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josie_L
Guest
Jon, what was the name of that Church who wrote the Nicene Creed? It should easily be discerned by History. Thanks for answering my questions. God bless.
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humble_in_doubt
Guest
I would opine that is an inaccurate statement. There are divisions among different theological schools of thought in the CC, which are just as profound as the differences between Methodists and Presbyterians.This is different, however, than differences amongst Catholics, which is more akin to differences within Lutheranism, or amongst Baptists.
Was I clear?
Jon
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josie_L
Guest
I realize that Protestantism is not a visible instititution (in that there is a structural organization called Protestantism) , I may have given the wrong impression to Jon when I used or stated “under the umbrella of Protestantism,” I only meant to convey all the similar characteristics (SS, SF and such) that classify denominations as Protestant.
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josie_L
Guest
What are you trying to say?
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mark_a
Guest
Protestants have historically had their unity in their hatred of the Catholic Church. And, at times, for good reason.
I really dislike the 33k number thats thrown around here. It completely shuts down dialog. But I’ll use it if necessary!!
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humble_in_doubt
Guest
I was addressing a statement made by another poster (you can trace it back if you wish). On a more general note, if I were a Christian I’d rather have thousands of denominations rather than just one (since the more competing denominations the more Christianity is spread & the more is its preservation is guaranteed). Just speaking from a pragmatic perspective (I realize Catholics will disagree with me here … but oh well).
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Roman_Catholic_1
Guest
I am not sure I understand your reasoning here
If you were a Christian you should desire unity like what our Lord prayed for. But oh well
God bless
R
Roman_Catholic_1
Guest
SSTeacher,
Catholics and Protestants also do not disagree with everything either.
It depends on the denomination. Lutherans and Anglicans are closer to each other than Lutherans and Baptists, or Anglicans and Baptists. Then again, it could be argued that Anglicans and Lutherans are closer to Catholics than Baptists
There are differences, and, in my experience, it usually depends on the individual believer how important these differences are.
God bless
J
josie_L
Guest
How is having thousands of denominations pragmatic when the result is confusion and disunity?
The creed tells us, Josie. The one, holy, catholic church, of which we both claim membership. And Josie, it is a pleasure to converse with you.
Jon
I’ll let the Catholics debate you on this, but suffice to say I disagree, as they are all in communion with the bishop of Rome.
Jon
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Bill_Pick
Guest
Are we going to count Baptist in here with the protestants,WOW that will make a diffOne of the criticisms made by Catholics about the Protestant movement is that it is continually dividing into more and more “denominations.” The number of denominations cited can be anything from 33,000 and upward. The reason invariably given to explain this state of affairs is the doctrine of Sola Scriptura.
I’m not so sure that this argument is quite as overwhelming as Catholics might like to think. The logic seems unsound. If it were sound then when we Protestants see division in the ranks of the Catholic Church we would by using the same logic suggest that the Catholic Magisterium is to blame for the differences of viewpoint. Presumably, most Catholics would see such an assertion as wayward? Well, then, if a Protestant believes that the Bible rather than the Magesterium is a sufficient rule of faith how is it that Catholics conclude that a difference of opinion abut our sufficient source is a valid argument against its sufficiency?
Whatever. That’s merely an en passant observation since my focus here is not upon the method of argumentation used against the doctrine of Sola Scriptura but upon the actual division within the Protestant movement since that division is undoubtedly a reality. The suffix that Catholics usually add to their argument against the doctrine of Sola Scriptura is that the denominations “all disagree with each other.”
Does that assertion adequately describe the reality? Do we Protestants all disagree with each other? The 33,000 figure (apparently lifted from the World Christian Encyclopedia – check it out, it’s only $300+) implies that there are 33,000 different viewpoints or opinions i.e. total cacophony. But I respectfully submit that an objective analyst would probably not draw that conclusion. We Protestants do not disagree about everything. For example, it’s reasonable to assume that most Protestants have no trouble reciting the Nicene Creed – including the filioque, incidentally – as a public profession of faith.
So, how “divided” are Protestants? Not as much as some might suggest, perhaps?
Cordially,
Mick
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josie_L
Guest
Do you mean the CC Jon, since at the time that the creed was written there was only one Church, or at least that is what we know from studing history, but I’ll let it be. God bless you my brother in Christ.
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mark_a
Guest
Is it really?!?!?!? I’ll start a thread!
Jon
That is my point exactly. One church with all the patriarchs in unity. The Holy Catholic Church, which includes Catholics of the Augsburg Confession, such as myself.
Josie, be blest in word and sacrament tomorrow.
Jon
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humble_in_doubt
Guest
Josie & Rom. Cath:
The reason I say it’s better for Christianity to have multiple denominations is because under one banner there would be no checks & balances system & no competition for hearts and minds. Moreover, protestantism (and its multiple denominations) is a testament to the greatness of western civilization. They rebelled against what was once an oppressive church, and to spite remaining mired in its ancient folklore and mythology our civilization has moved forward at lightening speed at least partly as a result of that rebellion.
Obviously any good Catholic would argue against the idea that the protestant reformation formed part of the impetus for the industrial revolution, the enlightenment, etc. etc. However, almost every great period in human history was preceded by a revolution of some sort.
The reason I say it’s better for Christianity to have multiple denominations is because under one banner there would be no checks & balances system & no competition for hearts and minds. Moreover, protestantism (and its multiple denominations) is a testament to the greatness of western civilization. They rebelled against what was once an oppressive church, and to spite remaining mired in its ancient folklore and mythology our civilization has moved forward at lightening speed at least partly as a result of that rebellion.
Obviously any good Catholic would argue against the idea that the protestant reformation formed part of the impetus for the industrial revolution, the enlightenment, etc. etc. However, almost every great period in human history was preceded by a revolution of some sort.
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humble_in_doubt
Guest
and I guess the Methodists & Presbyterians would say they’re in communion with their invisible friend up in the sky somewhere?
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BrianH
Guest
cuicinfo.org/members/members.html
cuicinfo.org/whatiscuic/cuic.html
It is quite a bit more tangible than that.
BH
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