How do Catholics explain the paranormal?

[Ridgerunner]

I’m a bit nervous about posting anything on this thread, both for fear of being misunderstood and for fear of simply being wrong.

I’m not sure what people mean by "paranormal’, exactly. yes, there is the spoon bending and this and that, but what, exactly, do people mean when they say it.

There is a book, and I mean to get it, that explains, from a Catholic standpoint, certain phenomena that seem just a bit beyond the human capacities we think of as normal. For example, there is no question that Padre Pio exhibited things that were just plain beyond the range of what we think of as human attributes. He often knew peoples’ sins, for instance, before they told them. He seems to have bilocated. And his stigmata? Where did those come from? Were they faked? The product of hysteria? I doubt it. We read of a lot of “beyond human” things various saints did or experienced.

So what is all of that? Is it a miraculous power given by God only to saints? Or (as my Irish father believed) is there some aspect of the soul that isn’t totally earth-bound 100% of the time, but is entirely human; an aspect that we “filter out” of our belief system and suppress, but is there all the same?

We read or are told of “out of body” experiences of people near death. My own grandfather, on his deathbed, addressed his brother who predeceased him, as clearly and as lucidly as if he was talking to me. And all the time, his wife was there and he addressed her in the very same way. My own father had a “near death experience” that was truly astonishing, and believed in its reality his whole life. I have a friend who, recovering from radiation therapy, perceived a being that brought him solace in his pain, appearing and disappearing in instants. And he will always believe it was a real “something”. Do we have one foot in this material world and one foot in the spiritual world, notwithstanding that we think both feet are in the material world only? Are people who have, even fleetingly, believed God has spoken to him or her, just wrong? Or are we, perhaps, as Catholics in the U.S. just a trifle affected with the classic protestant notion that there is a total void between this world and the next?

I don’t know. I do know I wouldn’t invite some unknown “other” into my life. I wouldn’t do a ouija board for all the tea in China. I wouldn’t touch a tarot card or believe in any “fortune” declared by anyone. I would disbelieve and/or distrust anyone who claimed to have miraculous powers. I am profoundly skeptical of reports of the “paranormal” for the most part, and do have concerns about possible demonic content in some of them. And I sure wouldn’t try to “force” any kind of not-altogether-“natural” experience.

But still, we call on God, or the Blessed Mother to come to us all the time. We pray to our angels, asking them to “light” (enlighten) as well as “guard”, to “guide” and to “rule”. Do we mean that, or do we expect no actual impress on our brains or consciousnesses at all when we entreat them to do that? Do we intend them to just keep the devil off our backs, unknown and unseen, and communicate things to us on the ironclad condition that we think those things came from our own brains? And if we do ask for “light”, do we necessarily have to believe we cannot possibly be aware of it if it’s granted?

I’m going to get the book and read it, retaining all the mental restraint I can muster. But (and I guess it’s my father’s Irish in me) I do think sometimes that our souls perceive things our senses don’t.

 

[uni_embrace]

I am open to the idea of the paranormal but I am not naive. I’d like to think most Catholics can be open minded and yet have a healthy scepticism. Many conspiracy theoris are absurd but I think that if God created a universe as big as ours then it is possible that there are other intelligent life forms out there who may be trying to make contact. This of course is al ot different to following the CT subculture of believing in abductions and wild UFO stoires.

 

[inocente]

For instance, there is a documented case of a man who can allow electricity to conduct through his body. There is another case of a woman who can use her mind to turn off surrounding lights.

Could you cite links - I like debunking stuff.

 

[Myqyl]

No im serious, he actually works through demons.

Actually, he recently released a book teaching people to do the illusions he’s done. He’s an illusionist. A very good one from what little I’ve seen, but an illusionist all the same.

 

[Rascalking]

Aw c’mon. You don’t believe *Ghost Adventurers *when they start screaming, “Dude! Dude! Did something just scratch me???”

LOL! Lets just say I do not have to remind myself that people will believe anything they are told. It’s like the opposite of Ockhams razor!

Someone sneezed?! Quick, let’s blame ghosts and the devil! I heard a noise upstairs! Quick! blame a poltergeist!

 

[peaceplease]

I am stumped by John Edwards, a Catholic, who is a medium. He wrote a book, I believe the title is Practical Guide To The Rosary. I could be wrong about the title.

These topics actually interested me at one time. In fact, I have always been intrigued about afterlife. And, for awhile, thought that perhaps we had it all wrong. That our life was mapped out in akashic(sp)records. For awhile, I had some strange beliefs. It began with tv watching Sylvia Browne.

And, I questioned what I was taught in Catholic religion. I even contacted a medium once. I had a phone reading. At the beginning of the conversation, the medium(former nun,btw) told me that she saw me making the sign of the cross. She asked if I was Catholic. And, she told me that it was okay and not a sin. Also, that there was no hell or devil. I adopted those beliefs for awhile. Much of what she told me made no sense to me.

My mother was upset with me for contacting a medium. I told her that it must be okay, if John Edwards, a Catholic, is a medium. I really don’t understand about John Edwards. Now, I realize that we are not to know our future, and not to bother the dead. Now, I am bothered that I tried to see if she could find my dead brother.

I believe that through EWTN that I started coming back to my Catholic original beliefs. I am in the process of coming back home. I am awaiting a call back from my priest to start annulment process of my first marriage, and for my husband’s first marriage. I wish that I could go to confession and receive Holy Communion.

Getting a bit off topic here, I realize there is much that I need to learn or re-learn about Catholic religion. All through my Catholic upbringing, it was only an obligation to me. But, now I truly I want to be Catholic and become more educated. I have been a lousy Catholic all my life. Oh well, this is getting into another thread here, so I will stop.

 

[ChrisRedfield47]

Actually, he recently released a book teaching people to do the illusions he’s done. He’s an illusionist. A very good one from what little I’ve seen, but an illusionist all the same.

He does not explain all of them…only simple ones.
You cannot really explain all those tricks he does Live srsly…
But that’s up to u to believe not like it really matters anyway.

 

[marymary1975]

I have a feeling that it may be a few things:

1. Real, and the work of Satan. Someone makes a deal with Satan of some kind, or someone gets possessed and starts to have these ‘powers’.
2. Real, but phenomenal in the sense that it is outside of our experience but not preternatural or paranormal. May be explained in the future.
3. Fake, and the person is a fraudster.
4. Fake, and the person believes it to be real but they and those around them are mistaken and/or it’s a case of confirmation bias and seeing what you want to see.

I think that most on TV are the fake kind. I don’t think Satan or those who have made deals with him would go on a pop-tv show. They would hide from TV attention.

I think this answer is totally accurate.

 

[Faith1960]

Usually, demons help people out to do amazing things. For example idk if you have heard of the famous “Criss Angel”, he has made escape acts, has levitated, made other people levitate, walked on water, etc. He for instance (in my personal opinion) does this with the help of demons (and id say I have good reasons for it). People that practice witchcraft and are involved in the occult obtain help from demons.

What Chris Angel does are TRICKS.

 

[Faith1960]

No im serious, he actually works through demons. I cannot post all that ive investigated here, but I can try explaining a couple of things.

1- Criss Angel Levitates. He has done this with tons of people watching him doing it live. How is this an illusion? Well let me explain this. If you read the “Acts of Peter and Paul” Which is an apocrypha book, you will find a magician or sorcerer called “Simon”. Now Simon proclaimed himself as the messiah. He is the same Simon found in Acts 8:9-24. Many Church Fathers wrote about him, and how Peter and Paul were martyred because they prayed for Simon (the sorcerer) to fall while he was levitating. And it happened, Simon fell and died. For such reason Nero ordered the execution of Peter and Paul. Read Acts of Peter and Paul:

newadvent.org/fathers/0815.htm

Just because it is an apocrypha book, doesn’t mean its full of lies. It just means its not divinely inspired, and many Church Fathers wrote about things that happened in it or related to Simon Magus (Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, Hippolytus, Epiphanius and the Clementine homilies also speak aboutthis simon). If you read it, you will find how Simon levitates with the help of demons.

2- Criss (which is a name close to “Christ”) does not directly proclaim himself as the messiah, but always looks at the sky and after finishing doing an amazing magic trick, he always says something like “My Father in heaven is looking at me”. Simon the sorcerer proclaimed himself as the messiah. Criss doesn’t directly but his way of speaking is inappropriate. God is our Father yes. But God is the Father of Jesus in a special sense (both have the same nature and thus are both God, and God is one).

3- Criss claims to have the ability to see through items (for example a ball in a box) and to predict future results (for example in a Car Race). When he does so he not only predicts who wins, but who places 2nd and 3rd. This also happens through demons.

For these and some other things I myself have investigated about him, I simply conclude he receives help from demons. I know some tricks he has revealed, but some are simply for real (make people levitate in front of hundreds of people from one building to another, you kidding me?). This is my personal opinion.

David Copperfield does some of the same things. They’re simply illusions my friend, tricks. That’s all there is to it.

 

[empther]

The last thing the devil wants is for people to believe he exists.
He would not be behind paranormal events.

If you see such an event on television it is a magician’s trick, or simply trick photography etc

If somebody tells you they saw a paranormal event,
why on earth would you believe them?

The paranormal is not our concern. It’s dangerous to faith.
Forget about it.

 

[mathematoons]

I used to be really into that stuff. Then I became Catholic.

Now, I figure that if it’s not part of the Deposit of Faith, it’s not our concern. Whatever a particular paranormal thing is, it’s probably something God created. UFOs may or may not be paranormal things; if they are, then God created whatever is behind them (probably angels). Is the Loch Ness Monster real? If so, God created it. Bermuda Triangle? God made it. You get the idea.

 

[MindOverMatter2]

You can’t go by what you see on TV. It is all faked.

The saintly miracles, and the miracles of the church are faked, you can’t go by what you read in books. The people who witness supposed miracles are either mistaken about something which is actually a natural event; or perhaps they are crazy. Why would you believe a Christian!!!

And the same goes for every other faith driven Catholic on this forum who has been so certain of the events as to dismiss the claims so easily.

Why can’t the Catholics on this forum see when they are being hoodwinked by a poster?

Whats my opinion? Who is to say that the nature which God created does not possess potentialities that we don’t understand? I cannot so easily dismiss the claims as false or fake; but i have no reason to believe them either. The ability to conduct electricity through ones body doesn’t seem possible, but then again one or two people have been documented as being struck by lightning several times and have survived. Switching of lights with the mind is hardly outside the realm of possibility, especially if you are a Christian. However, its not as if their being true would be a life changing event. I don’t see those claims as having any meaningful relevance to my life, and so i would not take them seriously anyway. So what if somebody can conduct electricity or turn of lights with their minds? Thats not so amazing. Bringing people back from the dead; now thats a claim that would catch my attention.

 

[inocente]

I cannot so easily dismiss the claims as false or fake; but i have no reason to believe them either. The ability to conduct electricity through ones body doesn’t seem possible, but then again one or two people have been documented as being struck by lightning several times and have survived. Switching of lights with the mind is hardly outside the realm of possibility, especially if you are a Christian.

The human body is mainly salt water, which conducts electricity very well, but dry skin is a good insulator until its resistance is overcome by higher voltages, for instance a static shock from a car body or a carpet is current flowing through your body. The idea that anyone could allow or disallow this by the power of their mind alone seems very silly.

The folklore of switching lights on and off with the mind seems to have originated with street lights turning off and on as superstitious people pass by. Streetlights do that either due to failing tubes or random timers which save energy, it’s just coincidence that someone is walking by.

The thread starter said there are documented cases, and I asked in post #23 for citations, but am still waiting.

 

[MindOverMatter2]

The human body is mainly salt water, which conducts electricity very well, but dry skin is a good insulator until its resistance is overcome by higher voltages, for instance a static shock from a car body or a carpet is current flowing through your body. The idea that anyone could allow or disallow this by the power of their mind alone seems very silly.

The folklore of switching lights on and off with the mind seems to have originated with street lights turning off and on as superstitious people pass by. Streetlights do that either due to failing tubes or random timers which save energy, it’s just coincidence that someone is walking by.

The thread starter said there are documented cases, and I asked in post #23 for citations, but am still waiting.

I am not saying that coincidence is not possible. And i did not say that the events in question actually happened. Of course when you put it in the context of street lamps going off, it makes sense to say that it was just a coincidence. But that is not what i think the OP had in mind. All i said is that my mind is open to the possibility that somebody maybe able to control the electrical current in an object with their mind just as much as my mind is open to the possibility of a miracle. That sometimes things can happen that don’t follow the normal rule of physical law is not something towards which i am radically skeptical of. As a Christian it would be very hypocritical of me to ridicule and call people crazy who believe they have witnessed these suspensions of natural law. I just think a lot of the posters are being quite arrogant, and yet i bet they believe in a lot miracles that they themselves did not witness.

If i was an atheist that is exactly what i would point out. In fact i would create a thread just like this one to bait them.

 

[inocente]

That sometimes things can happen that don’t follow the normal rule of physical law is not something towards which i am radically skeptical of. As a Christian it would be very hypocritical of me to ridicule and call people crazy who believe they have witnessed these suspensions of natural law. I just think a lot of the posters are being quite arrogant, and yet i bet they believe in a lot miracles that they themselves did not witness.

Yes, it’s strange how there should be different species of paranormal, some of which are approved and others not. I think it’s best to only accept paranormal/miracle after looking high and low for a more mundane explanation and not finding any. Otherwise, at the very least, miracles become too commonplace to justify the name miracle.

If i was an atheist that is exactly what i would point out. In fact i would create a thread just like this one to bait them.

Quite.

 

[nordskoven]

Uh, Criss Angel spoiler clips are readily available on YouTube. Wonderful gimmicks. And there are people who have strange metabolisms, including that which would lead to self-incineration. We are a little electro-chemical powerhouse. No telling what can happen.

I’m more concerned about UFO’s. I believe these are fallen angels, and the behavior they exhibit today is the same as recorded in the Middle Ages as regarding incubus and succubus. This would be preternatural, not supernatural, phenomena. This is of the (fallen) angelic realm not the divine realm. The contacts with humans are invariably negative, and are reflected in the heritage of djinns/genies, tricksters and demons in every culture. They lie and hurt people. This was the conclusion of the French UFO researcher Jacques Valle, depicted as having the opposite opinion in the movie “Close Encounters of the Third Kind.”

As angels, even though fallen angels, their abilities and aptitudes are greater than mankind’s, though men will judge angels. So it’s easy to get snookered by some technology or effect, like adoring a Coke bottle that fell from the sky in the movie “The Gods Must Be Crazy.” As exorcist Father Malachi Martin suggested, the aim of the fallen angels is to alienate man from God and our essential human dignity as children of God.

I note that one unnamed Christian UFO researcher observed that baptized people don’t get abducted by UFO’s excepting one case involving a Catholic woman, who had to be asked her permission first. I saw a UFO when I was with my non-baptized Jewish friend; and it followed this unbaptized person who was driving along the highway two days later. I suggest this is why those covens recorded in Margaret Murray’s embattled book “The Witch Cult in Western Europe” made a point not to be baptized as they were, like a California cult involving rich housewives and Native Americans, calling down these fallen angels with their rituals; and the fallen angels don’t cotton to being around baptized people.

May the Holy Angels of the Most High God encamp about us, protect us and heal us, ensure divine discernment from the Holy Spirit, and guide us safely to Heaven, all for God’s honor and glory. AMEN

 

[MindOverMatter2]

Uh, Criss Angel spoiler clips are readily available on YouTube. Wonderful gimmicks. And there are people who have strange metabolisms, including that which would lead to self-incineration. We are a little electro-chemical powerhouse. No telling what can happen.

I’m more concerned about UFO’s. I believe these are fallen angels, and the behavior they exhibit today is the same as recorded in the Middle Ages as regarding incubus and succubus. This would be preternatural, not supernatural, phenomena. This is of the (fallen) angelic realm not the divine realm. The contacts with humans are invariably negative, and are reflected in the heritage of djinns/genies, tricksters and demons in every culture. They lie and hurt people. This was the conclusion of the French UFO researcher Jacques Valle, depicted as having the opposite opinion in the movie “Close Encounters of the Third Kind.”

As angels, even though fallen angels, their abilities and aptitudes are greater than mankind’s, though men will judge angels. So it’s easy to get snookered by some technology or effect, like adoring a Coke bottle that fell from the sky in the movie “The Gods Must Be Crazy.” As exorcist Father Malachi Martin suggested, the aim of the fallen angels is to alienate man from God and our essential human dignity as children of God.

I note that one unnamed Christian UFO researcher observed that baptized people don’t get abducted by UFO’s excepting one case involving a Catholic woman, who had to be asked her permission first. I saw a UFO when I was with my non-baptized Jewish friend; and it followed this unbaptized person who was driving along the highway two days later. I suggest this is why those covens recorded in Margaret Murray’s embattled book “The Witch Cult in Western Europe” made a point not to be baptized as they were, like a California cult involving rich housewives and Native Americans, calling down these fallen angels with their rituals; and the fallen angels don’t cotton to being around baptized people.

May the Holy Angels of the Most High God encamp about us, protect us and heal us, ensure divine discernment from the Holy Spirit, and guide us safely to Heaven, all for God’s honor and glory. AMEN

Interest take on ufos. But it would be funny if a real alien race saw what you wrote and thought “what a racist bigot!!”

 

[MindOverMatter2]

Uh, Criss Angel spoiler clips are readily available on YouTube. Wonderful gimmicks. And there are people who have strange metabolisms, including that which would lead to self-incineration. We are a little electro-chemical powerhouse. No telling what can happen.

I’m more concerned about UFO’s. I believe these are fallen angels, and the behavior they exhibit today is the same as recorded in the Middle Ages as regarding incubus and succubus. This would be preternatural, not supernatural, phenomena. This is of the (fallen) angelic realm not the divine realm. The contacts with humans are invariably negative, and are reflected in the heritage of djinns/genies, tricksters and demons in every culture. They lie and hurt people. This was the conclusion of the French UFO researcher Jacques Valle, depicted as having the opposite opinion in the movie “Close Encounters of the Third Kind.”

As angels, even though fallen angels, their abilities and aptitudes are greater than mankind’s, though men will judge angels. So it’s easy to get snookered by some technology or effect, like adoring a Coke bottle that fell from the sky in the movie “The Gods Must Be Crazy.” As exorcist Father Malachi Martin suggested, the aim of the fallen angels is to alienate man from God and our essential human dignity as children of God.

I note that one unnamed Christian UFO researcher observed that baptized people don’t get abducted by UFO’s excepting one case involving a Catholic woman, who had to be asked her permission first. I saw a UFO when I was with my non-baptized Jewish friend; and it followed this unbaptized person who was driving along the highway two days later. I suggest this is why those covens recorded in Margaret Murray’s embattled book “The Witch Cult in Western Europe” made a point not to be baptized as they were, like a California cult involving rich housewives and Native Americans, calling down these fallen angels with their rituals; and the fallen angels don’t cotton to being around baptized people.

May the Holy Angels of the Most High God encamp about us, protect us and heal us, ensure divine discernment from the Holy Spirit, and guide us safely to Heaven, all for God’s honor and glory. AMEN

Interest take on ufos. I agree with you to some extent, but not necessarily with the idea that the aliens are in fact synonymous with fallen angels; only that they are evil. But it would be funny if a real alien race saw what you wrote and thought “what a racist bigot!!”

 

[Sair]

I am not saying that coincidence is not possible. And i did not say that the events in question actually happened. Of course when you put it in the context of street lamps going off, it makes sense to say that it was just a coincidence. But that is not what i think the OP had in mind. All i said is that my mind is open to the possibility that somebody maybe able to control the electrical current in an object with their mind just as much as my mind is open to the possibility of a miracle. That sometimes things can happen that don’t follow the normal rule of physical law is not something towards which i am radically skeptical of. As a Christian it would be very hypocritical of me to ridicule and call people crazy who believe they have witnessed these suspensions of natural law. I just think a lot of the posters are being quite arrogant, and yet i bet they believe in a lot miracles that they themselves did not witness.

If i was an atheist that is exactly what i would point out. In fact i would create a thread just like this one to bait them.

Perhaps coincidence is relative - given enough possible instances, certain things are bound to happen at least once. I have recently had the dubious pleasure of watching (entirely for work purposes, I should point out) a few episodes of a television ‘reality’ program called ‘The One’ which purports to identify “Australia’s most gifted psychic”. To their credit, I guess, they had a prominent member of Australian Skeptics as one of their judging panel, but it was interesting to hear the excuses delivered by the psychic supporter who made up the other half of the judging panel, as to why it might be the case that purported ‘psychics’ made so many mistakes and had no apparent confidence in their abilities - “Well, it’s a competition,” “Sceptics always say it comes down to chance,” “Your truth is not the whole truth” and so forth.

From what I could gather, any ‘success’ on the part of the claimed psychics was coincidental, and none of them had the least degree of confidence in their judgement, any more than a randomly guessing person-on-the-street would have.

It’s all very well to be open to possibilities, but the essence of scepticism is to reserve judgement until convincing evidence has been revealed. Until then, it’s as Carl Sagan, amongst others, said - “Keep an open mind – but not so open that your brain falls out.”