Let me explain a little about mortal sin . . . First, we are not robots. God gives us a free will, and man has the ability to radically separate himself from God by freely choosing to act contrary to God’s grace.
I do not believe that “man has the ability to radically separate himself from God” because that would be contrary to what God promises in His Word.
The parable of the sower is instrumental in helping us to understand these differences between you and I. If you have ever planted seeds for any purpose (flower gardening, or producing fruit and vegetables), then you know that if you don’t plant the seeds properly, they will not produce what you WANT AND DESIRE them to produce.
- That is why Jesus said that some seed falls unpurposefully on the side of the road, and gets trampled on. It would grow and produce fruit, but the birds come and eat what they find.
- Some seed falls on rocky soil, but growing seedlings require sufficient soil for the roots to establish themselves, and to hold moisture, which is essential to its growth. These seedlings quickly withered away.
- Some seed falls among the thorns and heavy weeds, which do not allow the seedling to get sufficient nutrition or sunlight, and they get choked away.
- But some seed actually finds its way into good solid dirt, and the seedling grows quickly, and will produce 100 times its own!
Some people heard Jesus’ message, and they took it to their heart (put the seed in good soil), and they went forth producing much fruit. But there were others who took his message to heart for just a little while and then quickly gave up and so produced only a little fruit. Those people were representative of either rocky ground, or thorny bushes, or the seed that fell on the side of the road. Either the cares of this world, or the abundance of evil influences in their lives, or the lack of real interest in the message fails to produce any lasting fruit, or fruit that is poor in quality.
These are the people that Peter is talking about. Peter says that these type of people quickly forget that the message they “accepted” was about how their sins were forgiven, and how they could be accepted into the heavenlies. But these people walk away.
Paul said that these people had dull minds. They read and understand the words, but fail to comprehend the message. “But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.” 2Cor 3:14-16"
These people hear the message, and Peter admonishes them to remember that the message they “accepted” has taken their sins away. If they embrace it truly (allow the seed to be placed into fertile soil) then they can add to it, and produce much fruit.
una fides:
When a man [chooses to walk away from God], he forsakes God, and our Lord does not force him to stay. God gave us a free will to accept or reject him.
I agree with this statement insomuch as it applies to those individuals who the seed was not planted in good soil. They are the “sunshine” Christians. They have never truly allowed God’s Word to take root in their lives. They are not true Christians, but simply wolves in sheep clothing.
una fides:
After rejection, when man repents, you say that it is solely the man?
It MUST be. If it were God, and God planted the seed in good soil, IT WOULD PRODUCE GOOD FRUIT. But if man can walk away, then it is clear that the seed never got planted in good soil. The man NEVER became a Christian.
una fides:
Yet, when you claim that a man becomes “saved” he is merely accepting a gift?!
It is “worse” than that. He doesn’t have a choice in his acceptation of salvation. It is like a man in the middle of the ocean. He has no means to get himself out of the water. He is COMPLETELY at the mercy of anyone who happens by. He cannot will someone to save him. If someone happens by, the man cannot force the stranger to help him. He is at his mercy. Either the man will save him, or he won’t.
It is the same thing with salvation from God. Man cannot WILL himself to be born again: “Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.” (John 1:13) He is completely at God’s mercy. "Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy. . . " (Romans 9:18)
una fides:
Do you see the contradiction and double standard you are creating here?
When you are coming from an Arminian POV, I can certainly understand that, yes. But my Calvinist POV is in keeping with Scripture.
una fides:
When we repent of our sins and confess them as Christ has commanded we are cooperating with his grace.
Yes, but this is one who has not fallen from salvation, but from grace.
PEPCIS said:
But, if you must work to inherit eternal life, then you are working to “get brownie points with God.”
una fides:
You fail to distinguish between works of debt and works performed in Christ through grace. No matter how many good works a man does, God will never owe him anything. Good works performed outside of Christ do not benefit us. It is only when we work in Christ and cooperate
with his grace that we can merit, meaning gain a reward for our labors in Christ.
If someone falls out of grace (according to Catholic dogma), then he is NOT IN CHRIST, therefore, he would be performing works OUTSIDE OF CHRIST. That is works-based, and has nothing to do with faith. If that person fell out of faith/grace, then he is simply a seed that was never planted in good soil, and is therefore a false professor.
