But what should be the Church main concern is that they are serving God, preaching the gospels in building up the Kingdom of God–right. I pray for all churches who proclaim the word of God that God will grant them the wisdom, understanding and knowledge to serve God for the salvaiton of souls. Whether we are Catholics, Protestants, Muslims , Jews extra there is only “ONE God” who created all. God Bless

 

[Gamera]

But what I am saying when the Catholic Church started is not or should not be my concern or what is important to me. For I and I alone will have to answer for my sins and my choices and how I served or if I obeyed God laws right?–for all have heard and those who haven’t lies only with God? If someone chooses to go to a different Church, it is not the Churches fault what a soul chooses. But what should be the Church main concern is that they are serving God, preaching the gospels in building up the Kingdom of God–right. I pray for all churches who proclaim the word of God that God will grant them the wisdom, understanding and knowledge to serve God for the salvaiton of souls. Whether we are Catholics, Protestants, Muslims , Jews extra there is only “ONE God” who created all. God Bless

Yes, there is only one God, and we are expected to relate to Him on His terms, not on our terms. Jesus did indeed found a specific Church (“On this rock I will build my church”). Of course it is good for members of other religions to love God, nobody disputes that, but the quality of a person’s relationship with God is influenced by whether he belongs to the Church founded by Jesus or to a sect founded by men.

 

[Sabda]

The Catholic Church is NOT a building. The Catholic Church is the Body of Christ, with Christ as the head. The head is ALWAYS in control of the body. That is simple biology. St. Paul preached quite eloquently on this in a number of his epistles. The Catholic Church consist of those not only on earth but also in Purgatory and in Heaven.

Jesus did not start churches but A church. He, himself, even stated that the gates of hell would NOT prevail against his Church. His Church is protected from hell. Hell can not ever over take the Church. Individual people do not get such protection.

Matt 16
18
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, 13 and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.

Jesus also stated if you have a problem with someone take it to the Church(one Church) and if that person will not listen EVEN TO THE CHURCH to treat them as a tax collector or gentile. His Church has authority on earth.

Matt 18
15
11 "If your brother 12 sins (against you), go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother.
16
13 If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that ‘every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.’
17
If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. 14 If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.

The decisions that are made on earth are accepted in heaven as well.

Matt 18
18
15 Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

As far as the 7 churches in Revelation. They are all apart of the one Church. They are what we would refer to as parishes today. There was only one gospel that was preached not many. The different Christian faiths in the world today do not preach the same doctrine. Some of them are closer than others but it’s still not the same. The Apostles had strong words about this very thing.

1 Tim
3
2 I repeat the request I made of you when I was on my way to Macedonia, that you stay in Ephesus to instruct certain people not to teach false doctrines

Before Jesus died he also prayed that we would all be one as he and the Father are one(John 17:21). How can we all be one if we don’t have the same beliefs? Do Jesus and the Father disagree or are they in agreement on everything? If they are in agreement on everything than shouldn’t we, Christians, also be in agreement with each other? How can we be the “light of the world” if we are not in agreement?

The many different Christians faiths and beliefs does nothing but confuse non-believers. Those are the ones we need to be taking the Gospel too. So yes, it does matter.

Have you ever read the Catechism or the Compendium of the Catechism?

 

[Lief_Erikson]

But what I am saying when the Catholic Church started is not or should not be my concern or what is important to me.

Everyone who holds to doctrinal error or any kind of sin will lose these sins in Purgatory, if they do not on Earth. They will go through the pain of withdrawal and the joy of recovery of God’s kingdom to fill its place. Knowing when the Catholic Church started helps one to see that it is the true religion. Holding to more and more truth will bless one more and more. And ensure that one is saved.

For I and I alone will have to answer for my sins and my choices and how I served or if I obeyed God laws right?–for all have heard and those who haven’t lies only with God?

The serpent in the Garden of Eden committed no sins except telling lies. The serpent told Eve that it was a good thing to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. She chose to believe the snake rather than God, thus putting her own intellect above faith in the Lord and sinning out of unbelief and disobedience. She was punished for her actions, and the snake was punished for its words.

When people haven’t heard God, it is our calling to help them. They are destroying themselves in their unbelief. Perhaps their ignorance and limit their guilt, but their misery will be just as intense, and they will have to give up, ultimately, all the sins they are taking on themselves if they are to see God.

If someone chooses to go to a different Church, it is not the Churches fault what a soul chooses.

As I said earlier, there can be two blames, here. The deceived soul is to blame for its sin of rejecting the true Church. If people in the Catholic Church he had been attending turned him off of the true faith by representing it poorly, then they’re to blame for their poor behavior too. So each is guilty for his own sin, but if one’s own sins cause another person to sin, then that is another sin one has committed and is responsible for.

But what should be the Church main concern is that they are serving God, preaching the gospels in building up the Kingdom of God–right. I pray for all churches who proclaim the word of God that God will grant them the wisdom, understanding and knowledge to serve God for the salvaiton of souls. Whether we are Catholics, Protestants, Muslims , Jews extra there is only “ONE God” who created all. God Bless

It’s true that God created everyone. I don’t know what that really has to do with it, though . . . I guess I’m not fully understanding your logic .

But what I said first is what’s most important, in this post. Knowing when the Catholic Church started and that Catholicism is the one true religion is crucial to salvation. Everyone will have to accept this eventually if they are to be saved. All beliefs that differ from Catholic teaching are destructive. Union with the only truth saves.

Knowing when the Catholic Church started helps people to know that it is the true religion, and this gives them reason to hold fast to Catholicism and so to saving and deeply blessing truth.

You said that, “the Church main concern is that they are serving God, preaching the gospels in building up the Kingdom of God.” These are indeed crucial functions of the Church. You’re right about that. And being able to tell people the truth about when the Church was founded helps to build up the Kingdom of God, for it is one more evidence supporting the Church’s claims about its identity, and thus can lead people to Catholicism and eternal life.

 

[guanophore]

No one can say who is greater than another---- for all have received the grace of God even the Catholic Church! Yes, I am Catholic, but I obey God and worship God only.

Yes all have received grace from God. However, if you do not obey the authority that Jesus left in charge of His Church, then you are not Catholic. :dts:

Constantine established the Roman Church and stopped the prescution of those other churches that already were long before exstablished.

God Bless

No, planter, Constantine did not establish the Church in Rome either. Peter did that. On the day of Pentecost, there were pilgrims from Rome that responded to Peter’s first sermon, were baptized, and returned to Rome. Paul wrote to them the letter of Romans, then Peter and Paul both labored their until they were martyrd by the Pagan Roman Emperor. All this happened centuries before Constantine was a gleam in his fathers eye.

 

[HalfAngel_18]

so, if the “Church of Christ” faith community, which only adheres to the New Testament, were to tell you that they are the original (because afterall, they call themselves the church of Christ), what would you think.

.

I would think the same thing I’m thinking now, that everyone is saying “We are the original” and not everyone can be right. I really don’t know that much about any religions…so I wouldn’t have enough information to say they are wrong or to say they are right and I would ask people questions and research it until I did have enough information to decide. Right now, I know most about the Catholic church because that’s what I’ve been for all my life…but I’ve only been Catholic because my parents are. Now I’m trying to find out more about them all and really finding out what the Catholic church is all about. I don’t always know what questions to ask though.

 

[HalfAngel_18]

HalfAngel 18, I didn’t want these points to be overlooked.

St. Paul calls himself “father” in 1 Cor. 4:15. “For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.” That is the sense in which we call priests father – as a term of affection and respect.

Obviously Jesus did not mean literally not to call our biological father “father,” so then what did He mean? He meant we must recognize God as the source of all fatherhood.

Yes, that’s exactly what the Catholic Church believes. “Christ Jesus [is] the one mediator between God and men,” Catechism of the Catholic Church 1544.

Fundamentalists often confuse Catholic belief, thinking our human priests are somehow considered “different mediators.” They aren’t. Jesus is our sole mediator. “Only Christ is the true priest, the others being only his ministers,” CCC 1545.

Yes, I’ve seen that get confused before…the whole thing with the priests and confession still off-sets me though. They ‘represent’ Jesus I was told?

 

[HalfAngel_18]

Angel you did miss it. When I clicked on the link it took me right to it.

The first “Pentecostals” in the modern sense appeared on the scene in 1901 in the city of Topeka, Kansas in …"

That’ says when the first pentecostals appeared in the modern sense…it doesn’t say that’s how they began from the biginning, it’s just talking about when they became widely known and about them growing…It doesn’t specifically say that 1901 was when the pentecostal church started.

 

[HalfAngel_18]

Continued from above

In one example St. Ignatius states in his letter to the Symerians in 107 A.D. :

Just as the name Christian developed over time so did the name of the Church. It is good that your friends are challenging you as this encourages you to learn about your faith.

Another really good resource is Bible Christian Society. John has free downloads on their that you can listen to and help you learn to show your Catholics beliefs from the Bible.

Yeah, I go to the Bible club at my school deliberately to get questions, and it’s fun to discuss things to, because almost everyone in the group is a different branch of Christianity. ^-^ We talk about them all without anyone getting offended.

Thanks, I’ll look into the links you gave.

 

[HalfAngel_18]

John was the last of the apostles left at that time. John was in his old age when he wrote the book of revelations in prision. John by this time had not seen Jesus for at least 65 yrs. John sent his instructions to the church in Philadelphia. That is why in the book of Revelation it mentions only the 7 Churches that existed. Could that be why the Catholic Church is not mentioned because it did not exist at that time yet.It had not been exstablished yet when John was in prision on the island of Patmos, the island was a prison island used by the Roman Empire.

God Bless

Where in Revelation does it list the 7 churches? I’d like to look at that.