How did we lose them?

[cheese_sdc]

How did we lose them?

Y’all lost me in 8th grade. It just took me 'til I was 34 to un-entangle myself from Catholicism.

 

[dronald]

Y’all lost me in 8th grade. It just took me 'til I was 34 to un-entangle myself from Catholicism.

That doesn’t answer the “how.”

 

[rcwitness]

Y’all lost me in 8th grade. It just took me 'til I was 34 to un-entangle myself from Catholicism.

What would you say “entangled you by Catholicism” which witheld you from Jesus?

That doesn’t answer the “how.”

Thanks dronald

Paz de Cristo

 

[cheese_sdc]

What would you say “entangled you by Catholicism” which witheld you from Jesus?

I’m no longer Christian. By the time I was in 8th grade, I had decided on being agnostic. However, that was not acceptable to my family, so I had to wear the mask of Catholicism. I wore it so long and so convincingly that I got lost in the role.

Disentangling myself from that took two decades and a failed marriage.

That doesn’t answer the “how.”

It started with reading “Cosmos” in the 8th grade.

 

[rcwitness]

I’m no longer Christian. By the time I was in 8th grade, I had decided on being agnostic. However, that was not acceptable to my family, so I had to wear the mask of Catholicism. I wore it so long and so convincingly that I got lost in the role.

Disentangling myself from that took two decades and a failed marriage.

That sounds very complicated!

From your point of view, your parents seem negatively controlling. I find infant Baptisms with a contradicting upbring to that Baptism to be very destructive! Further, I believe Confirmation must give full freedom of consent to the candidate, without threats, contempt, indifference, and ostracizing,

As a result you fell into deceiving others.

May God give you peace and forgiveness

Paz
Michael

 

[manualman]

I see a lot of replies in this thread that seem to me to assume that Protestants, especially Evangelical Protestants and especially megachurch members, have a shallow faith.

Worthy rebuke, because that actually wasn’t my intention. My critique is not in the faith or the sincerity of the evangelical, but in the enforced shallowness of their theology and beliefs. That’s not generally the fault of the person who has been taught it and those who originated it are long dead.

It’s roughly akin to those plastic pots nurseries often start trees growing in. It’s ideal soil, it’s watered constantly, but unless those roots can somehow punch out of that pot, the tree will never be what a tree is supposed to be, nor will it be resilient in the face of droughts or other threats.

It’s hardly arrogance to point that perspective out, especially since it’s absurd for catholics to be proud of a gift we’ve been given. As if there is any basis for pride in having something not earned… On the contrary, we’ve got MORE to answer for given our rather glaring failure to properly invest the talents we’ve been entrusted with in recent decades (if I may change metaphors!).

 

[Tom_Baum]

Christ told us one route to Heaven. Any other route *might *get someone to Heaven–we don’t know; we only know the one sure way. Thus people’s leaving the Church ought to be of concern to us.

And what is that “one route to Heaven” that “Christ told us”?

 

[christus_vincit]

And what is that “one route to Heaven” that “Christ told us”?

Baptism and incorporation into His Body.

 

[Tom_Baum]

Baptism and incorporation into His Body.

In response to my question, “And what is that “one route to Heaven” that “Christ told us”?”

Are you saying that one has to be baptized into the Roman Catholic Church in order to even have a “chance” to go to heaven?

 

[christus_vincit]

In response to my question, “And what is that “one route to Heaven” that “Christ told us”?”

Are you saying that one has to be baptized into the Roman Catholic Church in order to even have a “chance” to go to heaven?

I am saying what the Church has always taught - that Baptism into Christ’s Body which subsists in its fullness in the Catholic Church is necessary for salvation. This has always and will always be the teaching of the Church.

Now, before you pounce on me, there are MANY qualifications to this statement that must be taken into account - for example, the baptism of desire - which render this statement far less “harsh” than it appears.

 

[christus_vincit]

I am saying what the Church has always taught - that Baptism into Christ’s Body which subsists in its fullness in the Catholic Church is necessary for salvation. This has always and will always be the teaching of the Church.

Now, before you pounce on me, there are MANY qualifications to this statement that must be taken into account - for example, the baptism of desire - which render this statement far less “harsh” than it appears.

 

[St_Francis]

And what is that “one route to Heaven” that “Christ told us”?

Through the Catholic Church.

Now, people who are not visibly in the Catholic Church in this world may *possibly *be able to attain Heaven, but it is much more difficult for them because they do not get all the graces practicing Catholics get, nor do they have the knowledge.

Look at it this way: If I were stuck on a desert isle, I could make myself a rudimentary shelter. But if I were here, I could make a much better shelter–I would have knowledgeable people who could help design a house that would withstand the weather, I would have people who could help put the house together, and I would have tools available.

In the right place, I would end up with a much better chance of success.

 

[benhur]

The only assumption is the Blessed Virgin Mary, it is a phenomenon.

Took me a second or two but i finally got your point with humor.

 

[benhur]

.
Being in the Church puts Jesus in you.

Eucharist is another thread.

 

[Darryl_B]

Took me a second or two but i finally got your point with humor.

Thanks for getting my point, and while there is humor, I am also serious about Mary, she is unfortunately a stumbling stone to protestant theology, she was a problem to my theology, but she isnt any more. She does not detract from Jesus, she helps me come to Jesus, not because of me, but because Jesus loves his mum.

 

[rcwitness]

Eucharist is another thread.

You may get tired of saying that around here…

Peace
Michael

 

[rcuk]

Wow…this thread has grown a lot since I last checked in!

Thanks for all your contributions everyone. Very interesting to watch these seeds grow - it makes this forum very informative and interesting to see people’s opinions.

“I urge all Christians to stop making assumptions about their fellow Christians. Just as Protestants are wrong when they assume that all Catholics are drunkards who worship statues, Catholics are wrong to assume that all Evangelical Protestants are shallow thinkers who rely on rock music and emotions.”

Amen to this. Although I don’t think the overriding opinion of protestants is this; I think Catholics are usually first to admit to the shortfalls in the Church’s congregations and admit that often times a protestant has a deeper relationship with Christ.

I’d be bold enough to say that if I were to ever leave the Catholic church, what I would miss with all my soul and being is a the Eucharist- which is what took me from being an evangelical teen into the Catholic faith in the first place. It represents the fullness of communion with Christ, without which my soul would be starved. Add to this a sprinkle of Reconciliation and Adoration; as these would be lacking elsewhere I would find my belief system very difficult to uphold, honestly.

My other problem with movement outside of the church is ironic- that protestant churches usually attract members by how warm and friendly they are, and how vibrant the community is (generalisation- not always). BUT- I have family members who were part if this community and encountered some people who ‘turned funny’ on them. The secular world sometimes overpowers traditional Christian values and you end up with gossips, and friendships being broken.
Seems to me that this is a by-product of a church which upholds community above all else. While we have a duty to our brothers and sisters in Christ, in some small way, the colder relationships within some catholic churches at least don’t lead to fall-outs. I know this is simplistic- but I have never encountered ‘icy cold’ feedback from any one in a catholic congregation. Usually a luke warm reception is on hand. But whereas one perhaps develops friendships over time, the ‘instant hand-shake and we’re friends’ situation I encountered many times outside the catholic church is perhaps shallow, and could lead to tension later.

 

[Cat]

I’m no longer Christian. By the time I was in 8th grade, I had decided on being agnostic. However, that was not acceptable to my family, so I had to wear the mask of Catholicism. I wore it so long and so convincingly that I got lost in the role.

Disentangling myself from that took two decades and a failed marriage.

It started with reading “Cosmos” in the 8th grade.

That’s funny. My husband is was a fan of Cosmos back then, and reading/watching it (the old one with Carl Sagan) strengthen his belief in God and Christianity.

Different strokes.

 

[Cat]

Worthy rebuke, because that actually wasn’t my intention. My critique is not in the faith or the sincerity of the evangelical, but in the enforced shallowness of their theology and beliefs. That’s not generally the fault of the person who has been taught it and those who originated it are long dead.

It’s roughly akin to those plastic pots nurseries often start trees growing in. It’s ideal soil, it’s watered constantly, but unless those roots can somehow punch out of that pot, the tree will never be what a tree is supposed to be, nor will it be resilient in the face of droughts or other threats.

It’s hardly arrogance to point that perspective out, especially since it’s absurd for catholics to be proud of a gift we’ve been given. As if there is any basis for pride in having something not earned… On the contrary, we’ve got MORE to answer for given our rather glaring failure to properly invest the talents we’ve been entrusted with in recent decades (if I may change metaphors!).

I disagree strongly that Evangelicals will not be resilient in the face of droughts or other threats. I have known many thousands of Evangelical Protestants in my 56 years, and I am filled with admiration for many of them because of their steadfast and meek faith while facing incredible and painful trials and tribulations. I know missionaries who were tortured, and stood firm. I know families who have faced terrible tragedies, diseases, attacks, and unjust situations, and these families have stood firm and continued to love and serve Jesus Christ!

I know Catholics like that, too, but I also know a lot of Catholics who depart from the Church and abandon Christianity entirely because they don’t want to use NFP or because they don’t like guitars in the Mass.

Nothing stops an Evangelical Protestant from reading and studying anything they wish. There is no “Catechism” that cautions Evangelicals against reading “non-Evangelical writings” or attending “non-Evangelical fellowships.”

It is often difficult for Evangelical Protestants to physically be absent from the churches on Sundays, as they are usually involved in some kind of ministry, teaching or otherwise (e.g., playing piano or in the praise band).

But they are free to seek and find. If they choose to do a study of Islam and attend a mosque weekly, they are free to do so, and they will not feel guilty about it.

Catholics tend to feel guilty about pretty much anything they do, even how they hold their hands during the Our Father during Mass. And Catholics are told by priests and apologists, including on CAF, that they should NOT be visiting non-Catholic churches.

Until fairly recently, many Catholics never read or studied the Bible outside of Mass! There was a belief among lay Catholics that this was forbidden!

Think about how many of the contemporary Catholic apologist converts converted from Evangelical Protestantism because they were studying the writings of the Church fathers! No one stood over them with a stick and said, “No, you can’t read those writings!”

I would never call John Calvin’s “Institutes” a plastic pot. Reformed Seminarians spend several years plowing through this massive work and dissecting the theology of Calvinism.

Many Evangelical Protestant pastoral candidates are required to earn not only a Master’s Degree, but a Doctor of Divinity degree before preaching.

I would suggest that you check out an Evangelical pastor named John Ortberg. He’s out in California at Menlo Park Presbyterian Church. He will give any intellectual a workout!

Although in recent years, many Evangelical churches have abandoned real Sunday School in favor of “needs-based” groups led by “facilitators,” there are still plenty of real “classes” held in Evangelical Protestant churches for those who wish to delve deeply into the systematic theology of Evangelical Protestant Christianity and do some real studying, not just “discussing.” You’ll probably have to ask, and the pastor will tell you that yes, the theology class meets at 6:00 a.m., and only a dozen old people are in it, but they would love to have more students and younger students!

 

[rcwitness]

And Catholics are told by priests and apologists, including on CAF, that they should NOT be visiting non-Catholic churches.

Do they actually say this? Or do they teach us not to ‘replace’ a non-Catholic service with the Mass?

Peace
Michael