How do Catholics hear the Gospel?

[Pixie_Dust]

I can relate, I feel this way when i dont know a worship song.

Exactly! We could continue Lewis’ thought here and say, “As long as you notice, and have to learn the words and notes, you are not yet singing but only learning to sing.”

It’s especially hard to learn a song in these modern days of Power Point words on a huge screen and NO notes! :banghead: I am a trained singer and, while I don’t have perfect pitch, I do sight read and really appreciate knowing where my voice is supposed to be going next. Praise be to God we still have hymnals at my church!

Liturgy really is just like singing your favorite praise & worship song, once you gain that familiarity with what’s coming next. In fact, we sing so much of the Mass at my parish that it very nearly IS one hour-long praise and worship song!

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

The “Sinner’s Prayer” is a good thing. It is what could be described as “Spiritual Communion.” I pray it at every Mass when I am not in the proper standing to receive the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament. But understand that Spiritual Communion is just a part of the richness of the Christian faith, the fullness of which subsists in the Catholic Faith. Again, I repeat, the SInners Prayer is a good thing, but that is nat all that there is. THere is so much more that we can have, and that the Lord is eager to give us, all we need do is look for it.

Imagine you and a loved one have gotten yourselves lost on a mountain top and you have fallen into a crevasse, you are both severely injured to the point that you both think you are better off dead. having ignored God all your life . you then say the first payer in years, “God now that there is nothing left, you are welcome to have whats left of my life. Oh and by the way. Ive given up and there is no way Ill get myself out of here.” then suddenly men come over the edge of the crevasse on repel ropes and befor you know whats happening you are both on stretchers and are headed down the mountain, you watch helplessly as men go to great lengths to see that you both get to safety. then these men see to your needs, they stay with you while you heal and assist with your physical therapy. When you have left the hospital you are not just restored you find that you are better than you were the day you went up that hill. the skills you have learned from these people have transformed your life. Then along comes some very nice people who point to these people who have gone out of there way for you and loved you while you had nothing to give back and say those people dont really know what they doing, they are missing all the most important skills. you should leave them and join us. would that be a tough sell? My pastors Biblical advise transformed my marriage. My pastors Biblical teaching has renewed my mind. My pastors leadership class taught me things that transformed my relationship with my own father and I now have a love for him that I havent had my entire life. I have been clean and sober for 9 years. at one point in my addiction I was homeless, I now own a home, Im out of debt and have great credit. My wife avoided relationships and would lash out at people at the slightest sign of them doing her wrong. The women have embraced her and loved on her and showed her that she is lovable.
the day I went to Mass I then went to my own church service, during the worship service in between songs they asked anyone who was hurting, or who had burdens and who needed prayer to come forward while others continued to sing. as people came and nelt down to pray, other people from the congregation would come up and kneel with them before the lord and pray with them. people who looked like they had walked with the Lord all their lives were kneeling down with junkies and people who looked like they were chewed up by life. they prayed and cried together! Catholics talk about the true presents and I dont doubt that. But now one will convince me that Christ wasnt present on that floor that day. The contrast between the to services was very stark. The Catholic service was beautiful and showed more reverence for the Lord. But Our service was beautiful in a whole different way.

 

[cheese_sdc]

How do Catholics hear the Gospel?

With their ears, of course.

 

[CWBetts]

Imagine you and a loved one have gotten yourselves lost on a mountain top and you have fallen into a crevasse, you are both severely injured to the point that you both think you are better off dead. having ignored God all your life . you then say the first payer in years, “God now that there is nothing left, you are welcome to have whats left of my life. Oh and by the way. Ive given up and there is no way Ill get myself out of here.” then suddenly men come over the edge of the crevasse on repel ropes and befor you know whats happening you are both on stretchers and are headed down the mountain, you watch helplessly as men go to great lengths to see that you both get to safety. then these men see to your needs, they stay with you while you heal and assist with your physical therapy. When you have left the hospital you are not just restored you find that you are better than you were the day you went up that hill. the skills you have learned from these people have transformed your life. Then along comes some very nice people who point to these people who have gone out of there way for you and loved you while you had nothing to give back and say those people dont really know what they doing, they are missing all the most important skills. you should leave them and join us. would that be a tough sell? My pastors Biblical advise transformed my marriage. My pastors Biblical teaching has renewed my mind. My pastors leadership class taught me things that transformed my relationship with my own father and I now have a love for him that I havent had my entire life. I have been clean and sober for 9 years. at one point in my addiction I was homeless, I now own a home, Im out of debt and have great credit. My wife avoided relationships and would lash out at people at the slightest sign of them doing her wrong. The women have embraced her and loved on her and showed her that she is lovable.
the day I went to Mass I then went to my own church service, during the worship service in between songs they asked anyone who was hurting, or who had burdens and who needed prayer to come forward while others continued to sing. as people came and nelt down to pray, other people from the congregation would come up and kneel with them before the lord and pray with them. people who looked like they had walked with the Lord all their lives were kneeling down with junkies and people who looked like they were chewed up by life. they prayed and cried together! Catholics talk about the true presents and I dont doubt that. But now one will convince me that Christ wasnt present on that floor that day. The contrast between the to services was very stark. The Catholic service was beautiful and showed more reverence for the Lord. But Our service was beautiful in a whole different way.

Catholics don’t have “services.” The have Mass. The difference is a protestant service is based around what you are doing for God, in other words, “good works.” The Catholic Mass is what God is doing for us. Though taking an active role in the various prayers and recitation of Scripture from beginning to end, the congregation, indeed even the priest, aren’t “doing” anything other than allowing God to fulfill His promises. The Mass is the fullest possible expression of Worship. Protestants gather to hear somebody talk about what he happens to think the Scriptures say, maybe to fellowship, and upon occasion actually fulfill Jesus’ command to “do this in remembrance of me,” sometimes as infrequently as once a year. (For comparison, the New Testament Church, that is the Catholic Church, did it daily). Why do Catholics go to Mass? What is the central feature? This can be determined by the layout of the sanctuary. In a Protestant “church” the focus is on the pulpit, placed front and center. In the Catholic Church, the altar is central. One focuses on a man (pulpit is central) the other focuses on the Son of Man (altar is central). You can try to explain Evangelical Protestantism, with a silly analogy if you like, but at the end of the day, Sola Scriptura-Sola Fide-Once Saved, Always Saved “Christianity” is largely to blame for the negative view of Christianity held in the United States.

 

[shondrea]

Although I’m not 100% sure what we’re currently discussing, I’ll add the two cents I can scrape together!

I went to my first Mass in almost a year last Sunday, after spending countless hours looking up what each bow, movement, prayer and action actually MEANT. Having this understanding, I went to Mass, and you know what I did?

I cried. It was the first tie I truly, TRULY felt that God was there with me, that if I wanted, i could reach out and feel him.

I know some Protestants don’t like the idea of Catholic ritual, since they say it’s often done without eaning, but let me say firsthand, when it IS done with reverence, meaning and purose, the ritual of Mass can be one of the most amazing things! I’m reminded with every genuflect and kneel that I’m doing this to show my love and submission to God

 

[Bob_Crowley]

I found this story a while back, dug it out again (I gots Google skillz ) and it was suggested that I share it in a new thread. Enjoy!

I agreed with your story, but I also think it says something. Coming from a Protestant background, where there is not such a fixed liturgy, the preachers make more of a point in their sermons of stressing our sinfulness, Christ’s redeeming death and sacrifice etc.

I think the danger for Catholics is that sheer routine dulls the effect of what we’re saying.

Maybe we need to be forcefully reminded more often from the pulpit of what it is that we are actually proclaiming each week in the mass.

 

[shondrea]

My post proves that entirely. For years, i did ritual just because…it was habbit. It wasn’t until I really UNDERSTOOD what i was doing that is becae so beautiful and special.

Maybe it’s just because I’m a creature of routine, and like things consistant, orderly and familiar, but this seems like the most natural way to worship to me, although I’m sure it’s different for everyone! I feel most at peace in ritual and routine.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

Catholics don’t have “services.” The have Mass. The difference is a protestant service is based around what you are doing for God, in other words, “good works.” The Catholic Mass is what God is doing for us. Though taking an active role in the various prayers and recitation of Scripture from beginning to end, the congregation, indeed even the priest, aren’t “doing” anything other than allowing God to fulfill His promises. The Mass is the fullest possible expression of Worship. Protestants gather to hear somebody talk about what he happens to think the Scriptures say, maybe to fellowship, and upon occasion actually fulfill Jesus’ command to “do this in remembrance of me,” sometimes as infrequently as once a year. (For comparison, the New Testament Church, that is the Catholic Church, did it daily). Why do Catholics go to Mass? What is the central feature? This can be determined by the layout of the sanctuary. In a Protestant “church” the focus is on the pulpit, placed front and center. In the Catholic Church, the altar is central. One focuses on a man (pulpit is central) the other focuses on the Son of Man (altar is central). You can try to explain Evangelical Protestantism, with a silly analogy if you like, but at the end of the day, Sola Scriptura-Sola Fide-Once Saved, Always Saved “Christianity” is largely to blame for the negative view of Christianity held in the United States.

Perhaps you can exsplane this negative veiw of Christianity and how it is reflected in my church.

 

[Carlan]

I agreed with your story, but I also think it says something. Coming from a Protestant background, where there is not such a fixed liturgy, the preachers make more of a point in their sermons of stressing our sinfulness, Christ’s redeeming death and sacrifice etc.

I think the danger for Catholics is that sheer routine dulls the effect of what we’re saying.

Maybe we need to be forcefully reminded more often from the pulpit of what it is that we are actually proclaiming each week in the mass.

I agree Bob, The PASCEL mystery should be preached all year long, and what it means to dye to self.God bless all down under, and Peace to us all, Carlan

 

[CWBetts]

Why is it assumed that Catholics don’t pay attention? With the extreme rarity of celebration of the Lord’s Supper in some communities, I would say that Protestants are the ones inattentive to the Paschal Mystery. As a Catholic, I have the opportunity to partake in the Eucharist every day if I wish (in truth, it is something I should do more often). I don’t know about anyone else, but I weep more often than not during the Liturgy because it brings to mind the holiness of the Lord, my unworthiness as a sinner, and the love of the Savior. Remember, this is something any Catholic can do any day if they so desire. Let us contrast this with Protestantism. My parents, who are United Methodists, take Communion once a month (I will not get in to the significance in the difference in terminology here, though it is a worthy discussion). I previously attended a CMA church, which celebrated the “ordinance” quarterly, as did the first Baptist church I attended. For an assignment in my ecclesiology class, I attended a Fundamental Independent Baptist church, as much to remind me why I left as anything, and they celebrate it annually, at Passover. Logically, how can it be argued that greater attention is given to the Cross at communities that celebrate Communion at most twelve times a year than the Catholic Church, which celebrates the Eucharist 365 days a year, and according to Canon Law, you could receive the Eucharist twice a day. So for all of you who try to argue that Roman Catholicism does not give proper attention to the redeeming sacrifice of Jesus Christ, I have one word to say: HOGWASH!!!

 

[Carlan]

Why is it assumed that Catholics don’t pay attention? With the extreme rarity of celebration of the Lord’s Supper in some communities, I would say that Protestants are the ones inattentive to the Paschal Mystery. As a Catholic, I have the opportunity to partake in the Eucharist every day if I wish (in truth, it is something I should do more often). I don’t know about anyone else, but I weep more often than not during the Liturgy because it brings to mind the holiness of the Lord, my unworthiness as a sinner, and the love of the Savior. Remember, this is something any Catholic can do any day if they so desire. Let us contrast this with Protestantism. My parents, who are United Methodists, take Communion once a month (I will not get in to the significance in the difference in terminology here, though it is a worthy discussion). I previously attended a CMA church, which celebrated the “ordinance” quarterly, as did the first Baptist church I attended. For an assignment in my ecclesiology class, I attended a Fundamental Independent Baptist church, as much to remind me why I left as anything, and they celebrate it annually, at Passover. Logically, how can it be argued that greater attention is given to the Cross at communities that celebrate Communion at most twelve times a year than the Catholic Church, which celebrates the Eucharist 365 days a year, and according to Canon Law, you could receive the Eucharist twice a day. So for all of you who try to argue that Roman Catholicism does not give proper attention to the redeeming sacrifice of Jesus Christ, I have one word to say: HOGWASH!!!

Of course you are right Carl, It is all so beautiful, just waiting for us, so many are so luke warm, however, not discounting my self, Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa , Mea Culpa.God bless ,Peace.Carlan

 

[CWBetts]

Perhaps you can exsplane this negative veiw of Christianity and how it is reflected in my church.

It is actually quite simple. In the United States, there is a built-in anti-Catholic bias. This has to do with the fact that the United States was largely settled by the English, and we inherited their anti-Catholicism. In the 19th century, American Evangelical Fundamentalism took off, with its hatred of Mary, and insistence on Sola Fide. What we have as a result is when one says “Christian” what is thought of is “Protestant.” Now when I was a Protestant, I was definitely taught the OSAS heresy, which basically says "Say the sinners prayer, and if I go out and rape, pillage, murder, and plunder, it does not matter, because “I was saved.” Now try looking at this through “non-believer glasses.” If you are a “good person” (which is to mean, basically civil) you don’t beat people up, you let bygones be bygones, etc, but dont say a little prayer, you are still going to Hell. But if you are the most vile person ever, and you pray the sinners prayer, you get to go to heaven, even without any kind of true conversion of heart. After all “faith alone” means just that: no works at all are needed. With this kind of perception, God does not appear just, but rather arbitrary. As long as your faith community (this is a more accurate description than the word “church”) espouses “faith alone” it contributes to this skewed perception of the Gospel. This view cannot be held with the teachings of the Church. Faith is not enough. We are saved by grace alone. Grace from God gives us faith and permits us to do works that are truly pleasing to God.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

Why is it assumed that Catholics don’t pay attention? With the extreme rarity of celebration of the Lord’s Supper in some communities, I would say that Protestants are the ones inattentive to the Paschal Mystery. As a Catholic, I have the opportunity to partake in the Eucharist every day if I wish (in truth, it is something I should do more often). I don’t know about anyone else, but I weep more often than not during the Liturgy because it brings to mind the holiness of the Lord, my unworthiness as a sinner, and the love of the Savior. Remember, this is something any Catholic can do any day if they so desire. Let us contrast this with Protestantism. My parents, who are United Methodists, take Communion once a month (I will not get in to the significance in the difference in terminology here, though it is a worthy discussion). I previously attended a CMA church, which celebrated the “ordinance” quarterly, as did the first Baptist church I attended. For an assignment in my ecclesiology class, I attended a Fundamental Independent Baptist church, as much to remind me why I left as anything, and they celebrate it annually, at Passover. Logically, how can it be argued that greater attention is given to the Cross at communities that celebrate Communion at most twelve times a year than the Catholic Church, which celebrates the Eucharist 365 days a year, and according to Canon Law, you could receive the Eucharist twice a day. So for all of you who try to argue that Roman Catholicism does not give proper attention to the redeeming sacrifice of Jesus Christ, I have one word to say: HOGWASH!!!

I dont think anyone has said that. the point of the article and what we were saying is , It is possible for us to repeat something so habitually that it is in our head without it touching our heart. I said this can happen in either church.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

It is actually quite simple. In the United States, there is a built-in anti-Catholic bias. This has to do with the fact that the United States was largely settled by the English, and we inherited their anti-Catholicism. In the 19th century, American Evangelical Fundamentalism took off, with its hatred of Mary, and insistence on Sola Fide. What we have as a result is when one says “Christian” what is thought of is “Protestant.” Now when I was a Protestant, I was definitely taught the OSAS heresy, which basically says "Say the sinners prayer, and if I go out and rape, pillage, murder, and plunder, it does not matter, because “I was saved.” Now try looking at this through “non-believer glasses.” If you are a “good person” (which is to mean, basically civil) you don’t beat people up, you let bygones be bygones, etc, but dont say a little prayer, you are still going to Hell. But if you are the most vile person ever, and you pray the sinners prayer, you get to go to heaven, even without any kind of true conversion of heart. After all “faith alone” means just that: no works at all are needed. With this kind of perception, God does not appear just, but rather arbitrary. As long as your faith community (this is a more accurate description than the word “church”) espouses “faith alone” it contributes to this skewed perception of the Gospel. This view cannot be held with the teachings of the Church. Faith is not enough. We are saved by grace alone. Grace from God gives us faith and permits us to do works that are truly pleasing to God.

this description of my church is about as accurate as those who say Catholics worship statues and believ Mary is their redeemer. It is a caricature a slander a lie and I hope you will permit me to correct you as Im sure as a good Catholic you do not wish to spread lies.

 

[CWBetts]

this description of my church is about as accurate as those who say Catholics worship statues and believ Mary is their redeemer. It is a caricature a slander a lie and I hope you will permit me to correct you as Im sure as a good Catholic you do not wish to spread lies.

I am not saying this is how non-denominational Christianity IS, but rather, how it is perceived by the world. You know as well as I that perceptions and truth are not the same. For example, I thought that the Pope was the anti-Christ for many years.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

I am not saying this is how non-denominational Christianity IS, but rather, how it is perceived by the world. You know as well as I that perceptions and truth are not the same. For example, I thought that the Pope was the anti-Christ for many years.

you stated many things as if you believed them to be fact. then you say that it is not how it really is but how it is perceived. Could it be that if people who know better(like you) didnt spread falsehoods as facts that the general perception might be more truthful. the same is true for people who repeatedly state falsehoods about your faith. then we waist our time arguing straw-men rather than understanding the truth about each of our beliefs.

 

[CWBetts]

you stated many things as if you believed them to be fact. then you say that it is not how it really is but how it is perceived. Could it be that if people who know better(like you) didnt spread falsehoods as facts that the general perception might be more truthful. the same is true for people who repeatedly state falsehoods about your faith. then we waist our time arguing straw-men rather than understanding the truth about each of our beliefs.

I was VERY CLEAR that I was presenting PERCEPTIONS. Perhaps it would be good for you to actually read the entire post before you start accusing me of being a liar.