How divided are Protestants?

[ojohn]

I take issue with you statement. First of all, I would like anyone here to name the 33,000 plus Protestant denominations that are claimed and give a brief summary of how each individual denomination differs from the others in doctrine. I also challenge Catholics to explain how it is they are united after seeing the statistical information on how Catholics voted in this most recent presidential election. As I see it, Catholics seem to create rather than proclaim these so called divisions in other faiths. I have have yet to read where the Roman Catholic church is the one true Church that Jesus founded in the Bible.

 

[ojohn]

Where does say Bible in the Bible?

 

[JonNC]

Where does say Bible in the Bible?

On the title page.

Seriously, it does say scripture in the scriptures. It also says, “it is written”, which is a reference to scripture. We often call scripture “The Bible”. So, in the same sense that “Trinity” is in the Bible, so is Bible.

Jon

 

[jschutzm]

The 30,000+, 33,000 number I’ve heard… is supposedly pulled from the IRS, that is the number of denominations or churches they have registered in the US alone.

I think Sola Scriptura IS partial to blame because it is what causes each person to set themselves up as an authority. The numerous independent churches springing up all over the place are, in my opinion, because each person feels they have authority to independently, on their own, without any connection to an existing doctrine, privately interpret the bible and create a religion of their own choosing. I have even heard people on various forums say… “I’m thinking of starting my own religion” – this seems to have percipitated all because of the idea of “sola scriptura” Nearly EVERY Protestant I’ve talked to believes that the Holy Spirit will guide you and reveal the correct meaning of Scripture to you if you pray about it before reading the bible. Therefore in discussing matters with them… they will not entertain any other interpretation of the scripture then their own, because they feel that they have the CORRECT interpretation.

To a Catholic, this appears like they are acting “as-if” they, themselves are infallible. That they have an infallible interpretation and therefore won’t even consider another reading of scripture.

To a Catholic, this seems a direct result of the concept of sola scriptura, and the type of ideas it released into the world.

To a Catholic it seems like instead of just 1 infallible interpretation, protected and guided by Jesus, which has a direct connection back to St. Peter… We have 33,000 or more, people running around acting like they are infallible and know scripture better than anyone else. – Which to a Catholic seems MORE insane then the belief in just 1, protected source.

I know churches which are held in Movie Theatres, people’s living rooms, High School multi-purpose room, heck…there was even one which started at a Mall.
ALL of them were ‘non-denominational christian churches’ which are not bound by or in connection with any other organized or established denomination. They just preached whatever personal views of the guy who started them. More like a cult of personality, then a true church.
To a Catholic…this is the type of thing that Sola Scriptura fosters. Everyone acting like they can infallibly interpret scripture.

I happen to be married to a Baptist. Attended a Baptist Private School for 9 years because it was academically superior to the local Catholic school. So I feel like I understand both sides of the argument.

TRUE, the 33,000 denominations that the IRS recognizes are 99.9% similar in beliefs. BUT, they splintered off and are independent from each other for a reason. Because they believe that everyone can authoritatively interpret the bible, independent of anyone else because the holy spirit will guide them. All of them, act AS-IF their interpretation is infallible, rather then merely their “personal take on it”

To ME, THAT’S the danger and damage that sola scriptura did. There is NO way to reconcile the smallest difference if everyone thinks the Holy Spirit guided their interpretation. And everyone is going to lack humility. There is NO institution or person which can settle differences…so EVERYONE is infallible, if they admit it or not.
Which to me is the truly sad thing about Protestantism.

 

[JonNC]

The 30,000+, 33,000 number I’ve heard… is supposedly pulled from the IRS, that is the number of denominations or churches they have registered in the US alone.

I think Sola Scriptura IS partial to blame because it is what causes each person to set themselves up as an authority. The numerous independent churches springing up all over the place are, in my opinion, because each person feels they have authority to independently, on their own, without any connection to an existing doctrine, privately interpret the bible and create a religion of their own choosing. I have even heard people on various forums say… “I’m thinking of starting my own religion” – this seems to have percipitated all because of the idea of “sola scriptura” Nearly EVERY Protestant I’ve talked to believes that the Holy Spirit will guide you and reveal the correct meaning of Scripture to you if you pray about it before reading the bible. Therefore in discussing matters with them… they will not entertain any other interpretation of the scripture then their own, because they feel that they have the CORRECT interpretation.

To a Catholic, this appears like they are acting “as-if” they, themselves are infallible. That they have an infallible interpretation and therefore won’t even consider another reading of scripture.

To a Catholic, this seems a direct result of the concept of sola scriptura, and the type of ideas it released into the world.

To a Catholic it seems like instead of just 1 infallible interpretation, protected and guided by Jesus, which has a direct connection back to St. Peter… We have 33,000 or more, people running around acting like they are infallible and know scripture better than anyone else. – Which to a Catholic seems MORE insane then the belief in just 1, protected source.

I know churches which are held in Movie Theatres, people’s living rooms, High School multi-purpose room, heck…there was even one which started at a Mall.
ALL of them were ‘non-denominational christian churches’ which are not bound by or in connection with any other organized or established denomination. They just preached whatever personal views of the guy who started them. More like a cult of personality, then a true church.
To a Catholic…this is the type of thing that Sola Scriptura fosters. Everyone acting like they can infallibly interpret scripture.

I happen to be married to a Baptist. Attended a Baptist Private School for 9 years because it was academically superior to the local Catholic school. So I feel like I understand both sides of the argument.

TRUE, the 33,000 denominations that the IRS recognizes are 99.9% similar in beliefs. BUT, they splintered off and are independent from each other for a reason. Because they believe that everyone can authoritatively interpret the bible, independent of anyone else because the holy spirit will guide them. All of them, act AS-IF their interpretation is infallible, rather then merely their “personal take on it”

To ME, THAT’S the danger and damage that sola scriptura did. There is NO way to reconcile the smallest difference if everyone thinks the Holy Spirit guided their interpretation. And everyone is going to lack humility. There is NO institution or person which can settle differences…so EVERYONE is infallible, if they admit it or not.

If what you say is what Sola Scriptura is, properly understood, then I would agree with you. It is not, so I don’t. As a life-long Lutheran in my fifties, I never once was given a Bible and told to go read it, and that the Holy Spirit would guide me to correct interpretation, and that my interpretation would be as good or better than anyone’s.

Jon

 

[jschutzm]

If what you say is what Sola Scriptura is, properly understood, then I would agree with you. It is not, so I don’t. As a life-long Lutheran in my fifties, I never once was given a Bible and told to go read it, and that the Holy Spirit would guide me to correct interpretation, and that my interpretation would be as good or better than anyone’s.

Jon

You bring up a good point, that I obviously wasn’t intending to address because it has already been gone over in this particular thread, but I agree with you. However, that is your ONE personal experience and limited to the Lutheran faith. Lutheranism leans more to the Christian Tradition side of things and is very close to Catholicism in its beliefs. So I’m not surprised that you interpret scripture within the framework given to you by your denomination. That is wonderful and I am glad to hear that.

Catholics do this also. We are encouraged to read the bible, certaintly, BUT we are told to do this in the context and within the FRAMEWORK or boundaries of the Catholic faith.

However, many protestants I run into don’t do this. They either don’t have a Framework OR splinter off on their own.

Again…to a Catholic… this is the RESULT of the idea of “sola scriptura” the unfortunate way in which it has been used. The LIBERTY it gives everyone…irregardless of whether or not Christians like yourself, don’t miss use it.

Another wards, as a Catholic, I see sola scriptura a “sounding good on paper” but in APPLICATION, being too dangerous and messy to be advocated.

God Bless you Jon for sticking to your Lutheran faith and interpreting the bible within that context and not just “winging it” as so many do.

 

[JonNC]

You bring up a good point, that I obviously wasn’t intending to address because it has already been gone over in this particular thread, but I agree with you. However, that is your ONE personal experience and limited to the Lutheran faith. Lutheranism leans more to the Christian Tradition side of things and is very close to Catholicism in its beliefs. So I’m not surprised that you interpret scripture within the framework given to you by your denomination. That is wonderful and I am glad to hear that.

Catholics do this also. We are encouraged to read the bible, certaintly, BUT we are told to do this in the context and within the FRAMEWORK or boundaries of the Catholic faith.

However, many protestants I run into don’t do this. They either don’t have a Framework OR splinter off on their own.

Again…to a Catholic… this is the RESULT of the idea of “sola scriptura” the unfortunate way in which it has been used. The LIBERTY it gives everyone…irregardless of whether or not Christians like yourself, don’t miss use it.

Another wards, as a Catholic, I see sola scriptura a “sounding good on paper” but in APPLICATION, being too dangerous and messy to be advocated.

God Bless you Jon for sticking to your Lutheran faith and interpreting the bible within that context and not just “winging it” as so many do.

Now this I agree with. And thanks for your kind words. A pastor I once had used the term “a Bible and an experience” to describe what seems the only qualifications needed to be a minister (and interpret scripture) in some communities.

Jon

 

[CAS64]

I will have to take your word that the 33,000 denominations claim is not accurate as I have never looked into it. I will completely agree however that it is not helpful to dialog. It seems to me that often times when it is brought up around here attention is switched from the topic to the validity or inaccuracy of the claim. Then by the time the 33,000 claim has been settled, it was forgotten what was even being discussed in the first place.

Anyways, like our friendly forum Lutheran, JonNC, stated, I hope you stick around.

God bless

Thank-you and I will. Some good conversation seems to be had here.