How do Angels perceive us?

[pianistclare]

It’s the funniest thing. In the last few days I have found an archangel who has really struck a chord with me: St. Raphael: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raphael_%28archangel%29

He seems like a very warm and kind being. Based on the account of him in the book of Tobit ( and what he is the patron saint of) he seems like a very approachable entity, the opposite of the cold but courteous beings I thought angels to be. Even by the standards of angels and saints he seems quite friendly and personable!

Of course. His name means “God heals”.

 

[djames99]

This article should be of interest to you.

ewtn.com/v/news/getstory.asp?number=68346

Thanks for sharing!

 

[Randy_Carson]

If humans are ‘above’ the angels, why would we be given the short end of the stick in so many ways, like intelligence, abilities, etc?

Oh…like why can’t we run as fast as cheetahs? Or fly like eagles? Or swim like dolphins?

We are not lesser than those creatures simply because our physical capabilities are less than theirs, are we? Similarly, are we lower than the angels simply because they are more intelligent than we are?

No, we are above the angels because A) God chose to become a man (not an angel) thereby giving human a great dignity, and B) we have the potential to become like Him which angels cannot do.

PS - Are angels actually able to acquire knowledge and learn as we do? Or do they have infused knowledge only - meaning that they know what they know because God places that knowledge directly into their “minds”? IOW, do angels think and discover new things? Or do they simply have data programmed into them by God?

Before you freak out over that, consider this: Does God think? Does He learn knew things? Or does He know?

 

[Vico]

If humans are ‘above’ the angels, why would we be given the short end of the stick in so many ways, like intelligence, abilities, etc?

1 Cor 6:3
3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? Then why not everyday matters?

 

[Richca]

By nature the angels are above us (their angelic nature is more exalted that ours, more powerful than ours, their intelligence are far superior to ours etc.)

But in the order of grace, we are higher because we have been redeemed by Christ, God made man. We can received His Body and Blood. “If the Angels could be jealous of men it would be for one reason - Holy Communion.” (A Saint said that, St. Kolbe or St. John Vianney perhaps?)

We are a new creation in Christ. We are “partakers of the Divine nature” as 1Peter says.

So our human nature is lower than the angelic nature in the order of creation.
But in the order of the RECREATION i.e. the order of grace won for us by Christ’s redemption, we are exalted above the Angels.

Matt

Hi Matt, not only are human beings inferior to the angels by nature as you say, for the angels are a more perfect creature by nature as they resemble God more perfectly than we do since they are pure spirits, but in the order of grace human beings are not necessarily higher than the angels either. The good angels partake in the divine nature with the same gift of grace that we do, namely, sanctifying grace. Accordingly, depending on the degree of sanctifying grace and charity we die with, we may be higher or lower than a particular angel in heaven. I think a person would have to die with an extraordinary degree of grace, charity, and holiness to be higher than, for example, the cherubim and seraphim which choirs of angels are the attendants at God’s throne. I, for one, do not see myself surpassing the sanctity of the cherubim or seraphim; not saying that it might not be possible for we should all strive for sanctity and holiness. Though, out of humility I don’t think we should think that we are definitely going to surpass the cherubim and seraphim or even many other of the lower choirs of angels. Jesus Christ, of course, is higher than all the angels even in his humanity since he is God and man. Our Blessed Mother’s holiness is also higher than all the angels, indeed, higher than any other pure creature God has created. The good angels have never sinned. We, on the other hand, are born with original sin on our souls and we commit many personal sins daily. Again, sanctifying grace does not make us higher than the good angels for they also possess sanctifying grace which makes them partakers of the divine nature and of eternal beatitude. The higher order choirs of angels possess a higher degree of grace than the lower orders of choirs according to God’s designs in creating the nine choirs of angels. They all are eternally happy to the full for they all see God face to face.

 

[Richca]

We are not better than angels, but different. God has desired to share His divine life with us, but not with angels. I don’t know why and I don’t think they understand either. That’s why they are in awe.

God created the angels, who have intelligence and free will as human beings do, with the same destiny as human beings, namely, eternal life and beatitude with God. Eternal life and beatitude which is the beatific vision is sharing in the divine life and this the good angels partake through God’s gifts of sanctifying grace and charity. The good angels see God face to face just as the souls of the human saints in heaven do now. God does not force free creatures to love and serve him so he gave all the angels a choice. Those who chose to love and serve God merited eternal beatitude in heaven while those who chose not to love and serve God merited eternal punishment and hell.

 

[eazyduzit]

This is not in accordance with Catholic teaching. It may be taught by Pentecostals, but Catholicism has different teachings.

The angelic choirs are the Seraphim, Cherubim, Thrones, Dominations, Virtues, Powers, Principalities, Archangels, and Angels, in order of rank from highest to lowest. Most sources generally assume that St. Michael, Gabriel, and Raphael are all Seraphim, of which there are seven total. If you’re referencing the part of Isaiah that I think you’re referencing, I believe Catholic tradition holds that Isaiah saw Seraphim, Cherubim, and Thrones.

St. Michael has the title of “Prince of the Heavenly Host.” In Catholic tradition, he is the leader of all the Choirs of Angels, including Seraphim. He is also associated with escorting the souls of the deceased to Heaven, and is considered the special patron of the Chosen People, as well as the Catholic Church.

Sorry, my mistake, I was thinking of Ezekiels vision. The Cherubim are the highest and most intelligent of the angels. Lucifer, as the covering cherub sat above thr throne of God and as such was the leader of the cherubim. I think it was because he was in an influential position that he was able to convince so many angels to follow him. However, none of the “host” of heaven fell because they are the army of heaven and as such are separate and more orderly just as the military is on earth. Michael is their leader. Just to repeat, the word angel means “messenger” . The “host of heaven” are not angels as such. They are the army of God.
Your info sounds as if it is mainly from Jewish tradition. This is not 100% reliable either.It is your own guardian angel who will escort you to heaven.

 

[eazyduzit]

God created the angels, who have intelligence and free will as human beings do, with the same destiny as human beings, namely, eternal life and beatitude with God. Eternal life and beatitude which is the beatific vision is sharing in the divine life and this the good angels partake through God’s gifts of sanctifying grace and charity. The good angels see God face to face just as the souls of the human saints in heaven do now. God does not force free creatures to love and serve him so he gave all the angels a choice. Those who chose to love and serve God merited eternal beatitude in heaven while those who chose not to love and serve God merited eternal punishment and hell.

Sorry, but what can i say? This is simply wrong and unbiblical. The angels have only angel life. Not divine life or “zoe” life. The Bible says we are the temple of God, not angels.That is the great mystery that angels desire to look into with awe. This is not about what one can see. It is much more than a vision. Angels do not receive a special reward for doing what they were meant to do. In heaven, they don’t operate by faith as we do here. We please God by faith.

 

[eazyduzit]

Hi Matt, not only are human beings inferior to the angels by nature as you say, for the angels are a more perfect creature by nature as they resemble God more perfectly than we do since they are pure spirits, but in the order of grace human beings are not necessarily higher than the angels either. The good angels partake in the divine nature with the same gift of grace that we do, namely, sanctifying grace. Accordingly, depending on the degree of sanctifying grace and charity we die with, we may be higher or lower than a particular angel in heaven. I think a person would have to die with an extraordinary degree of grace, charity, and holiness to be higher than, for example, the cherubim and seraphim which choirs of angels are the attendants at God’s throne. I, for one, do not see myself surpassing the sanctity of the cherubim or seraphim; not saying that it might not be possible for we should all strive for sanctity and holiness. Though, out of humility I don’t think we should think that we are definitely going to surpass the cherubim and seraphim or even many other of the lower choirs of angels. Jesus Christ, of course, is higher than all the angels even in his humanity since he is God and man. Our Blessed Mother’s holiness is also higher than all the angels, indeed, higher than any other pure creature God has created. The good angels have never sinned. We, on the other hand, are born with original sin on our souls and we commit many personal sins daily. Again, sanctifying grace does not make us higher than the good angels for they also possess sanctifying grace which makes them partakers of the divine nature and of eternal beatitude. The higher order choirs of angels possess a higher degree of grace than the lower orders of choirs according to God’s designs in creating the nine choirs of angels. They all are eternally happy to the full for they all see God face to face.

The Bible says God created us in His image and likeness. It does not say this of angels.

Grace was won for us by Christ . It is not for angels.

 

[Vico]

The Bible says God created us in His image and likeness. It does not say this of angels.

Grace was won for us by Christ . It is not for angels.

*Summa Theologica, *Question 62. The perfection of the angels in the order of grace and of glory, Article 4. Whether an angel merits his beatitude?
Now it is evident from what has gone before (1,2; 12, 4,5), ultimate beatitude exceeds both the angelic and the human nature. It remains, then, that both man and angel merited their beatitude. …
Consequently it is better to say that the angel had grace ere he was admitted to beatitude, and that by such grace he merited beatitude.

newadvent.org/summa/1062.htm#article2

 

[eazyduzit]

*Summa Theologica, *Question 62. The perfection of the angels in the order of grace and of glory, Article 4. Whether an angel merits his beatitude?
Now it is evident from what has gone before (1,2; 12, 4,5), ultimate beatitude exceeds both the angelic and the human nature. It remains, then, that both man and angel merited their beatitude. …
Consequently it is better to say that the angel had grace ere he was admitted to beatitude, and that by such grace he merited beatitude.

newadvent.org/summa/1062.htm#article2

Is this just human reasoning, or can u show biblical evidence?

 

[Vico]

Is this just human reasoning, or can u show biblical evidence?

Angels are judged (2 Peter 2). Some angels sinned and are in hell, reserved for judgement. Some angels do God commandments. (Psalm 103) In Exodus we read that an angel has the name of God in him.

Revelation 12:7-9
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Matthew 25:41
41 Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels.

2 Peter 2:4:
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Psalms 103
20 Bless the Lord, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word.

Exodus 23:20-21:
20 Behold, I am sending an angel ahead of you, to guard you and bring you to the place I have prepared. 21 Listen to his voice, and do not rebel against him, for my name is in Him, and he will not forgive.

 

[Kurisu35712]

Sorry, my mistake, I was thinking of Ezekiels vision. The Cherubim are the highest and most intelligent of the angels. Lucifer, as the covering cherub sat above thr throne of God and as such was the leader of the cherubim. I think it was because he was in an influential position that he was able to convince so many angels to follow him. However, none of the “host” of heaven fell because they are the army of heaven and as such are separate and more orderly just as the military is on earth. Michael is their leader. Just to repeat, the word angel means “messenger” . The “host of heaven” are not angels as such. They are the army of God.
Your info sounds as if it is mainly from Jewish tradition. This is not 100% reliable either.It is your own guardian angel who will escort you to heaven.

My info is actually from Catholic tradition, and as this is a Catholic apologetics forum, unless I am somehow theologically incorrect from a Catholic viewpoint, it is entirely 100% reliable. The truth is not a subjective thing. To be fair, I did pull much of that from the Catholic section of Wikipedia on angels, though it all seems accurate considering what I know off the top of my head regarding Catholic angelic tradition.

You assert a great deal of information as factual in this post, and yet I do not find much of it in accordance with Catholic teaching on the matter. Respectfully, I disagree with most of your information. Angel does mean messenger, and refers more to their “job” than their essence, but aside from that, everything you said sounds like speculation to me.

 

[Smfm]

I don’t think it’s true that we’re in any way above the angels, even in Heaven. They’re of an entirely different hierarchy of Creation. They are far wiser, more intelligent, and more holy than we are, particularly when we are on Earth, but they are of a different nature and purpose than we are entirely.

True, we aren’t now, but we shall be in the future, but this is something personal I believe, anyway, The Lord gave His life for us mere humans, He never gave His life for the fallen angels, He gave up His life for His earthly creations +++

 

[mikekle]

True, we aren’t now, but we shall be in the future, but this is something personal I believe, anyway, The Lord gave His life for us mere humans, He never gave His life for the fallen angels, He gave up His life for His earthly creations +++

Yes, but angels never needed to do what we humans have to do in order to reach heaven, there was no need for Jesus to die for them.